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regulator

Mayor Bloomberg

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>Why are you guys even debating AA weaps?

Because the OP claimed that there was no such thing as a weapon that could take down an airliner from a mile and a half out and thus Bloomberg was an idiot.



You seem to see what you want to see. The OP did not make this claim. I don't know if you are lying or what? What the OP was saying is that "Assault Weapons" can't take down an airliner from a mile out. And that is true. The weapon you trotted out isn't an "Assault Weapon".



Since gun nuts assure us that "assault weapon" is a meaningless concept, how can you possibly make that claim (unless you want to have it both ways, that is)?
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>Its heavy, cumbersome, heavy, the ammunition is heavy...did I mention it was heavy?

Not if you're Arnold Schwarzenegger. Didn't he fire one one-handed in Terminator 3?
Edited to add - it was an M1919, and he had some help in the form of a shoulder strap. My bad.

>Besides I think just because they were used as anti aircraft guns during WW2 and
>other conflicts doesnt mean that can shoot down a commercial airliner @ a mile and a
>half out.

Agreed; no guarantees there. However, a weapon designed in part as an antiaircraft weapon is going to stand a pretty good chance of doing some damage to aircraft.



----------------------------------------------------

Pretty sure he was shooting an M-60. I dont think arnold could one hand a ma deuce.

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I still claim bloomberg IS an idiot. And if the only argument you can create is that of a ma deuce then you have already failed.

Show me where you can mount optics on a ma deuce


and then show me how you can hit a flying plane at altitude with a semi auto version that isnt as class 3 weapon.


Ill answer it for you: You cant.

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I still claim bloomberg IS an idiot. And if the only argument you can create is that of a ma deuce then you have already failed.

Show me where you can mount optics on a ma deuce


and then show me how you can hit a flying plane with a semi auto version that isnt as class 3 weapon.


Ill answer it for you: You cant.



August 1940, Dornier 17 warplane shot down with standard infanty issue Lee Enfield .303 rifle.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>Why are you guys even debating AA weaps?

Because the OP claimed that there was no such thing as a weapon that could take down an airliner from a mile and a half out and thus Bloomberg was an idiot.



You seem to see what you want to see. The OP did not make this claim. I don't know if you are lying or what? What the OP was saying is that "Assault Weapons" can't take down an airliner from a mile out. And that is true. The weapon you trotted out isn't an "Assault Weapon".



Since gun nuts assure us that "assault weapon" is a meaningless concept, how can you possibly make that claim (unless you want to have it both ways, that is)?



Ah yes some more intentional ignorance. If you will notice I did put it in quotations. It's the term that is widely used even though it was never a classification of weapons. It was made up by the gun banning people to try and make their argument seem more meaningful. I only used it because it was used by Bloomberg. It's generally used to describe a shoulder fired semi automatic weapon, usually an AR15 or AK47 type rifle. Neither of which are advertised as being used to take down airplanes. The Browning M2 is not a shoulder fired weapon.

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even for chuck norris?



Chuck doesn't need to use his shoulder. He just fires it single handed like a handgun!


chuck needs to get his ass to washington and straighten out these wingnuts!
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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even for chuck norris?



Chuck doesn't need to use his shoulder. He just fires it single handed like a handgun!

And also held sideways, for the "badass gangsta" effect.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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even for chuck norris?



Chuck doesn't need to use his shoulder. He just fires it single handed like a handgun!


He emerges from underwater and blasts the fuckers away with it! B|
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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I still claim bloomberg IS an idiot. And if the only argument you can create is that of a ma deuce then you have already failed.

Show me where you can mount optics on a ma deuce


and then show me how you can hit a flying plane with a semi auto version that isnt as class 3 weapon.


Ill answer it for you: You cant.



August 1940, Dornier 17 warplane shot down with standard infanty issue Lee Enfield .303 rifle.


Jets have been brought down by birds too. Let's ban parrots (and others) as pets.
You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

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I still claim bloomberg IS an idiot. And if the only argument you can create is that of a ma deuce then you have already failed.

Show me where you can mount optics on a ma deuce


and then show me how you can hit a flying plane with a semi auto version that isnt as class 3 weapon.


Ill answer it for you: You cant.



August 1940, Dornier 17 warplane shot down with standard infanty issue Lee Enfield .303 rifle.


Jets have been brought down by birds too. Let's ban parrots (and others) as pets.




http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D4vuW6tQ0218&sa=U&ei=boUZUY2hAsmn0gH5voGoCA&ved=0CB4QtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNGnGOhMQLMU9n9Q0NYGluX-JbhwMQ

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Regulator,you are correct. Arnold did not use a heavy 50(Ma deuce)and I for one would like to see anyone on the planet fire a full belt of ammo out of a M2 while holding it one handed without shooting everywhere except the target:D:D:Deven the worlds strongest man would get hurt trying a stunt like that:D:D.
How much drop would you get with a 50BMG at 1 1/2 miles ?
I would guess at least 30ft at 1000 yards.
You are 100 percent correct in your assessment of Bloomberg as well.
I have a friend who used to fly twin otters in africa for a relief organization,and he told me that they put titanium armor under the cockpit and engines because the warlords and malitias over there would shoot at them with AK47's,AK74's,and what ever else they could throw up at him when he was taking off or landing and was only a few hundred feet off the ground.
He said he had never been shot or had lost an engine to gunfire. He said he had squeaked in on fumes a couple of times because of fuel loss from holes in the belly.
The otter is a slow moving sitting duck and with the 100's of take off's and landings he made over there and this is with several guys if not dozens shooting at him with full auto weapons. He said it was scary seeing bullet holes in his plane but said what really scared them was the possibility of RPG's or rockets.

