If Biden feels the double barel shotgun is the best weapon for defense,then why doesn't the secret sevice carry them?

[Kennedy 0]

Or, if I'd seen it, I could have just posted "What champu said. "

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

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You're hardly alone in that, but it was a lot more enjoyable when you debated or discussed things rather than piss on others.

Hilarious. Anyone on this forum bitching about my posting really ought to look at themselves first.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[toolbox 0]

I know I'm beating a dead horse,but it's rainy and windy, and I am extremely bored, and Quades snide remarks are rather amusing along with his lack of knowledge about the rem 870, which is a pump and holds seven rounds compared to the DOUBLE barrel.
I had some funny images in my mind of these secret service agents standing next to Biden with these huge 26 inch double barrel shotguns before starting the thread.
Don't get me wrong,I am serrious about what the law makers are trying to do to our rights and feel that any gun rights advocates should stay acutely aware of such.
So here we are.

[champu 1]

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followed by more snide comments...

Including yours. Fascinating.

My post was thorough, critical, and direct to the point of being rude. It was anything but snide.

/edited to add: my apologies to you both though. Picture the thread as an old-timey black and white saloon fight and I felt compelled to grab each of you by the shoulders, shake you twice and then slap you across the face.

It's because I care...

[chutem 0]

Just a thought, what if Biden assumed the lady asking the question he responded to was as inexperienced with firearms as his wife? Would the suggestion of an easy to operate two shot weapon that does not require precise aiming possibly be a good idea? He did not say that is the weapon that he would grab in that scenario. A very uncomplicated shotgun with a second round available might be just the thing for someone with little to no experience.

The part I take issue with is the two warning shots. That was clearly not a well thought out reply.

I am not a Biden fan, just trying to see this in a different light. Am I wrong?

[champu 1]

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Just a thought, what if Biden assumed the lady asking the question he responded to was as inexperienced with firearms as his wife? Would the suggestion of an easy to operate two shot weapon that does not require precise aiming possibly be a good idea? He did not say that is the weapon that he would grab in that scenario. A very uncomplicated shotgun with a second round available might be just the thing for someone with little to no experience.

The part I take issue with is the two warning shots. That was clearly not a well thought out reply.

I am not a Biden fan, just trying to see this in a different light. Am I wrong?

He may have assumed that, but I would not recommend someone inexperienced with firearms plan to use one in a home defense situation.

[chutem 0]

I also would not go there. I'm going to suggest a short barreled pump gun of some sort along with some training to an inexperienced firearm purchaser for home defense. This assumes only one weapon in the home and that the need is only for home defense. I'm all for the correct tool for the job and am not suggesting that this is the tool for every situation. As an all around "one gun" suggestion for home defense it's hard to beat a shotgun.

[toolbox 0]

Well I guess that is one way to look at it.
My problem is in Biden telling anyone what they need or should use.
I mean looking down the receiving end of a double barrel shotgun would probably be sufficient to scare the shit out of me while I ran away like the fasted track star the worlds ever seen,but I'm not the type to be sneaking around your house either.
The warning shots advice was definitely retarded for sure.
I personal feel most women could easily handle a AR15 with far less trouble than a big heavy 12 gauge double barrel shot gun.
I can see your point though.

[chutem 0]

I'm with you there, I don't want anyone telling me what weapon I'm "allowed" to defend my family/home.

[Andy9o8 0]

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What the fuck are you two even arguing about anymore? You both sound like fools.

..... Followed by more rambling... followed by more snide comments...

You forgot the rest of the formula:

billvon offers a skydiving analogy
Andy makes a smartass 1-liner
TK says something Communist
Wendy says something "Ann Landers" and we all join hands and eat cookies

[rehmwa 2]

cookies?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[champu 1]

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What the fuck are you two even arguing about anymore? You both sound like fools.

..... Followed by more rambling... followed by more snide comments...

You forgot the rest of the formula:

billvon offers a skydiving analogy
Andy makes a smartass 1-liner
TK says something Communist
Wendy says something "Ann Landers" and we all join hands and eat cookies

You forgot, "kallend bends over backwards to try and point out hypocrisy god damn it, no matter what."

[toolbox 0]

You guys have cookies? How about milk?
I don't want to hold hands with any marxist without hand sanitiser.
But I might make an exception for chocolate chip oatmeal cookies and ice cold milk.

[rhaig 0]

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Because the Secret Service trains to a much higher standard than the average person could ever hope to.

On the other hand I can't think of a single police vehicle I've ever seen that isn't equipped with a shot gun and that includes patrol bikes.

Most of the officers i know now carry a rifle in the front and leave the shotgun in the trunk for the fallback.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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I am nearly 100% confident they are trained and routinely have to prove they are better shots than just about anyone else you've ever met.

they are trained. You're right.

You don't know the people I've met. I know some pretty damn good shots. And they don't have to train do do a bunch of other things like the SS do.

As for the respect aspect... the SS agents need to show a little respect for the position they hold and back off on the whoring and drinking... then they won't degrade the respect they get.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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A lot of DZ.COM gun enthusiasts also think a shotgun is the best weapon for HOME defense. See previously linked thread on the subject.

