If Biden feels the double barel shotgun is the best weapon for defense,then why doesn't the secret sevice carry them?

[billvon 2,396]

>If the double barrel is the best then why don't LE or the secret service employ them.

Because they don't use their weapons to protect themselves. They use them to protect their principals.

[rehmwa 2]

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Granny had on in the Beverly Hillbillies. It was good enough for Granny.

and loaded with salt - hillbilly or not, that's a pretty good message - don't kill 'em, but they will hurt and sting a lot


Edit: of course, if you did that today you'd be sued for 'intent to sting', and the enviros would sue you for not filling out an impact statement for using salt

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[toolbox 0]

If thats what Granny likes,then thats what Granny should have.
But if Granny wants an AR15 then she should have one of those as well.
A 223 cal round would be better at getting small varmits for the stew pot as they would be far less likely to obliterate the critters like a 12 gauge would.
I loved that show! My favorite episode was when Jethro played Robin Hood in the park and ran into the hippy bikers.

[toolbox 0]

>Because they don't use there weapons to protect themselves.They use them to protect their principals.

You are making a pun right,because cops use their weapons to protect themselves as they enforce the law.
If a perp doesn't use threat of deadly force when interacting with the cops,then the cops are not suppose to shoot them in selfdefense.
But as we both know cops make mistakes,and blaze away on unarmed people,like the women in the pickup delivering papers in california who were mistaken for the ex cop nutcase.

[billvon 2,396]

>You are making a pun right,because cops use their weapons to protect
>themselves as they enforce the law.

?? Uh, right - but a cop uses his gun differently than homeowners do.

[rushmc 18]

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>You are making a pun right,because cops use their weapons to protect
>themselves as they enforce the law.

?? Uh, right - but a cop uses his gun differently than homeowners do.

Are you telling us they dont aim before they pull the trigger?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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>You are making a pun right,because cops use their weapons to protect
>themselves as they enforce the law.

?? Uh, right - but a cop uses his gun differently than homeowners do.

Are you telling they dont aim before they pull the trigger?

I'm still confused - are cops "good" and therefore they need special weapons? or are cops 'crooked and evil' and therefore we should despise and hate them? or are cops old west cowboys and should always approach a criminal man to man by stripping down weapons until it's a fair fight?


I can't figure out which angry stereotype I should be using for context in this discussion.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[toolbox 0]

>but a cop uses his gun differently that homeowners do.

Not really,they point and squeaze the trigger.
The big issue is why use a pump if the double barrel is better?
The answer is that the pump action shot gun holds more rounds, and is from my experience, easier to wield than big old long ass double barrel shotguns are.
These are the same reasons most people prefer pumps over double barrel for hunting,defense,or sport shooting.
I would love to own a nice 12 gauge pump,but I would still prefer my pistol, because it is far easier to use in close quarters,and I do not want to shoot someone who is say at the end of a long hallway, unless they are holding a gun as well,or are advancing on myself or others.
If a home invader is advancing on another person in the house, say across the living room,then using a 12 gauge of any type could quite possibly hit both the perp and the innocent person.
Hand guns are far less powerful,but are also far better at placing fire onto specific targets and not hitting evrything close with a wall of lead.
Just my preference,and once again I hope I will never have to actually fire my weapon at someone.

[billvon 2,396]

>I'm still confused - are cops "good" and therefore they need special weapons?

Cops do a different job and thus need different tools.

Are you "good" and thus need a different parachute than your average pilot? Or do you just do something different with it?

[toolbox 0]

like captain kirk,he was a intergalactic cowboy right?

[billvon 2,396]

>The big issue is why use a pump if the double barrel is better?

Reliability, size, accuracy, take your pick. Or you could use a pump action if you prefer.

>These are the same reasons most people prefer pumps over double barrel for
>hunting,defense,or sport shooting.

That's great. Sounds like your opinion is that a pump action shotgun is preferable to a double barrel for defense. Good thing you're not a politician or people would be telling you what an idiot you are for thinking that, and that you clearly know nothing about guns. ("If pump action shotguns are the best weapon for defense, then why doesn't the secret sevice carry them?")

[devildog 0]

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>but a cop uses his gun differently that homeowners do.

Not really,they point and squeaze the trigger.
The big issue is why use a pump if the double barrel is better?
The answer is that the pump action shot gun holds more rounds, and is from my experience, easier to wield than big old long ass double barrel shotguns are.
These are the same reasons most people prefer pumps over double barrel for hunting,defense,or sport shooting.
I would love to own a nice 12 gauge pump,but I would still prefer my pistol, because it is far easier to use in close quarters,and I do not want to shoot someone who is say at the end of a long hallway, unless they are holding a gun as well,or are advancing on myself or others.
If a home invader is advancing on another person in the house, say across the living room,then using a 12 gauge of any type could quite possibly hit both the perp and the innocent person.
Hand guns are far less powerful,but are also far better at placing fire onto specific targets and not hitting evrything close with a wall of lead.
Just my preference,and once again I hope I will never have to actually fire my weapon at someone.

Buckshot spreads about 1" per yard. In a household shooting, it's no where near a wall of lead, more like the size of a dinner plate at most. There's no reason to hit anyone you don't want to hit other than extremely poor aim -- unless of course, there's someone directly behind/in front of your target, in which case a pistol is still likely to strike them if you can't aim well.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[rehmwa 2]

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>I'm still confused - are cops "good" and therefore they need special weapons?

