Stopping School Shootings

[steve1 5]

I know everyone is outraged by school shootings. The government is trying to come up with some legislation, that will make a difference. They will probably come up with some grand idea that will do little or nothing to prevent this from happening again.

I work in a tough school. Three times, this year, we have had a lock down in our school. When there is a possibility of a shooter, everyone is trained to lock their door and hide. People say it is only a matter of time before a real shooter shows up. So, far this year, one student has been found with a 9mm automatic. I'm tired of waiting, like a sheep for slaughter.

There is quite a wait time before the police show up, during these lock downs.

I know this is a radical idea, but I think it would work.....I think there should be armed personnel in the school. They could would carry their weapon concealed. There is no reason this wouldn't work well.

Israel is one country that does this, with great results. Some schools in Texas are now doing the same thing.

Of course you wouldn't want every crazy teacher packing a heater, but there is no reason that several responsible people in a school, couldn't be trained to do this.

If a nut case enters a school, with a gun, it would be eliminated before large numbers of children and staff were killed.

Gun Sight is a training facility in Nevada. Normally it costs something like a thousand dollars a day to receive their training. They are the best. They too are sickened by what has happened in Connecticut. They are offering to train school personnel free of charge.

Graduates of their training courses have outshot the police, when comparing shooting abilities.

I know this is a radical idea, but the bottom line is that it would work....

[rehmwa 2]

I know this is a radical idea - but how about the Feds just stay out of it and let the parents and the schools decide how they want to handle it?

From whimper and hide all the way up to allowing teachers to volunteer to be armed - any option is on the table.

Seems to me, that a small community school where everyone knows each other and a huge inner city school with metal detectors and a high end private school and a typical suburban school all have different risks and needs.

why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety.

The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steve1 5]

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I know this is a radical idea - but how about the Feds just stay out of it and let the parents and the schools decide how they want to handle it?

From whimper and hide all the way up to allowing teachers to volunteer to be armed - any option is on the table.

Seems to me, that a small community school where everyone knows each other and a huge inner city school with metal detectors and a high end private school and a typical suburban school all have different risks and needs.

why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety.

The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion.

Makes sense to me!

[beowulf 1]

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I know this is a radical idea - but how about the Feds just stay out of it and let the parents and the schools decide how they want to handle it?

From whimper and hide all the way up to allowing teachers to volunteer to be armed - any option is on the table.

Seems to me, that a small community school where everyone knows each other and a huge inner city school with metal detectors and a high end private school and a typical suburban school all have different risks and needs.

why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety.

The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion.

Sounds like you are in favor of a smaller Federal Gov. I am with you on that.

[lurch 0]

Yeah but watch: The fed gov's one, absolute, overriding priority is going to be: "Which rights and how much/how many of them can we take away?"

When they were determined to do Iraq despite there being zero actual logic or evidence, there was a sudden permanent outburst of propaganda... Bunch of guys from the hills at the paki border attacked us? "Yeah but we have to go to iraq." The guys didn't come from there? "Yeah but we really need to go to Iraq." 9/11 had nothing to DO with that area... "Yeah but they might have weapons so we have to go to Iraq."

This time the message is going to be: "Yeah but the 2nd amendment's got to go, for your safety."

The only thing that can stop one of these guys is another good guy with a gun? "Yeah but for your "safety" you're gonna have to give up some more rights. How bout the 2nd amendment? We'll start with the scary guns like rifles."

But theres 300 million guns legally and safely owned by responsible people... "Yeah but its your civic duty to give up those rights for society so we have to take that away... oh, and handguns, too... yeah..."

They won't do it all at once because they know damn well they'd have a Waco in every major city simultaneously and half the small country towns as well, so they'll do it in relentless little increments while casting all who complain or resist as "gun nuts" and defining "reasonable debate" as agreeing that we're gonna lose some rights and be subject to more restrictions, the question will be which ones... The propaganda will be saturation level and nonstop till it happens.
Watch.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Sounds like you are in favor of a smaller Federal Gov. I am with you on that.

