gun culture documentary

[Fassaclack 0]

I don't know if it's the way I write but I seem to be very misunderstood.

I' m not against guns. I don't care for guns. I'm not against our laws but I don't want more of it in MY country. I'm not aware of any reason why our laws should be changed. I like MY country just the way it is.

I don't want to talk about the way things are in the US, it's not my country. They do what they do. But I don't want them to tell us to arm ourselves for self-defense ... I don't feel it's a sane way of living. I feel no need for self-defense since I don't feel in any danger.

There are guns in Canada, I know. I know some individuals do possess handguns but as long as they only use them at the range, I couldn't care less.

I never did or say anything to take away anyone's rights. I only asked someone who recommended Canadians to arms themselves why we should and the answers I got did not satisfy me.

My imaginary friend just called you Crazy ... What are you gonna do about it?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm not against our laws but I don't want more of it in MY country. I'm not aware of any reason why our laws should be changed. I like MY country just the way it is.

Your country? Who the fuck do you think you are? Justin Trudeau? This is not YOUR country. This is OUR country.

Once again you come off as someone who is very uninformed as the actual laws of this country regarding firearms. If you actually knew the laws, you would not be making these claims of "I don't know how to get a handgun", you would know the exact process someone needs to go through in order to legally obtain a handgun. Plus you would not be making these claims of "As long as they use it on a firing range", because you would know the actual laws that law abiding firearms owners must follow. Finally if you actually knew the laws regarding firearms in Canada, you would know why certain aspects of the existing laws are offensive and would understand why some (not all) aspects of the existing laws are being asked to be changed.

Get informed, learn the actually laws regarding firearms of this country.

By the way criminals DO NOT follow the firearms laws.
That is one of the reasons why we call them criminals.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Fassaclack 0]

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I'm not against our laws but I don't want more of it in MY country. I'm not aware of any reason why our laws should be changed. I like MY country just the way it is.

Your country? Who the fuck do you think you are? Justin Trudeau? This is not YOUR country. This is OUR country.

OMG! You're gonna take offense of anything I write. You live in it? It's yours too! Happy? Have a good day.

My imaginary friend just called you Crazy ... What are you gonna do about it?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

All I ask is that you inform yourself of the actual firearms laws because you are showing clear evidence that you do not know them.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Fassaclack 0]

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Once again you come off as someone who is very uninformed as the actual laws of this country regarding firearms. If you actually knew the laws, you would not be making these claims of "I don't know how to get a handgun", you would know the exact process someone needs to go through in order to legally obtain a handgun.

You're right: If I knew, I wouldn't say that I don't know!!! BTW, it's not that I don't know HOW it's that I don't WHERE as in hunting shops around here sell hunting riffles not handguns or assault weapons. And like I said, I'm sure if I looked for it I'd find it. Get over yourself.

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Finally if you actually knew the laws regarding firearms in Canada, you would know why certain aspects of the existing laws are offensive and would understand why some (not all) aspects of the existing laws are being asked to be changed.

Offensive to you. If you feel so strongly that I (who never planned to own any gun) should know, go ahead. Explain. But first, get off your horse cowboy, I'm not at all impressed by the way you try and "explain" or force your point of view.

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By the way criminals DO NOT follow the firearms laws.
That is one of the reasons why we call them criminals.

Wow! Where did THAT come from?

My imaginary friend just called you Crazy ... What are you gonna do about it?

[rehmwa 2]

I know this started by you thinking someone was telling you you had to have guns for protection - I think that was a mis read, but no one likes to be told what to do. But here are a few snippets from your posts, maybe you can see how people got rubbed the wrong way - they pretty much stereotype gun owners, ignore the posts by owners, and advocate an outside agency 'controlling' how your private citizens are ALLOWED to own a simple piece of property. It's certainly a problem with misreading and the issues with the written word. But if you truly don't want to restrict the rights of citizens (in any country) then you have a lot of conflict between your intent and your statements.



Rushmc: I don't mean to offend you but fear seems to take a lot of place in your life. (Belittles gun owners as scared - that the ONLY reason to have a gun is fear, not appreciation of the item, nostalgia, fun, etc.)

No fear of guns, no need for guns. (Belittles gun owners as scared again.)

