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I said I thought there was a place to make Private Sales subject to the NCIS Check by opening it up to the seller. You're the one calling it a loop hole, I am not. Private sales are private sales.

I have been to many gun shows, not all of course, and all Businesses selling guns had to run an NCIS check for a sale, private gun sales did not happen on the show grounds as it is posted not too, but that is your assertion they are. The gun show producers i spoke with, say that even if the law doesn't require it, their insurance does. They even have staff to wonder and make sure of this. This loop hole, is being sensationalized by Piers and many others.

I am sure some do make a private sale at a show, as in all things, someone will break the rules.

But, why keep the check if the person passed?

Matt



So there is a HUGE loophole that allows disqualified people to buy firearms without a NICS check. Calling it anything but a loophole is intellectually dishonest.



How many deaths can be attributed to your "loophole"?

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I said I thought there was a place to make Private Sales subject to the NCIS Check by opening it up to the seller. You're the one calling it a loop hole, I am not. Private sales are private sales.

I have been to many gun shows, not all of course, and all Businesses selling guns had to run an NCIS check for a sale, private gun sales did not happen on the show grounds as it is posted not too, but that is your assertion they are. The gun show producers i spoke with, say that even if the law doesn't require it, their insurance does. They even have staff to wonder and make sure of this. This loop hole, is being sensationalized by Piers and many others.

I am sure some do make a private sale at a show, as in all things, someone will break the rules.

But, why keep the check if the person passed?

Matt



So there is a HUGE loophole that allows disqualified people to buy firearms without a NICS check. Calling it anything but a loophole is intellectually dishonest.



But don't be equally dishonest and call it what it isn't. What it is is the sale of a firearm between to private citizens. Just like you selling your plane to another pilot would be a sale between to private citizens.

I am not being dishonest, I am trying to get you to be honest and call it what it is, till now, you have ignored that.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I said I thought there was a place to make Private Sales subject to the NCIS Check by opening it up to the seller. You're the one calling it a loop hole, I am not. Private sales are private sales.

I have been to many gun shows, not all of course, and all Businesses selling guns had to run an NCIS check for a sale, private gun sales did not happen on the show grounds as it is posted not too, but that is your assertion they are. The gun show producers i spoke with, say that even if the law doesn't require it, their insurance does. They even have staff to wonder and make sure of this. This loop hole, is being sensationalized by Piers and many others.

I am sure some do make a private sale at a show, as in all things, someone will break the rules.

But, why keep the check if the person passed?

Matt



So there is a HUGE loophole that allows disqualified people to buy firearms without a NICS check. Calling it anything but a loophole is intellectually dishonest.



But don't be equally dishonest and call it what it isn't. What it is is the sale of a firearm between to private citizens. Just like you selling your plane to another pilot would be a sale between to private citizens.



Matt



When a plane is sold between private citizens, the FAA must be notified of the sale, the purchase price, and the name and address of the buyer.

I'd agree to that for guns. Thanks for the good idea.
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I am OK with the background check being made available to private sales. But registration, not so much, look what NY is doing today with the Permit lists.

Maybe I should have used private car sales as my example.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I am OK with the background check being made available to private sales. But registration, not so much, look what NY is doing today with the Permit lists.

Maybe I should have used private car sales as my example.

Matt



Car transfers have to be recorded with the state too. Cars are registered, require mandatory liability insurance, drivers need to be tested and licensed. Another good model for guns, right?
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I am OK with the background check being made available to private sales. But registration, not so much, look what NY is doing today with the Permit lists.

Maybe I should have used private car sales as my example.

Matt



Car transfers have to be recorded with the state too. Cars are registered, require mandatory liability insurance, drivers need to be tested and licensed. Another good model for guns, right?



No.

Car transfers do not have to be registered, no insurance is required, and licences are not necessary, unless you plan on driving on public roads.

I know a guy who has at least a dozen cars. While he has the signed title for all of them, he has not told the state that he has them. The titles havn't been tranferred and no registration or plates have been issued. And has no insurance on them.

And his 14 year old grandson has gotten one of them running and drives it around the back field. With no license.

And none of that is illegal.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Not 100% true. But, I see this is a lost cause with you. You want what you want.

Try shoring up the prosecution of the criminals, that should never have been loosened.

Firearms education and licensing, good to go.

The "State" has already proven it can not be trusted with registration, CA and NY are now prime examples.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Hi joe,

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While he has the signed title for all of them, he has not told the state that he has them. The titles havn't been tranferred and no registration or plates have been issued.



Here in Oregon, you have 30 days to transfer the title; it is the law here.

You do not have to register or insure them if you do not drive them on public roads.

JerryBaumchen

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No.

Car transfers do not have to be registered, no insurance is required, and licences are not necessary, unless you plan on driving on public roads.

I know a guy who has at least a dozen cars. While he has the signed title for all of them, he has not told the state that he has them. The titles havn't been tranferred and no registration or plates have been issued. And has no insurance on them.

And his 14 year old grandson has gotten one of them running and drives it around the back field. With no license.

And none of that is illegal.



Not to speak for Kallend, but I am sure he would be fine with that restriction. Would mean that anybody who wants to carry outside of their own property will need registration, insurance, licenses etc.

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But how does that keep guns out of the hands of crazies?



I heard more about the crazy who did this this morning

He had killed his grandmother by crushing her skull with a hammer (If I heard correct this happened a while back and he was back on the street)

His goal was to kill as many people as possible before he killed himself
His plan was to burn down the neighborhood.
Guns were used to stop those trying to put out the fire (shoot the fireman)

So, should the point of the story be about guns?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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This focuses a bit on the point that I have had:

"Evil" and "crazy"are separate things. Sometimes they can intersect, but I am leaning more toward, "This guy was evil" versus "this guy was a nutter."