+1

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Makes sense to me!

+1

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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The propaganda will be saturation level and nonstop till it happens.

I see the same thing, lurch.

Our nation has become one where people no longer think "I need to take care of myself and family" as the prime directive in a civil society. That's down right frowned upon in some circles. Personal responsibility, hard work, and thrift are no longer heralded as American values.

Markets, where there are many buyers and sellers, are evil because you'll get taken. Why not go to the next seller? They're basically too lazy to make that effort, and they simply don't trust their fellow man. Yet, these same people will elect some of their fellow men and happily give them great control over their lives, taken in by a promise of "we've got your best interests in mind". Then, there is no recourse when you realize you can't walk away from that politician(s).

I see Obamacare as a huge gateway to giving the Federal government unbelievable control over our lives. Just wait - "Hey, you can't skydive because that's too dangerous and we can't expect society to pay for your injuries". That, and many more scenarios, are barreling down at us right now. The current liberal Democratic government has shown no limits, and no respect for the Constitution, IMO. This is not going to be pretty.

/rant

We are all engines of karma

[DJL 232]

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I know this is a radical idea, but I think it would work.....I think there should be armed personnel in the school.

It costs money to train a cop and there's even a selection process for aptitude. When you think about the $ it would take to have what amounts to an armed militia inside every school in the country the concept becomes prohibitive. Next, you somehow need to be able to identify a shooter and have the teachers get there in their penny-loafers fast enough to keep anything from happening.

Next, there will be teacher turn-over and retraining which means more money to keep the system in place and effective. In the long run it won't happen. Schools hardly have the budget to keep graffiti off the walls.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[grimmie 173]

The lawsuit for one madman with a gun is less than one armed teacher killing a student with an accidental discharge...

[kallend 1,623]

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I know this is a radical idea - but how about the Feds just stay out of it and let the parents and the schools decide how they want to handle it?

From whimper and hide all the way up to allowing teachers to volunteer to be armed - any option is on the table.

Seems to me, that a small community school where everyone knows each other and a huge inner city school with metal detectors and a high end private school and a typical suburban school all have different risks and needs.

why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety.

The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion.

DISAGREE.

1. Gun laws need to be uniform or they are too easy to circumvent. Only the feds can make this happen.

2. Very poor areas would have a hard time paying for extra security. So implementation would be inhomogeneous and as usual the poorest would get the short end of the stick.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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The propaganda will be saturation level and nonstop till it happens.

I see the same thing, lurch.

Our nation has become one where people no longer think "I need to take care of myself and family" as the prime directive in a civil society. That's down right frowned upon in some circles. Personal responsibility, hard work, and thrift are no longer heralded as American values.

Markets, where there are many buyers and sellers, are evil because you'll get taken. Why not go to the next seller? They're basically too lazy to make that effort, and they simply don't trust their fellow man. Yet, these same people will elect some of their fellow men and happily give them great control over their lives, taken in by a promise of "we've got your best interests in mind". Then, there is no recourse when you realize you can't walk away from that politician(s).

I see Obamacare as a huge gateway to giving the Federal government unbelievable control over our lives. Just wait - "Hey, you can't skydive because that's too dangerous and we can't expect society to pay for your injuries". That, and many more scenarios, are barreling down at us right now. The current liberal Democratic government has shown no limits, and no respect for the Constitution, IMO. This is not going to be pretty.

/rant

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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I know this is a radical idea - but how about the Feds just stay out of it and let the parents and the schools decide how they want to handle it?

From whimper and hide all the way up to allowing teachers to volunteer to be armed - any option is on the table.

Seems to me, that a small community school where everyone knows each other and a huge inner city school with metal detectors and a high end private school and a typical suburban school all have different risks and needs.

why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety.

The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion.

DISAGREE.

