President hops on air force one and cost us 3.6 million to go back to his vacation.

[regulator 0]

Why couldnt he take a smaller Lear type jet instead of the AF1. I can understand when he is en route to peace talks and he need his cabinet with him, but just him...couldnt they use a smaller and cheaper alternative?

After all Air Force 1 is a moniker associated with the president. Any subsequent aircraft he rides in becomes air force 1 for the duration of his flight.

[GeorgiaDon 355]

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It's the voice of not understanding. Sure 14 million for his vacation is a drip in the bucket you say, but it's all of this type of spending that they won't cut that's keeping us in this deficit.

I rather suspect that the number being floated around is disingenuous. Perhaps if you took the cost of the plane, salaries for the crew, and all the associated expenses for the year, and divided that number by the number of hours the plane is in the air, you'd arrive at $181,000/hr. But that way of calculating things is deceitful. Should the pilots and other crew get paid only for the hours they are flying, or should they be paid a salary so they are available at all times? Should the President be flown around by hourly wage workers? Where would such pilots and aircrew come from, some temp agency? How do you get a plane like Af1 on a by-the-hour charge? Don't you pretty much have to buy the plane if you want to retrofit it with all the communications and security gear?

Can you point us to an accounting of that $181,000/hr that shows that that is an expenditure over and above the salaries of the crew and security staff, and the cost of the plane, all costs that would still have to be paid even if the plane is sitting on the tarmac?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[lawrocket 3]

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Let's talk abot what better use for the hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars spend on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and what better use for all that money. Education, infrastructure, education, social services, education, education...

Here's where you lose. You're arguing about overspending with people (like me) who think everything is overly spent.

Including on ducation, infrastructure, education, social services, education, education. People like you aren't against government spending, just certain things.

People like me are against government spending in general. People like me think that federal education spending should be slashed. Social services slashed. Military slashed. Medicare slashed. Social security slashed.

Okay. Increase infrastructure - that's part of the whole interstate commerce thing.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DARK 0]

Dosnt his entire staff travel with him? Chief of staff, press secretary all that jazz? Their staff, the press, secret service, army guys who carry footballs?

Sounds like a lot of people to me, airlines have worked out the most efficient way to move large numbers of people is with big planes.

As I said earlier they are not spending this money on his vacation they are spending it to keep the goverment running while he gets to pretend he is on vacation.

How much of a reduction do people think can be had? Could you get it down to 20K an hour? that would be a massive 90%ish reduction and after you spend millions on r+d and vetting and making sure the new way is more efficient and just as safe you might recoup the money you spent on it in a few years and then the tax payer will start saving money but the country will be long gone by then so it whats the point?

[billvon 2,913]

>Why couldnt he take a smaller Lear type jet instead of the AF1.

Well, I suspect a Lear would not be able to support the sort of communications he needs nor have room for things like his family plus a security detail. But something like a CRJ (or more likely a BBJ) would be a lot cheaper than the 747 he uses now, and would likely be big enough for families/security.

[freddysdaddy 0]

Vote more intelligent people in your funny congress next time and there will be no more need for presidents holiday brakes in the future

[cvfd1399 0]

The tax code is 70,000+ pages long, I'm pretty sure you can make a hell of a dent by removing this kind of stuff from there.

[GeorgiaDon 355]

[replyYou're arguing about overspending with people (like me) who think everything is overly spent.

Including on ducation, infrastructure, education, social services, education, education.

]People like me are against government spending in general. People like me think that federal education spending should be slashed. Social services slashed. Military slashed. Medicare slashed. Social security slashed.

Okay. Increase infrastructure - that's part of the whole interstate commerce thing.

[cvfd1399 0]

Why should the government pay for their school, where is personal responsibility? My wife went to a private elementary school all the way through getting her masters without the government paying for her education. Her dad got her through high school, and we paid for the rest on a firefighters salary, and her working her way through odds and end jobs.

[jclalor 12]

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Quote

10 hour flight one way.
AF1 hourly operating cost $181,000.
They bring the backup plane also which doubles cost.
This is not counting the support cargo plane carrying limos, SS vehicles etc.

Its at least going to cost another 3.6 Million to come home that's if he flies right back. If we are looking to cut some lets cut the air force budget that this operates from.

7.2 million for round trip, ooh and hes already done this right before christmas thats another 7.2 mil. 14.4 MILLION for a vacation.... Its good to be a president during a severe deficit.






Less than an hour after Congress and the White House resolved the fiscal cliff, President Obama boarded Air Force One to return to his planned Hawaiian holiday vacation.

He boarded the plane at Joint Base Andrews in Camp Springs, Md., shortly before midnight Wednesday following a New Year’s Day of political drama on Capitol Hill.

The 10-hour overnight flight was scheduled to arrive in Oahu around 5 a.m. local time Wednesday when he will reunite with First Lady Michelle Obama and daughters Sasha and Malia, who have been vacationing there since just before Christmas.

Perhaps you can cite your previous threads complaining about Bush flying back and forth to the ranch in Crawford 77 times on Air Force One.

[rehmwa 2]

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my American students will spend 20 years paying off their student loans.

if you overly subsidize education - then don't be surprise when the cost of getting it skyrockets

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DARK 0]

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The tax code is 70,000+ pages long, I'm pretty sure you can make a hell of a dent by removing this kind of stuff from there.

The tax code is about collecting tax revenue not spending it and I am all for tax simplification but spending cuts and tax cuts are two COMPLETELY different conversations and trying to link the two is just another bullshit way of muddying the waters so that nothing of substance ever happens.

[DARK 0]

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my American students will spend 20 years paying off their student loans.

if you overly subsidize education - then don't be surprise when the cost of getting it skyrockets

This is not evident in the numerous countries that offer public / subsidised education.