Absolutely.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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This focuses a bit on the point that I have had:

"Evil" and "crazy"are separate things. Sometimes they can intersect, but I am leaning more toward, "This guy was evil" versus "this guy was a nutter."



Absolutely.



A convenient belief for you, as it justifies your willingness to accept the status quo and reject out of hand any proposals for improvement.
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This focuses a bit on the point that I have had:

"Evil" and "crazy"are separate things. Sometimes they can intersect, but I am leaning more toward, "This guy was evil" versus "this guy was a nutter."



Absolutely.



A convenient belief for you, as it justifies your willingness to accept the status quo and reject out of hand any proposals for improvement.



More whining on your part

We need to protect our children as the rich do

I am willing to spend my dollars yet you selfishly resist

Whining about taxes again

Again, shameful

BTW, agreeing to protect all children with armed guards is the status quo?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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This focuses a bit on the point that I have had:

"Evil" and "crazy"are separate things. Sometimes they can intersect, but I am leaning more toward, "This guy was evil" versus "this guy was a nutter."



Absolutely.



A convenient belief for you, as it justifies your willingness to accept the status quo and reject out of hand any proposals for improvement.



More whining on your part

We need to protect our children as the rich do

I am willing to spend my dollars yet you selfishly resist

Whining about taxes again

Again, shameful

BTW, agreeing to protect all children with armed guards is the status quo?



Your ability to apply coherent logic is on a par with These folks.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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This focuses a bit on the point that I have had:

"Evil" and "crazy"are separate things. Sometimes they can intersect, but I am leaning more toward, "This guy was evil" versus "this guy was a nutter."



Absolutely.


A convenient belief for you, as it justifies your willingness to accept the status quo and reject out of hand any proposals for improvement.


More whining on your part

We need to protect our children as the rich do

I am willing to spend my dollars yet you selfishly resist

Whining about taxes again

Again, shameful

BTW, agreeing to protect all children with armed guards is the status quo?


Your ability to apply coherent logic is on a par with These folks.


I have to admit I am enjoying watching you squirm when your own debate tactics are turned on you:D
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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But how does that keep guns out of the hands of crazies?



By severely reducing the number of guns in circulation. Thereby reducing the ease with which many of these crazies get their hands on guns.

One incident like Newtown would bring pretty significant insurance increases.

Yes, I know it wouldn't be 100% effective.

Personally I believe that frequent mass shootings are part of the price you pay for your constitution. Guns can be used for good and for eveil. The more guns in circulation, the more they will be used for good and for evil.

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But how does that keep guns out of the hands of crazies?



By severely reducing the number of guns in circulation. Thereby reducing the ease with which many of these crazies get their hands on guns.

One incident like Newtown would bring pretty significant insurance increases.

Yes, I know it wouldn't be 100% effective.

Personally I believe that frequent mass shootings are part of the price you pay for your constitution. Guns can be used for good and for eveil. The more guns in circulation, the more they will be used for good and for evil.



the only side of your post where the percentage would be reduced, would be the side where guns are used for good
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I am willing to spend my dollars yet you selfishly resist

Whining about taxes again

Again, shameful

BTW, agreeing to protect all children with armed guards is the status quo?



Your ability to apply coherent logic is on a par with These folks.

I have to admit I am enjoying watching you squirm when your own debate tactics are turned on you:D

OK, genius, please link to a post in which I have complained about paying taxes.
...

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I just saw this on the wire. This is disgusting...

So, a former convict who was released after murdering a family member. Those gun laws sure kept that bad guy from getting guns, huh???



Why the surprise, the gun lobby has rendered the gun laws useless.

The clear solution is for the NRA to pay to put an armed guard on every fire truck.



What a useless reply... Such a wonder I rarely ever post in this forum. Aren't you supposed to be a Phd or something? I'd expect a better retort from someone of your education level. Rant on. You'll get nowhere.



It's the toothless gun laws that are useless, courtesy of the loopholes demanded by the gun lobby.



Define Toothless.

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I just saw this on the wire. This is disgusting...

So, a former convict who was released after murdering a family member. Those gun laws sure kept that bad guy from getting guns, huh???



Why the surprise, the gun lobby has rendered the gun laws useless.

The clear solution is for the NRA to pay to put an armed guard on every fire truck.



What a useless reply... Such a wonder I rarely ever post in this forum. Aren't you supposed to be a Phd or something? I'd expect a better retort from someone of your education level. Rant on. You'll get nowhere.



It's the toothless gun laws that are useless, courtesy of the loopholes demanded by the gun lobby.



Define Toothless.



Done already - read the threads.
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OK, genius, please link to a post in which I have complained about paying taxes.



kallend posted

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Rich folks can pay for whatever they like. Lots of rich folks have bodyguards too. And if the guards were there before Obama's kids, then why mention Obama at all? Is your ODS playing up again?

Maybe the NRA will pay for armed guards at schools in poor neighborhoods. I'd agree to that.



Indicates YOU dont think you should pay for it.

kallend posts

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I pay plenty of tax, probably a lot more than you. However, consider this a user fee: gun users should pay the cost of protecting the public from guns.
.



Now you boast you make more money than I do but are still unwilling to put your money where you wallet is to protect our children

kallend posts

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People of less means get a lot less overall than people of means.



So you think the rick ( such as you) have no reason to pay for gov protection services to families of lower means

Yet you bitch that those like Romney pay too little taxes
I guess it must depend on what rich dollars pay for huh:S

kallend posts

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Indeed, we have a small police force in my community. My property taxes are used to support it.



It is cool when the money goes for you

I could go on
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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