1. Gun laws need to be uniform or they are too easy to circumvent. Only the feds can make this happen.

2. Very poor areas would have a hard time paying for extra security. So implementation would be inhomogeneous and as usual the poorest would get the short end of the stick.

odd - my post isn't about gun laws, it's about each school deciding on the necessary security for their needs without outside interference

Clearly the website has a problem as it even shows my post quoted. That gives the impression that your post is a complete tangent and we know you are much smarter than that. I'll send a note in about the glitch and we'll see if Sangiro can figure out what's wrong.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[FreeFallFiend 0]

When I was in High School we did have an armed LEO on premise at all times that openly carried. His official title was School Resource Officer. He was a full LEO that transferred from the Sherrif's Dept and had additional educational training. This was in response to a shooting and lockdown situation that occurred at my high school back in the mid 90s. The officer was a very well loved member of our school by both the students and staff. He assisted with kids with discipline/behavior issues in a very unique way that was both effective and comforting. Many students viewed him similar to the fun uncle in the family.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[councilman24 36]

We have officers in our two high schools. They are much as you describe. And
they become the first target. And may not survive upcoming revenue losses by both schools and cities.

One did have to tase an irrational, knife welding, non-compliant 17 year old a couple of weeks ago.

In Michigan, because I have a CPL I can OPEN carry in a school but not concealed carry. Gov vetoed a law reversing that mistake in the wake of the shooting.

Bad people (bad for whatever reason) will do bad things with whatever tools they have. Criminals do not follow laws. The last "assault weapons ban" only made some people lots of money. NOTHING available before the bad was unavailable during the ban. Just more expensive. Rifle OEM's only had to remove the bayonet lug to make the exact rifle legally. Without confiscation it will take generations for current weapons to leave the society. And criminals (as well of lots of folks who aren't criminals now) will ignore confiscation or ban and the items will still be available to those who want to do evil.

Registering all firearms once again only helps with law abiding individuals. Killers aren't law abiding.

We are a country and society born with a gun in our hand. I don't think the French revolution used firearms much (pitchforks) but the Colonies did. We continued to grow the country by stealing it at the end of a gun from the native population. We fed our families by hunting. I see NO way that any gun control law would stop many of the shootings. Even legally purchased and registered guns, as used a week ago, can be used by deranged individuals. England was able to enact a handgun ban and confiscation because of a lack of history of individual gun ownership. Of course their Olympic pistol team had to practice out of the country. (I think it was theirs)

And we have too many soft target for security to be practical. In MI our school's funding has been cut. Our mental health funding has been practically eliminated. Getting mental health services in this state, EVEN WITH INSURANCE, is difficult.

When shall issue CPL was enacted many folks predicted blood in the streets. It hasn't happened even though it is relatively easy for most to get a license. Right now I don't see more concealed carry to act both as a deterrent and reactive force as bad.

I shoot more rounds in a single evening of training for competition than most cops shoot in years. Am I as good at law enforcement? No. Can I shoot as well? yes. Can I make the right judgements? Maybe.

The problem is if one gun carrying teacher killed last weeks shooter after 5 killed, but killed one kid in the process, we would have a net saving of life of 20. But we would never know that. The good guy would be ruined (emotionally, financially, socially) and perhaps in jail. And we would never know what good might have come from it.

I have 6 and 4 year old girls. I cried much of last week end. It felt very strange walking into the school with the first grader on Monday. But I know that I can't protect them everywhere, and society can't protect them everywhere from mad men. I can only hope or pray that they are safe.

What will happen. I don't expect teachers/staff to be armed in most of the country. I expect new high(normal) capacity magazine will once again be banned to little effect. I expect some rifles may be banned but I don't expect only 3 round bolt action rifles to be legal. I can't envision confiscation in this country, like it or not. Not when a major manufacturer sells a shotgun complete with water proof case to bury it in. I expect controls on all sales, commercial and private, of firearms but not sure that will make it. With the concurrent cost of expansion of background checks. And I expect little real increase in mental health services.

What can we do? Hell if I know. Double taxes may provide for children's security, mental health system restoration and expansion and I might go for it. But most won't and it won't happen here. And I just can't help but think that the possibility of armed resistance in most places (school, etc) would help a little.