Quality, appreciation, waste are all things that can be debated intelligently but there is no evidence that cost increases follow subsidization.

In fact in Ireland its not only subsidized but completely paid for until postgraduate level and if you happen to be one of the people who have to pay full price it still works out far far cheaper in Ireland then in an equivalant university in the US and in many cases cheaper then the US equivalent.

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi 1399,

I agree with your thinking 'somewhat.' IMO we do need to work on getting the deficit lower.

So, have you ever written to your Congressman/woman or either US Senators and told them how you feel?

Just wondering,

JerryBaumchen

[cvfd1399 0]

Letting a bullshit business have a tax break is as bad as giving them money. If everyone paid their fair share as obama himself put it, we could make up some ground in our deficit. Kallend hates giving rich people tax breaks, why should algae farmers have tax breaks, or be given millions outright?


What's fucked up is we can't start leveling the playing field with the rules we have now, if your raise one group they complain, if you raise another's, they complain.

Put it in stone if the government spent their money wisely, and every individual, business, etc paid their fair share(equal amounts in all areas). I would have no problem having paying a huge tax rate to keep this country going.

My issue is they are over spending on useless shit, not tracking where the money is going, handing it out like candy, etc, and they want a certain class to pay for it all, or hand pick businesses to get tax cuts or handouts

[airdvr 207]

Anyone remember Obama turning the auto execs over his knee for flying Lears to DC? Just as lame. Personally I want my president to have all of the assets AF1 brings anywhere in the world he happens to be.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[cvfd1399 0]

Yes I have, and what's funny is I have NEVER received any feedback, not even a generic thank you for your interest, we take pride in our job etc reply email.

[cvfd1399 0]

Have a look around the Internet my idea that him flying back to Hawaii was a abuse of privileges is not the only one.

[billvon 2,913]

>Have a look around the Internet my idea that him flying back to Hawaii was a abuse
>of privileges is not the only one.

Yep. And Bush's 1000+ days of vacation outraged the left. Nothing new to see here.

[Andy9o8 2]

Dude, read the tea leaves. Or the thread. Take your ass-kicking and pack it in.

[lawrocket 3]

I limited it to federal.

States and municipalities can do what they want. Look at how far we've fallen since the Department of Education was made a cabinet post.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

Maybe Congress should do their jobs instead of grandstanding with last minute, late night "heroic efforts" that they know will force the President to round-trip from HI to DC whenever their temper tantrum subsides, If they'd all found a way to compromise 18 months ago, the so-called "fiscal cliff" never would have been invented. If they'd used it as the intolerable consequence it was intended to be, they'd have been compelled to come up with a workable solution months ago. The truth of the matter is the media loves the drama and the politicians love the media, so this stuff is a win-win for both groups. Fire the lot of them imo, get some people in there who are actually willing to do their jobs.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[cvfd1399 0]

Agreed. One term for everything is what I would like to see

[GeorgiaDon 355]

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Why should the government pay for their school, where is personal responsibility? My wife went to a private elementary school all the way through getting her masters without the government paying for her education. Her dad got her through high school, and we paid for the rest on a firefighters salary, and her working her way through odds and end jobs.

Good for her and you, seriously. I also got through my PhD without loans, and started a family in the process, by virtue of my wife 1) working, and 2) enforcing a very strict budget. But, that was 23 years ago, costs of everything have escalated dramatically since then.

The cost of a masters depends very much on the field, which of course I don't know in your wife's case. Some fields require an additional two years of coursework beyond the undergrad, which is survivable. In the hard sciences you have that plus a significant research project, enough to produce a publishable paper in your research discipline. I rarely see a Master's completed in less than 3 years, sometimes more. If you add a PhD on top of that, you have more course work plus enough experimental research for 2-4 papers, so we are typically talking about 5 years on top of the Masters, sometimes as much as 7, working full time on your research.

Now of course we can say that people take this on voluntarily so it should be entirely on them. Two things to consider, though. Loans have to be repaid; without access to loans you would have to have the money for all those years of tuition and living expenses in your pocket before you could even start, as (in the sciences) you'll only be able to earn enough as a TA or at a part-time job to cover part of the costs, and the more time you spend working outside the lab the more years you'll have to put in to get finished. So it is on the student, just spread out and largely deferred until they are finished and working. So without access to loans, very few Americans would undertake such education, yet these are the scientists who are essential to maintain American leadership in biotech and other technology-intensive industries. Secondly, many other countries are investing heavily in the education of their people. Whatever you may think of American exceptionalism, if India and China are producing 10 times the PhDs that we are in high-tech fields, where do you think those industries will be based 20 years from now?

Here's a different way to think of the issue. It costs the US military about 6 million dollars to train a pilot, or 9-12 million for a fighter pilot. For 9 million dollars I can train about 30 PhD biochemists and immunologists, most of whom will end up working in biotech or even starting their own biotech companies. Which is a better investment in the economic productivity of the country, 1 fighter pilot or 30 biochemists and immunologists? Which investment is more likely to grow the economy and add wealth, including tax revenues, to the country?

For that matter, there are educational institutions that train pilots, Embry-Riddle for one. Why not have a system where people pay the cost themselves to get training as a fighter pilot, then the military can hire the best graduates. I bet the cost will come down from 9-12 million, maybe it'll only cost a couple of million. Don't most people have that put aside by the time they are finished high school, anyway?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,913]

> Fire the lot of them imo, get some people in there who are actually willing to do their jobs.

With popular elections you will get exactly the same sort of people in power. "Throw the bums out" just gets you more "bums." We really do have the kind of government we've asked for.