OHCHUTE 0
CBO March 8th 2013 Report: The deficit is becoming less of a problem every year.
By
ShcShc11, in Speakers Corner
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rushmc 18
QuoteOH OK, I get it. More deficit equals better GDP. No wonder we're spending money like crazy. Why not just give every family in the US a million dollars. This way our deficit would go up and people would have enough money to buy gas and food and items made in China. Plus families could afford to pay even higher prices for college tuition.
Here I was worried we were getting into too much debt. My bad.
this is the thought process the left has been working on for decades
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
ShcShc11 0
Quote
CBO reports are considered to be most trusted sources in terms of pure economic numbers.
Cheers!
Shc
If that is the case, then Obamacare must be ended because of the lie that it is
The CBO reported that the ACA (aka Obamacare) reduces the debt over the 10 years period.
You do know I actually read these reports right?
See my previous posts on the CBO numbers on ACA savings (i.e: where the numbers come from, what the numbers mean, how some news did not understand the accounting part of some of the numbers).
Cheers!
Shc
ShcShc11 0
QuoteOH OK, I get it. More deficit equals better GDP. No wonder we're spending money like crazy. Why not just give every family in the US a million dollars. This way our deficit would go up and people would have enough money to buy gas and food and items made in China. Plus families could afford to pay even higher prices for college tuition.
Here I was worried we were getting into too much debt. My bad.
A deficit during zero-bound economy and a deficit during full-employment economy is very different.
During zero-bound, a $ spent gives GDP output upwards of 1.1. The IMF's latest report on multiplier effects estimated even more to around 1.7.
Full-employment deficit is probably around 0.3-0.6.
Remember that in spite of globalization, 85-90% is still spent on the States meaning the money I spend is your income hence a deficit in an economy in no way resembles to a personal credit card debt.
Cheers!
Shc
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteOH OK, I get it. More deficit equals better GDP. No wonder we're spending money like crazy. Why not just give every family in the US a million dollars. This way our deficit would go up and people would have enough money to buy gas and food and items made in China. Plus families could afford to pay even higher prices for college tuition.
Here I was worried we were getting into too much debt. My bad.
this is the thought process the left has been working on for decades
Perhaps that's why the economy improved during the Clinton and Obama presidencies, and tanked during GWBs.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
I have to admit that I am confused by everything that you are trying to say. The American taxpayer has a budget item that is interest on debt: 5th largest item here: http://www.usdebtclock.org Looks like it is an obligation that we have to pay. How is this different than credit card debt?
rushmc 18
QuoteQuote
CBO reports are considered to be most trusted sources in terms of pure economic numbers.
Cheers!
Shc
If that is the case, then Obamacare must be ended because of the lie that it is
The CBO reported that the ACA (aka Obamacare) reduces the debt over the 10 years period.
You do know I actually read these reports right?
See my previous posts on the CBO numbers on ACA savings (i.e: where the numbers come from, what the numbers mean, how some news did not understand the accounting part of some of the numbers).
Cheers!
Shc
That was when Obama was trying to get it passed
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2013/02/11/cbo-skeptical-about-obamacare
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
airdvr 197
We can spend our way out of debt. I need to tell my credit card company to up my limit. 
Please don't dent the planet.
Destinations by Roxanne
Destinations by Roxanne
ShcShc11 0
QuoteI have to admit that I am confused by everything that you are trying to say. The American taxpayer has a budget item that is interest on debt: 5th largest item here: http://www.usdebtclock.org Looks like it is an obligation that we have to pay. How is this different than credit card debt?
We have to look debt proportional to our overall GDP potential (which is only maximized when employment is full).
My spending is your income.
Essentially, if this was a credit card, every dollar you spend, the credit card is paying you 1.2-1.8x more income.
Ofc, credit cards don't do that. They charge you ridicilous amount of interest to keep you in debt.
To take the classic example, America never did pay off the debt from World War II — in fact, our debt doubled in the 30 years that followed the war. But debt as a percentage of G.D.P. fell by three-quarters over the same period.
In fact, there are portions of debt from the Great Depression which are STILL not paid to this day. But it doesn't matter because it makes for an insignificant fraction (1/10 of a penny on a dollar).
Foreign countries (including Canada) has this obsession to look down to U.S debt yet the U.S have overall a healthier budget outlook than their respective country.
Cheers!
Shc
The deficit is becoming less of a problem. Debt incurred already is what worries me
My wife is hotter than your wife.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
QuoteQuoteOH OK, I get it. More deficit equals better GDP. No wonder we're spending money like crazy. Why not just give every family in the US a million dollars. This way our deficit would go up and people would have enough money to buy gas and food and items made in China. Plus families could afford to pay even higher prices for college tuition.
Here I was worried we were getting into too much debt. My bad.
this is the thought process the left has been working on for decades
Because Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr. were frugal? I seem to recall Ronnie outspending the USSR, Bush Sr raising taxes to reduce the deficit, and Bush Jr leading us into a massive economic hole. Both of the 2-termers left office with much larger debts than they inherited.
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
rushmc 18
Both of the 2-termers left office with much larger debts than they inherited.
Blues,
Dave
Blues,
Dave
Didnt like that either
And Obama has dug a deeper hole than all Presidents combined in less than 5
Your point?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rehmwa 2
QuoteBecause Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr. were frugal? I seem to recall Ronnie outspending the USSR, Bush Sr raising taxes to reduce the deficit, and Bush Jr leading us into a massive economic hole. Both of the 2-termers left office with much larger debts than they inherited.
so, by SHCSHC's philosophies, we are in great economic shape as a result
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteBoth of the 2-termers left office with much larger debts than they inherited.