Cops do a different job and thus need different tools.

Are you "good" and thus need a different parachute than your average pilot? Or do you just do something different with it?

Cops are good in this thread. In other threads they are bad depending on the base subject. I understand, it's the every changing position on cops - this time it supports the position of keeping the drones dis-empowered.

If the topic was tasers, then the position is they are 'racist abusive nuts with napolean complexes'

if the topic is a dangerous wacko get shot on the street then the position is they are 'the cops shouldn't be allowed to shoot the criminal if the criminal only has a knife'

this topic is some politician with a D next to his name says something stupid and we need to protect him ASAP from bad words - so cops need special weapons. I'm not sure how that links, but apparently that's how the thread evolved.


I'm getting the hang of this.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[toolbox 0]

>Are you"good and thus need a different parachute than your average pilot?

Hmmm,I've never thought of using a parachute for self defense before,but I guess you could find some way to suffocate someone or strangle them with it.
If they had a knive,or gun,or were just far bigger,stronger,and more athletic than you were,then they might just hold your own chute against your head and rape your wife while you watch though.
I think using a gun is far easier than using a parachute.

[toolbox 0]

You are right about one inch per yard.
But a while a dinner plate size pattern,say ten-fourteen inches is not my exaggerated wall of lead,it is still bigger than I would want.
I like pistols up close, and that is just my preference.
If someone likes shotguns better then they should use one.
If you like AR15's better,then you should use one of those.
My point in this thread is that there is no one best weapon for all situations,or needs,and Biden has not a clue about what he is talking aboutas we already know.
If the double barrel shotguns were the best,then thats all anyone in any situation would ever want or need,including LE or secret service body gaurds.

[champu 1]

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The big issue is why use a pump if the double barrel is better? The answer is that the pump action shot gun holds more rounds, and is from my experience, easier to wield than big old long ass double barrel shotguns are. These are the same reasons most people prefer pumps over double barrel for hunting, defense, or sport shooting.

You're going overboard. Double barrel shotguns are not well suited for combat/defense, but they're also not some antiquated technology that you only buy if "that's all you can afford." That's absurd. Competition over/under models can set you back 10 times what a remington 870 costs.

[beowulf 1]

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Quote

The big issue is why use a pump if the double barrel is better? The answer is that the pump action shot gun holds more rounds, and is from my experience, easier to wield than big old long ass double barrel shotguns are. These are the same reasons most people prefer pumps over double barrel for hunting, defense, or sport shooting.

You're going overboard. Double barrel shotguns are not well suited for combat/defense, but they're also not some antiquated technology that you only buy if "that's all you can afford." That's absurd. Competition over/under models can set you back 10 times what a remington 870 costs.

Example: http://www.berettausa.com/products/imperial-montecarlo/

Not an over under, the price is why I posted it.

[toolbox 0]

I never said double barrels were obsolete or no longer had a niche in the shooting world.
And hell yes you can drop some serious coin on double barrel guns,but in most situations,and for most people the semi auto and pump guns are preferred over double barrels.
I have seen some extremely nice over unders and alot of less expensive side by sides,but have never shot either.
Most of my shotgun experience has been with 20 gauge and 410 single shots on turkey,grouse and quail,but they can't shoot back,or charge at you with big horns,or claws and teeth.
I'm more of a rifle guy when it comes to long guns anyway.

[davjohns 1]

I scanned the thread. What a mess.

I've shot with Secret Service. They are about like any other law enforcement. They carry a firearm as part of their job and fire when required. Some are enthusiasts. Some couldn't hit the inside of a room.

As a police officer, I was told in the academy to leave the shotgun in the rack most of the time. There was a move to have rifles in the trunks because most didn't consider the shotgun more useful than the sidearm. The one time I pulled the shotgun, I regretted it. For home defense, the shotgun is a viable tool. So is the AR. Pistols are often best...not always.

To the OP...there is some debate over the Secret Service mission. I think Quade said their job is to take a bullet. At that point, they've likely failed in their actual job. If it was to take a bullet, they wouldn't need firearms at all, would they? But there is a good point that Secret Service in the field have a different mission than a homeowner. The point loses traction when you note the guards at the White House carry pistols and ARs and often automatic weapons. THAT mission is very similar to the homeowner. So the OP has a point. Biden stepped in it.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[beowulf 1]

An interesting compilation of videos.

http://youtu.be/jafkVM-jnbE

[rehmwa 2]

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I've shot with Secret Service. They are about like any other law enforcement. They carry a firearm as part of their job and fire when required. Some are enthusiasts. Some couldn't hit the inside of a room.

but can they spell "barrel"?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[toolbox 0]

>but can they spell "barrel"?

I wondered how long it would be before someone called me on the typo.

[rehmwa 2]

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>but can they spell "barrel"?

I wondered how long it would be before someone called me on the typo.

I held out for days on it since the thread was diverging in strange and interesting ways that were entertaining and confusing to follow......

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[regulator 0]

On topic

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83116766/?autoplay=true

[OHCHUTE 0]

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I'm pretty sure I've never seen a secret service man using a double barrel shotgun for a service weapon.
You see them with,submachine guns,semi auto hand guns,semi auto and full auto high capacity rifles in 308 and 5.56 cal,but never seen any footage of them with double barrel shotguns.
I bet they are even using some full auto pistol variants as well.

Because Biden is an idiot.
We already discussed this:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4446629;page=unread#unread

The Secret Circus is not Biden... they have their own rules for being idiots.