I feel safer knowing that "I want one" is not a good enough reason to let someone have a handgun or an assault riffle. ("Let Someone" indicates you think government should decide instead of the individual for themself)

But don't you dare tell us Canadians that we need guns for self-defense. That is YOUR opinion and it doesn't belong in MY country. ("My Country" I think a lot of fellwo Canadians would twitch at that. I doubt anyone directly told you that you must have guns either, just that registration has resulted in taking them away from those that individually wished to keep them - or at least a very hostile local environment for a legal owner)

angry idiots....... .humans are basically lazy (I have no additional comment here. it's a general slam on people)

individuals do possess handguns but as long as they only use them at the range, I couldn't care less.....I never did or say anything to take away anyone's rights. (-----As long as they only use them like I say, but I don't want to take away rights---- do you see the conflict in this statement and what is REALLY being said?)

that's all

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[CanuckInUSA 0]

You have admitted you do NOT know our laws regarding firearms, This is unfortunate because you are letting your personal bias dictate your views. As I have said, there are some aspects of the laws which are perfectly acceptable and very few if any are calling for these to be changed. But there are other aspects which are offensive. But since you do NOT know the laws, you allow your personal prejudices to dictate your views.

Want to know one of the most offensive aspects of our current firearms law. Bill C-68 gives the police the ability to enter the homes of licensed firearms owners any time they want without a warrant and search these homes. If you can not see why law abiding firearms owners view this as offensive, then ... well ... let's just say your view and my views of "freedom" are very very very different. Want to search my home ... get a warrant ... and before you tell me "this would never happen". Wrong. It has happened, it does happen.

There are numerous other "offensive" aspects of our laws. Like how the government is allowed into the bedrooms of licensed firearms owners. How the licensed firearms owner instantly becomes a criminal if something regarding their paper work lapses for one day, how the government will deny people the right to apply for a license if they have been laid off of their job within the last two years, so on and so forth. But since you do NOT know the law you are not aware of it's faults and you allow your prejudices to dictate your debate.

I've said it before and I will say it again. Please educate yourself on the actual firearms law of this country. Once you know the actual law, you will know what parts of it are good and what parts should be changed.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Fassaclack 0]

Yeah. I understand your point but it leaves me with an impression that people are wayyyyy too sensitive about this subject to be able to carry an intelligent conversation. When you get to the point that people are offended by "my" country, it gets wayyyyyy too ridiculous to go any further. See you on another thread.

My imaginary friend just called you Crazy ... What are you gonna do about it?

[rushmc 18]

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Yeah. I understand your point but it leaves me with an impression that people are wayyyyy too sensitive about this subject to be able to carry an intelligent conversation. When you get to the point that people are offended by "my" country, it gets wayyyyyy too ridiculous to go any further. See you on another thread.

Other people are way to sensitive?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

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Please educate yourself on the actual firearms laws in Canada. You sound very uninformed. There are some aspects of our laws I think are perfectly reasonable, things like requiring mandatory training on how to safely handle the firearm as well as the need to pass the written and practical exams with a mark of 80% or better is perfectly acceptable. Even the idea of a mandatory criminal background check and a waiting period is acceptable. But there are other aspects of Bill C-68 that are extremely offensive and only if you know the actual laws will you begin to understand the problems law abiding firearms owners have them.

I'm interested in your opinion of the laws in canada relating to firearms, can you please expand on what aspects of C-68 you find extremely offensive? I don't know about the firearms laws in Canada and am genuinely interested in your thoughts on this matter.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Post #58 of this thread outlines the most offensive things I have with Bill C-68.

1) The ability to search homes without a warrant.
2) Allowing the state into the bedrooms of firearms owners.
3) The firearms owner becomes an instant criminal the day any of their paperwork expires.
4) Unable to apply for a license if they have been laid off of work in the last 2 years.

There are others, but these are the one's at the top of my list.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Skyrad 0]

Yea I wouldn't be to happy with those either. I've never needed to know anything about Canadian firearms law before but your post inspire me to start doing some reading on it, unbelievable some of the restrictions on you, in fact in some areas we have greater freedom in the UK. I can't believe you can't own a suppressor in Canada for example or bullpup designs.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Its amazing what a little hands on experience and education can do for people who are ant guns. Amber Lyon the reporter posted a video of herself at a range today on Facebook, this is what she wrote under it:

'My first time shooting a gun. I was quite nervous at first since I've only witnessed the negative effects of guns in my reporting over the years, but now I'm getting more comfortable and going to be purchasing one for personal protection.'

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[raveninca 0]

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Post #58 of this thread outlines the most offensive things I have with Bill C-68.

1) The ability to search homes without a warrant.
2) Allowing the state into the bedrooms of firearms owners.
3) The firearms owner becomes an instant criminal the day any of their paperwork expires.
4) Unable to apply for a license if they have been laid off of work in the last 2 years.