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I still claim bloomberg IS an idiot. And if the only argument you can create is that of a ma deuce then you have already failed.

Show me where you can mount optics on a ma deuce


and then show me how you can hit a flying plane with a semi auto version that isnt as class 3 weapon.


Ill answer it for you: You cant.



August 1940, Dornier 17 warplane shot down with standard infanty issue Lee Enfield .303 rifle.


Jets have been brought down by birds too. Let's ban parrots (and others) as pets.



Non sequitur, as well as an idiotic comment.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I just checked a ballistics chart for the 50BMG round and at 1500 yards the bullet drop is 61 feet out of a 29 inch barrel.
The drop is 76 feet from the 20 inch barrel at 1500 yards.
This is just bullet drop without windage adjustment.
The chart only went out to 1500 yards as I'm sure only a very,very small group of people are able to achieve hits at any further ranges.
Now factor in the altitude and speed of a jet airliner at a range of 2640 yards (1 1/2 mile) and this shot is going to need a shit ton of luck to say the least.
Now the 50BMG is far more powerful and has far more effective range than any of the so called assault weapons rounds,and as stated by regulator before it is very heavy and impractical for use as an assault weapon.

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I still claim bloomberg IS an idiot. And if the only argument you can create is that of a ma deuce then you have already failed.

Show me where you can mount optics on a ma deuce


and then show me how you can hit a flying plane with a semi auto version that isnt as class 3 weapon.


Ill answer it for you: You cant.



August 1940, Dornier 17 warplane shot down with standard infanty issue Lee Enfield .303 rifle.


Jets have been brought down by birds too. Let's ban parrots (and others) as pets.



Non sequitur, as well as an idiotic comment.




He's just trying to keep up with the king of misdirection and idiotic comments. Honestly he's got a long ways to go before he gets up on par with you.

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Kallend both you and billvon seem to have waged your best on this thread and have failed miserably. Use that bright mind of yours and illustrate to me how a person with a semi auto so called 'assault rifle'...and lets be clear a SHOULDER FIRED RIFLE. Shit I'll give you a Barret M107 to use as an example if you want. Show with with graphs and fancy physics how you can not only hit, but take down a commercial airliner AT cruising altitude. If you go chickenshit and bring up a Ma Deuce again you have already failed. All I get from John are snide comments and if I could go inverse on the value added to these conversations I would. This is your opportunity to illustrate to us how smart you are.

I'll be waiting right here homey.


Additional: I've read some posts from john commenting on economics and things like the SEC. He had good insightful commentary. But when it comes to his most adverse enemy: Guns...he flips the switch and goes straight into troll mode. Give me your best because what ive been seeing so far doesnt even come close.

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Kallend both you and billvon seem to have waged your best on this thread and have failed miserably. Use that bright mind of yours and illustrate to me how a person with a semi auto so called 'assault rifle'...and lets be clear a SHOULDER FIRED RIFLE. Shit I'll give you a Barret M107 to use as an example if you want. Show with with graphs and fancy physics how you can not only hit, but take down a commercial airliner AT altitude. .



Who said it has to be "at altitude"? Besides, "at altitude" is meaningless.

Fact is, WARPLANES have been brought down by small caliber rifle fire.

So stop trying to weasel your way out of it.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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There have been very low flying small planes brought down by small arms ground fire durring ww2, but it is rare, and as others have posted,it is what they call the golden bullet.
Hell pot farmers have shot down a helicopter with bow and arrow,so would you say bow and arrows are a substantial threat to high flying aircraft:D:D:D:D:D:DI guess anythings possible eh.
Lets face it,if small arms ground fire were so effective against aircraft then why would the military spend so much more money creating and using SAM's?

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There have been very low flying small planes brought down by small arms ground fire durring ww2, but it is rare, and as others have posted,it is what they call the golden bullet.
Hell pot farmers have shot down a helicopter with bow and arrow,so would you say bow and arrows are a substantial threat to high flying aircraft:D:D:D:D:D:DI guess anythings possible eh.
Lets face it,if small arms ground fire were so effective against aircraft then why would the military spend so much more money creating and using SAM's?



It only takes one counter example to disprove an assertion. I have given you one.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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There is a huge difference between a small WW2 era plane flying low and slow at close range,and a much faster modern jumbo jet that is 1 1/2 miles away.
Bloomberg did say 1 1/2 miles right?
At that range a so called assault rifle round has lost alot of velocity and energy, and might not even punch a hole through a jumbo jet,if you were lucky enough to hit it.
I just checked the chart for the 55grn 223 and at 1000 yards it has dropped to less than 80ft/lbs of energy.
1000 yards is just over 1/2 a mile.
Even my favorite,the 308, is pretty weak at 1 1/2 miles.

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I have a friend who used to fly twin otters in africa for a relief organization,and he told me that they put titanium armor under the cockpit and engines because the warlords and malitias over there would shoot at them with AK47's,AK74's,and what ever else they could throw up at him when he was taking off or landing and was only a few hundred feet off the ground.



Cool job!

To be fair though, the militias over there tend to be coked so far off their tits that they'd have difficulty hitting a barn they were standing inside:P
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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