So did Clinton. When the budget was "balanced" it was "balanced" with borrowed money. See here:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
These are the figures while Clinton was in office:
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 (Clinton's budget)
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66 (pre-Clinton)
Enough of the bullshit romancing of either party. When a "balanced budget" means debt increasing by billions, that means there's cheating afoot.
Except for 1951, 1956 and 1957, national debt has gone up every year since 1950.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
OHCHUTE 0
All I know is when I've borrowed the money I have a good time spending it. I'm having a real bad time when I have to pay it back. If I don't have to pay it back then I can say I had a real good time spending the borrowed money. If I die with debts, yet have no heirs then I'm good. If I die and leave debt to heirs, then my heirs are not so good. So its really a matter of principle on how much debt I have and if I have heirs.
In this case America has heirs. Children that will have to pay for others excesses. Hence: America has no principles.
In this case America has heirs. Children that will have to pay for others excesses. Hence: America has no principles.
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteBoth of the 2-termers left office with much larger debts than they inherited.
So did Clinton. When the budget was "balanced" it was "balanced" with borrowed money. See here:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
These are the figures while Clinton was in office:
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 (Clinton's budget)
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66 (pre-Clinton)
Enough of the bullshit romancing of either party. When a "balanced budget" means debt increasing by billions, that means there's cheating afoot.
Except for 1951, 1956 and 1957, national debt has gone up every year since 1950.
Did you ever take a calculus course? Do you know what derivatives are (in the math sense)?
zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/debt/US-national-debt-GDP.png
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 1,623
QuoteAll I know is when I've borrowed the money I have a good time spending it. I'm having a real bad time when I have to pay it back. If I don't have to pay it back then I can say I had a real good time spending the borrowed money. If I die with debts, yet have no heirs then I'm good. If I die and leave debt to heirs, then my heirs are not so good. So its really a matter of principle on how much debt I have and if I have heirs.
In this case America has heirs. Children that will have to pay for others excesses. Hence: America has no principles.
I'm sure that folks like you have said the same thing ever since 1846, the last time the US had no national debt. Somehow the country has survived and thrived.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
OHCHUTE 0
QuoteQuoteAll I know is when I've borrowed the money I have a good time spending it. I'm having a real bad time when I have to pay it back. If I don't have to pay it back then I can say I had a real good time spending the borrowed money. If I die with debts, yet have no heirs then I'm good. If I die and leave debt to heirs, then my heirs are not so good. So its really a matter of principle on how much debt I have and if I have heirs.
In this case America has heirs. Children that will have to pay for others excesses. Hence: America has no principles.
I'm sure that folks like you have said the same thing ever since 1846, the last time the US had no national debt. Somehow the country has survived and thrived.
So why not borrow money and give it to all US citizens. Why the suffering. Why are kids in day care. Why are people left to struggle to pay bills. Why not just borrow a lot of money to give away. Why not make every family in the US including gay families and single girls with dogs as pets, multi millionaires. What's holding us back. Hell, if everyone was a millionair there'd be more spending and a much better economy. In fact, during the recent financial crisis, there was so much money floating around that homeless people were buying $700,000 houses. If you think about it, giving away money works....
It's a fake economy anyway.
kallend 1,623
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 18
READ THIS!
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/03/tax-prof-obamacare-tax-increases-are.html
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/03/tax-prof-obamacare-tax-increases-are.html
QuoteTax Prof: ObamaCare Tax Increases Are Double Original Estimate
The Joint Committee on Taxation recently released a 96 page report on the tax provisions associated with Affordable Care Act. The report describes the 21 tax increases included in Obamacare, totaling $1.058 trillion – a steep increase from initial assessment, according to the Tax Prof Blog. The summer 2012 estimate is nearly twice the $569 billion estimate produced at the time of the passage of the law in March 2010.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
ShcShc11 0
QuoteREAD THIS!
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/03/tax-prof-obamacare-tax-increases-are.htmlQuoteTax Prof: ObamaCare Tax Increases Are Double Original Estimate
The Joint Committee on Taxation recently released a 96 page report on the tax provisions associated with Affordable Care Act. The report describes the 21 tax increases included in Obamacare, totaling $1.058 trillion – a steep increase from initial assessment, according to the Tax Prof Blog. The summer 2012 estimate is nearly twice the $569 billion estimate produced at the time of the passage of the law in March 2010.
I already know about it.
Its been proven false and he's using the same sources.
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"The nonpartisan organization released a report that finds the cost of repealing the reform will balloon government deficits by $109 billion between 2013 and 2022. Repealing ACA would be a form of tax to Americans and businessmen.
The CBO's report reveals the practical hurdles to repeal and underscores a growing pattern in which the key stakeholders -- states, medical providers, businesses, insurers and consumer groups -- are moving beyond the partisan squabble to the no-nonsense work of building the market place of 2014, where everyone will be able to purchase affordable insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions."
http://cbo.gov/publication/43471
"What Is the Impact of Repealing the ACA on the Federal Budget?
Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013, CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion"
...
or can also go to this topic about ACA costs:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4288245;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Cheers!
Shc
Here I was worried we were getting into too much debt. My bad.
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