There are others, but these are the one's at the top of my list.

I will admit that I am not a gun owner but I have fired a few in my time. I can't see me going out and buying one anytime in the future because that would cost to many jumps but maybe someday. With that said I was a little concerned about the list that you listed so I did a little research. Here is the part of the firearms act that you are talking about in your first two points, I think...

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Inspection of dwelling-house

104. (1) An inspector may not enter a dwelling-house under section 102 except

(a) on reasonable notice to the owner or occupant, except where a business is being carried on in the dwelling-house; and

(b) with the consent of the occupant or under a warrant.
Marginal note:Authority to issue warrant

(2) A justice who on ex parte application is satisfied by information on oath

(a) that the conditions for entry described in section 102 exist in relation to a dwelling-house,

(b) that entry to the dwelling-house is necessary for any purpose relating to the enforcement of this Act or the regulations, and

(c) that entry to the dwelling-house has been refused or that there are reasonable grounds for believing that entry will be refused

may issue a warrant authorizing the inspector named in it to enter that dwelling-house subject to any conditions that may be specified in the warrant.

From reading that it looks like you do in fact need a warrant if you do not consent to a search from an inspector...or at the very least they have to give you notice, I have to assume that means that they can't just knock on your door and search your house but how much notice do they have to give you and by what means? Also under the warrant section it points out that that is the course of action when someone refuses entry. I could be wrong but can you point out some cases where inspectors have just knocked on someones door and searched their house without consent or a warrant? That truly is scary if true.

The other thing I noticed is that the act only says that an "inspector" can search your house or business but does not say who an inspector is. Are the police officially designated "inspectors" or is it a government employee? Here is the quote from the act regarding inspectors..

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Definition of “inspector”

101. In sections 102 to 105, “inspector” means a firearms officer and includes, in respect of a province, a member of a class of individuals designated by the provincial minister.

Your #3 point is kind of picking at straws really because technically if you fail to pay a parking ticket in time a warrant can be issued for your arrest as well. We all know how well our gov is at keeping records, just look at the long gun registry, estimated that over 70% weren't registered and I never heard of anyone being charged for it.

#4 your right, that bothers me as well since that should not matter one way or the other.

And please don't take offense to my rebuttal of your points. I don't know the laws and I'm just trying to understand something that might apply to me in the future. Like I said above I have no bone in this fight but I was a little concerned about the first two things in your list as I don't think anyone has the right to enter your home without just cause or a warrant. Forgive me if I don't take your word as truth as it has been proven over and over again that "facts" can be twisted and misunderstood to support someones opinion.

Again from my reading of that section it seems that no one can just knock on your door and search your house. If this is not the case than can you please tell me of some cases that happened? I am very concerned if we have in fact gone down this slippery slope.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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can you please tell me of some cases that happened

Jessie Sansone was arrested, his children were seized by family services and the Sansone house was searched without a warrant.

What was Jessie's crime? His 4 year old daughter drew a picture while in school with her crayons of a man holding what appeared to be a gun and when asked who was that? The four year old child responded "It's my daddy fighting bad guys and monsters". For that Mr Sassone's civil rights were abused and when the school's superintendent was asked "Didn't you over react", his response was "No, we will do it again because we co-parent these children".

Oh and what sort of gun did the police find in the home after their warrantless search? They found a nerf gun. What a joke.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[raveninca 0]

I actually remember that story from last summer but it didn't really go down the way you describe though. The little girl said that the picture was her dad KILLING bad guys and the other fact is that her father is a convicted felon who is prohibited from owning any firearms. So this was certainly not your average legal gun owner that's for sure.

I do agree that the police way over reacted and should of gotten better information and at least a warrant first but the cops screw up all the time, they even came out and admitted that they screwed up. I don't think this is indicative of how legal gun owners are treated in our country, or at least my neck of the woods anyway. Also didn't the cops say that they arrested him and searched his home on grounds of possible child endangerment and not the firearms act?

[aphid 0]

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Again from my reading of that section it seems that no one can just knock on your door and search your house. If this is not the case than can you please tell me of some cases that happened? I am very concerned if we have in fact gone down this slippery slope.

Here is a link for you that should eliminate the hyperbole of soapbox posturing. You may judge for yourself regarding the interaction between Mr. Sansonse and the police.

http://www.wrps.on.ca/sites/default/files/Publications/SansonseReport-Final.pdf

[raveninca 0]

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Again from my reading of that section it seems that no one can just knock on your door and search your house. If this is not the case than can you please tell me of some cases that happened? I am very concerned if we have in fact gone down this slippery slope.