The random thoughts of the last few days. Now it's time to hug my kids again.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety.

That's like them making rules like don't put any lead in a kids toy. If a parent lets their kid suck on some lead toy it is their own damn problem.

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The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion.

Yup....fuck the welfare of the population....just as long as I can have guns everything will be ok.

[rehmwa 2]

It's fun strawmanning with you. I'm learning a lot.

I like this:

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That's like them making rules like don't put any lead in a kids toy.

If you think passing a law that tells people they can't shoot bullets into kids' toys is a good idea, than only criminal will shoot bullets at kids' toys.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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It's fun strawmanning with you. I'm learning a lot.

I though you wanted the fed to stay out of property rights? Or just some property rights?

[billvon 2,394]

>1. Gun laws need to be uniform or they are too easy to circumvent. Only the feds can
>make this happen.

He didn't say "let parents and teachers write gun laws." He said "let them decide how they want to handle security at their schools." Which I agree with.

>2. Very poor areas would have a hard time paying for extra security.

Yes, they would. They also have a hard time paying for teachers. (And for pretty much everything.) We can't change that.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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If you think passing a law that tells people they can't shoot bullets into kids' toys is a good idea, than only criminal will shoot bullets at kids' toys.....

Sorry, I don't see the humour in the death of these kids, or the response of many to it. Maybe having two kids in that same age bracket makes me biased.

[rehmwa 2]

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If you think passing a law that tells people they can't shoot bullets into kids' toys is a good idea, than only criminal will shoot bullets at kids' toys.....

Sorry, I don't see the humour in the death of these kids, or the response of many to it. Maybe having two kids in that same age bracket makes me biased.

It's really humor in your stupid comments, not at all about the kids. You make strawman after strawman and I just joined to see if you were being friendly or an ass. I see there's no point in debating someone just trying to be objectionable for the sake of being objectionable.

If you have a couple young kids, I don't see how you can object to having a say locally in how to protect your kids without federal interference based on garnering votes rather than actually protecting your kids. My comment doesn't even talk about a specific way to do it, just that you get a say in it.

I wonder about your assumption that allowing parents as many options as they can come up to you means only arming the school and no other option. Your viewpoint is pretty narrow.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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It's really humor in your stupid comments, not at all about the kids. You make strawman after strawman and I just joined to see if you were being friendly or an ass. I see there's no point in debating someone just trying to be objectionable for the sake of being objectionable.

No need for the name calling.

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If you have a couple young kids, I don't see how you can object to having a say locally in how to protect your kids without federal interference based on garnering votes rather than actually protecting your kids. My comment doesn't even talk about a specific way to do it, just that you get a say in it.

I do have a say in it. I can send my kids to private school. I can even start my own school, with its own rules.

I don't understand how you can claim that the federal government has no role to play in the welfare of children. Hence the question about lead in toys.

Lead, like guns, is just an object, a property if you will. Do you also believe that the federal government does not have a right to legislate the lead content in toys and that parents should have a say in it?

I am trying to find out if your viewpoint is consistent, or if it is different because it involves guns.

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I wonder about your assumption that allowing parents as many options as they can come up to you means only arming the school and no other option.

That's not my opinion at all. I just disagree that the federal government should play no role in the process.

[matthewcline 0]

I proposed to out Mayor having ASRT in the schools, hire ex-mil, retired mil, LEO, and armed SEO's. Have them train on the drills and place them in the schools, coupled with CCTV and electronic lock doors.

I have been ignored of course. The State has held a meeting and their idea (rumored) is to expand the "zone" around the school for a larger gun free area.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[beowulf 1]

Ha, will that come with an invisible barrier that will stop all guns from entering?
They need to post signs saying DEFENSELESS CIVILIAN AREA No Guns allowed!!!!

[DJL 232]

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...hire ex-mil, retired mil, LEO, and armed SEO's.

Ever sat in on a school budget meeting?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher