kallend 1,799 #1 January 2, 2013 By Texas A&M www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jul/13/study-stand-your-ground-laws-dont-deter-crime-to/... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,683 #2 January 2, 2013 On the other hand, "stand your ground" laws _can_ help protect you from obnoxious pizza customers. ================ Man shot at St. Pete pizza joint had been complaining about slow service By Kameel Stanley and Stephen Nohlgren, Times Staff Writers In Print: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 ST. PETERSBURG — Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law has been cited in hundreds of cases. People have used it to justify shooting, stabbing, killing and maiming would-be intruders, romantic competitors and rival gang members. And on Sunday, at a pizza joint in St. Petersburg, a man tried to use it as justification for shooting another customer who was yelling at workers because he wasn't getting his order fast enough. Police said the incident unfolded about 4 p.m. inside the Little Caesars, 3463 Fourth St. N, after Randall White, 49, got mad about his service. Another man in line, Michael Jock, 52, of St. Petersburg admonished White. That "prompted them to exchange words and it became a shoving match," said police spokesman Mike Puetz. White raised a fist. Jock, a concealed-weapons permit holder, pulled out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver. He fired one round, hitting White in the lower torso. The men grappled and the gun fired again, hitting White in roughly the same spot, police said. One bullet lodged in a wall in the restaurant, which was occupied by at least two other people. After the shooting, both men went outside and waited for police. Jock told officers the shooting was justified under "stand your ground," Puetz said. "He felt he was in his rights," Puetz said. "He brought it up specifically and cited it to the officer." ============================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,799 #3 January 2, 2013 If pizza is outlawed, only outlaws will have pizza.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,799 #4 January 2, 2013 www.npr.org/2013/01/02/167984117/-stand-your-ground-linked-to-increase-in-homicide... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,240 #5 January 3, 2013 Hi John, Even you should love this: "Now, researchers who've studied the effect of the laws have found that states with a stand your ground law have more homicides than states without such laws. "Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association, said the laws have been effective and are working exactly as designed." JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #6 January 3, 2013 Does the study show that every increased homicide was a stand your ground killing? If not it just helps prove that the stand your ground law was a good idea because the area was becoming more violent. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,799 #7 January 3, 2013 QuoteDoes the study show that every increased homicide was a stand your ground killing? If not it just helps prove that the stand your ground law was a good idea because the area was becoming more violent. Why don't you read it for yourself.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 January 3, 2013 QuoteOne bullet lodged in a wall in the restaurant, which was occupied by at least two other people. 1st, I'm not sure how two people actually occupied a wall... 2nd, is the author calling a bullet the original person occupying the wall - thus making the two humans the "other" people? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #9 January 3, 2013 Just did, and they never said for a fact that the increase is directly tied to the new law. In both cases, he found nothing. There were small increases in both numbers, but it was hard to tell whether there was really any difference.Quote If you say all of the 600-700 more per year over 23 states are directly related thats only 30 per state, and divided among counties is pretty small increase. Like 1%, and who says the people that committed the homicide under the thinking that it was "justifiable homicide" would have not done it anyways if they were thinking they were really in danger. Also police probbaly reported it more that way. I know when they allowed us to start using a code on our medical reports called EMS assist instead of a regular EMS which is way more detailed and takes longer to do(both accomplish proper reporting) the end of the year run stats started jumping for "EMS assist". So I bet alot has to do with that "We find that there are 500 to 700 more homicides per year across the 23 states as a result of the laws," he said. There are about 14,000 homicides annually in the United States as a whole.*** Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #10 January 3, 2013 QuoteQuoteOne bullet lodged in a wall in the restaurant, which was occupied by at least two other people. 1st, I'm not sure how two people actually occupied a wall... 2nd, is the author calling a bullet the original person occupying the wall - thus making the two humans the "other" people? I was myself AMAZED that there were actually four people in the city that thought Little Cesar's pizza was a good idea. Elvisio "before you buy that crap pizza, use the gun on yourself" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #11 January 3, 2013 We're already boycotting Papa John's & Domino's. 'Taint much left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,683 #12 January 3, 2013 >I was myself AMAZED that there were actually four people in the city that thought >Little Cesar's pizza was a good idea. They must have been drunk. Which might explain it . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #13 January 3, 2013 Quote>I was myself AMAZED that there were actually four people in the city that thought >Little Cesar's pizza was a good idea. They must have been drunk. Which might explain it . . . Or White Castle was closed...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #14 January 5, 2013 Saw this in there: "When you've got a dead body, there's nobody to speak the other side," Megale said. "If that gets out, if people start understanding that, there really is an incentive to shoot to kill rather than shoot to injure." You should always shoot to kill, IMHO, until the threat is stopped.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creep0321 0 #15 January 5, 2013 QuoteSaw this in there: "When you've got a dead body, there's nobody to speak the other side," Megale said. "If that gets out, if people start understanding that, there really is an incentive to shoot to kill rather than shoot to injure." You should always shoot to kill, IMHO, until the threat is stopped. +1Jack of all trades. Military Free Fall Jumpmaster. USA Static-line Jumpmaster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,291 #16 January 5, 2013 If the threat isn't worth killing over, then it's probably not worth shooting over. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #17 January 5, 2013 True, but there are some you really would like to wound and let suffer a little before they go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #18 January 5, 2013 Quote >I was myself AMAZED that there were actually four people in the city that thought >Little Cesar's pizza was a good idea. They must have been drunk. Which might explain it . . . I thought, when you're drunk, pizza was always a good idea. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #19 January 5, 2013 The point of the stand your ground or castle doctrine laws is not a reduction in crime. It is intended to give the victims of the crimes ability to defend themselves with deadly force if necessary without fear of prosecution. How many lawsuits have there been lately where the burgular breaks into a house, gets shot, then presses charges on the homeowner?In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #20 January 5, 2013 QuoteIf the threat isn't worth killing over, then it's probably not worth shooting over. Wendy P. I'll give them a warning shot, and as the slide cycles and the next round is chambered, they'll get the rest. Kinda like this: BANG, BANG,BANG, BANG,BANG, BANG,BANG, BANG,BANG, BANG . . . STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #21 January 5, 2013 Some states, including MD have duty to flee. Yes that's right. You have to run. If you stand and defend and hurt the perp, you can be sued by the perp or the perps heirs. If you can believe it. So having a gun in the house for self defense, as legal, will be of no use if perp breaks in and attempts to kill you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #22 January 5, 2013 Quote Some states, including MD have duty to flee. Yes that's right. You have to run. If you stand and defend and hurt the perp, you can be sued by the perp or the perps heirs. If you can believe it. So having a gun in the house for self defense, as legal, will be of no use if perp breaks in and attempts to kill you. That's why I live in Texas. Its that big ass state that at least uses SOME logic in making and enforcing its laws.See Here. Now - don't crowd . . . wait for your invitation to come to Texas - we have quite enough people here already.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 350 #23 January 6, 2013 Quote How many lawsuits have there been lately where the burgular breaks into a house, gets shot, then presses charges on the homeowner? I don't know, how many have there been? Can you link to any recent incidents? Preferably ones where the burglar actually wins the lawsuit; filing lawsuits is meaningless, as anybody can try to sue for virtually anything, and in no way implies that the party being sued must be guilty of anything. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 350 #24 January 6, 2013 QuoteSo having a gun in the house for self defense, as legal, will be of no use if perp breaks in and attempts to kill you. Can you provide some examples of recent cases where people have been successfully sued or prosecuted for defending themselves in their house against a burglar? I'll be surprised if you can find any. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #25 January 6, 2013 Funny, in Maryland you have to ask the perp what weapon he has first as if he as a 22 pistol, then you have to produce less 22 to defend yourself. No joke. Shoot a perp with a 45 when he's carring a knife, club, or 38 you've violated MD law in using a force greater than what is used against you. Hey bro, what gun you got? I need to decide what to use to defend myself. bla bla bla. law makers have their heads up there ass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense_in_Maryland Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