Here is a link for you that should eliminate the hyperbole of soapbox posturing. You may judge for yourself regarding the interaction between Mr. Sansonse and the police.

http://www.wrps.on.ca/sites/default/files/Publications/SansonseReport-Final.pdf

Thanks for the link, that report clears up quite a bit of my questions about that case. If I were that teacher I would of probably done the samething if I thought one of my students could possibly have access to a gun. I would of passed the info on to the cops just like they did with the child's best interests in mind. Now what the cops did with that info is another matter all together. Mr. Sansonse also gave permission for the police to search his house so no need for a warrant. To me this was all a huge misunderstanding that got blown way out of proportion and as soon as people realized it everything was dropped. Again I will ask is there any cases that someone can reference that saw police or an "inspector" enter and search a legal gun owners home just because he is a legal gun owner?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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her father is a convicted felon who is prohibited from owning any firearms

Yes this is true Jessie Sansone has a criminal record (for a non-gun related crime when he was a young adult), he served his time and yes he is prohibited from owning firearms. Well all indications are that he has attempted to reform his life and least in my mind owning a nerf gun is not a crime. I didn't bring up his past because I was not aware that having a criminal record allowed the authorities to violate Mr Sansone's civil rights.

Want more? Bruce Montague purposely allowed his firearms license to expire in order to challenge Bill C-68 and how did the Ontario Government respond? They confiscated his house. Mr Montague never used his firearms in a crime and yet here the government was confiscating his property because he had the nerve to stand up to them. Then again the Ontario Government is not exactly the model for a well run Provincial government.

Want more? I can't remember his name but there was a terminally ill gun collector in Toronto's who failed to renewed his firearms registration while he lay sick and dying in a Toronto hospice. What did the police do? They broke down the door of his Toronto home, broke the locks of his secured gun lockers and proceeded to cart all these firearms away. Oh and want to know the real crazy thing about this story? Who was there to report what the police were doing on live TV? Oh it was none other than a CBC camera crew. The cops told the CBC about their confiscation plans ahead of time so that the CBC could be there to tell the story about what a horrible this man was for having all those guns in his home. The man has since died ... so he no longer has any use for his collection. But these are just a few samples.

But I am sure these examples are not good enough ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Here is a link for you that should eliminate the hyperbole of soapbox posturing.

The man was arrested for a drawing his 4 year old daughter drew.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[raveninca 0]

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But I am sure these examples are not good enough ...

I'm just trying to understand the laws that I live under, just like you told others to do in this thread, and now that I challenge what you say you come back with a remark like that? I thought you actually wanted to have an intellectual, grown up convesation.

I pointed out some flaws in your story and then someone posted up a link to the official report which contradicted everything you said about the case and now you want to talk about expired registration? That my friend is

Like I said above my real concern is if police or inspectors can knock on your door and conduct a warrant less search, which I don't think they can as you have said. I could care less about the other things in your list as I so pointed out earlier, btw if what you are saying is true about letting registration expire then I agree with you on that point but as of right now your creditably has pretty much gone out the window after your last example was shot down and your response to that was to change the subject and then end it off with a smart ass comment followed by I guess I thought I was talking to someone who could be un-bised and open minded but it is quite obvious now that is not the case.

[rehmwa 2]

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Yeah. I understand your point but it leaves me with an impression that people are wayyyyy too sensitive about this subject to be able to carry an intelligent conversation.

well, it is Speaker's Corner - Welcome to the pit!!!

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[raveninca 0]

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Here is a link for you that should eliminate the hyperbole of soapbox posturing.

The man was arrested for a drawing his 4 year old daughter drew.

That's incorrect. He was arrested after the teacher interviewed the child, the child described the gun in detail and then told her teacher that she had access to it at home. After that information was passed onto police was when he was arrested. That is much more than just drawing a picture. You really should read the report, educate yourself as you say about the case before you start stating things that are not true.

[raveninca 0]

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Yeah. I understand your point but it leaves me with an impression that people are wayyyyy too sensitive about this subject to be able to carry an intelligent conversation.

well, it is Speaker's Corner - Welcome to the pit!!!

That's what I keep reminding myself as well

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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You really should read the report

I just read it now. I was not aware that Mr Sansone told the police he did not object to them searching his home. For this, what I originally wrote, I was obviously incorrect. I guess Mr Sansone did not fear the police searching his home because he knew there was nothing illegal in the home. But this whole Sansone incident is just one example of where society is going with their gun paranoia where teachers call the police before talking to the parents.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over