It's only since Biden made his statement that the self-styled "experts" with BDS seem to have changed their minds. Reflects more negatively on them than on Biden.

See also THIS thread.

a shotgun can be a very effective weapon for home defense. Certainly not a double barreled shotgun as our VP would like us to believe. Certainly not if you randomly shoot it in the air off of your balcony. For while that MIGHT scare off an intruder, it's more likely to land your ass in jail. "but I was doing what VP Biden told me to do" At least Jay Carney has job security... "what VP Biden MEANT to say was..."

If there is one intruder, and one shot hits and stops him, then a shotgun is as effective as it needs to be. If there is more than one, and/or more than one shot is required, than a carbine backed up with a handgun is (in my opinion, as this is all tainted by opinion) the best combination for home defense. Recoil management, shot placement and target acquisition are only important if you need more than one shot. And let's face it... one shot stops are pretty mythical.

(my opinion on shotgun vs rifle for home defense was changed about 2 months ago when I attended some training centered around personal and home defense.)

--
Rob

[kallend 1,618]

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What the fuck are you two even arguing about anymore? You both sound like fools.

..... Followed by more rambling... followed by more snide comments...

You forgot the rest of the formula:

billvon offers a skydiving analogy
Andy makes a smartass 1-liner
TK says something Communist
Wendy says something "Ann Landers" and we all join hands and eat cookies

You forgot, "kallend bends over backwards to try and point out hypocrisy god damn it, no matter what."

There IS a thread from 1996, previously linked, in which the consensus of the gun enthusiasts on DZ.COM at that time reckoned shotguns were perfectly good for home defense.

Now that Biden Derangement Syndrome has set in, the idea has become stupid.

That IS hypocrisy. You too.

You're welcome.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[champu 1]

You don't seem to be paying very close attention to the details of the discussion. You really should.

[rhaig 0]

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You don't seem to be paying very close attention to the details of the discussion. You really should.

If it doesn't agree with his agenda, he ignores it. That kind of kills the buzz of trolling.

--
Rob

[Kennedy 0]

Double barrel vs pump action vs semi auto. Do you understand the difference? If not, read or ask. If so, knock off the nonsense.

There are a number of factors influencing one person's choice of best tool for home defense. These include, but are not limited to: size of residence, construction of residence, type of residence, number of other residents, relevant laws, disposable income, and so many more. The size of residence includes both square footage and size of rooms hallways and door. The construction of internal walls and floors and ceilings are very important to penetration. Type of residence meaning single detached house on forty acres, single detached row house, townhouse, apartment, etc. Whether anyone else should be there is important, but I don't rank it as high because it's necessary to identify your target before shooting; loved ones can surprise you and appear when you don't expect them. Relevant laws are important because you don't want to save your life just to lose the rest of it to te criminal court system.

All of that should be considered when thinking about tools for self defense. I personally like the combination of PolyShok rounds and a pump action shotgun. A lot of that is practical knowledge and personal skills. However I'd certainly never say that should be your only option. Most places I've lived we're small enough that a pistol was my go to choice. The shotgun stayed secure with the wife while I checked things. But then, I had a vest near at hand that had almost as many tools as a patrol officer's duty belt. I like having options. We also rehearsed scenarios of when one, the other, or both of us were home. Response all depends on what stimuli you're presented. Someone waking me up by grabbing me in my bed gets a very different reaction from someone kicking in my front door, which gets a very different reaction than a bump in the night that sets the dog barking. Base on past and present employment, I've shelled out to better prepare myself and my loved ones to deal with a myriad of problems.

I could go on, but I don't think you're reading any more or have any real interest in what anyone different from you thinks.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kallend 1,618]

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You don't seem to be paying very close attention to the details of the discussion. You really should.

I'm paying attention to the hypocrisy of the OP.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ManagingPrime 0]

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and also utilize a few snipers here and there on occasion.

Based on my experience from seeing Obama's speech in Prague I can tell you they use more than a few snipers.

[toolbox 0]

Yea,I know,they use as many as they have room to position.
I was being sarcastic when I said a few snipers,as we know they cover every possible angle and position.

[toolbox 0]

>I'm paying attention to the hypocrisy of the OP.

The hypocrisy is in Bidens stement.
If you are trying to paint the OP with hypocrisy,because in another thread someone said a 12 gauge pump shot gun is good for defense,then you do not know much about guns.
A double barrel shot gun holds two rounds and the Remington 870 holds seven rounds,and as mentioned many times,the sound of the pump action is distinct and would make anyone who knows that sound very nervous if not fill them with sheer terror.
The double barrel shotgun has no pump action and makes far less noise, and the sound is far less distinctive.
The only time the two make the same sound is when they are discharged.
If the double barrel is the best then why don't LE or the secret service employ them.
Hell I do not know anyone who would by a double barrel shotgun for self defense unless that is all they could afford.
I personally prefer a high capacity 45 acp for home defense because they are much easier to wield in tight quarters,and though not as big and powerful as a 12 gauge pump shotgun,they are still very effective at close range,and I'm good at using one.

[wmw999 2,114]

Granny had on in the Beverly Hillbillies. It was good enough for Granny.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)