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Shredex

"Cold Hard Facts the Anti-Gun Forces can no longer escape."

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If there are no guns, then no one can be killed by a gun. If there are FEWER guns, then one can expect FEWER gun related deaths.



The real world doesn't work that way.

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amazing how simple math works.



Math is easy but people are complicated

In 1974 Jamaica banned handguns, used warrantless searches to look for them, setup special gun courts, tried people in camera (secret), and imposed mandatory life sentences.

Their murder rate skyrocketed to 60 per 100,000 people.

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again you are extrapolating your own made up scenarios. I prefer facts.



The numbers are WAGs, no doubt. But there's little question that gun legislation is followed by citizens, not felons. The effects of new legislation, be they sin taxes or bans, hit law abiding citizens much harder.

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For example, a fact would be something like.....countries with tighter guns restrictions and fewer gun have less death by guns.

imagine that.... a fact!



actually, no, that's a generalization. There are such countries with lower gun deaths and lower crime. And there are such countries with higher gun deaths, and higher crime. A logical conclusion is that you fail to understand the data, just as you already failed Statistics 101. And that maybe the causes lie somewhere else - be it the drug war, the wealth desparity, the high dropout rate in high school coupled with an economy that doesn't even treat high school grads well...

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And yes, I do believe exactly that.



Iraq had some really high gun ownership as well. Their free speech didn't fare so well.

Did they just not have enough guns? Or were they just not willing to fight like you think Americans will?



You present Iraq, but in the past 2 years scores of other nearby nations used guns to get rid of oppressive dictatorships. They didn't get there by asking nicely. And they didn't have 200 years of a better life to fight for. We, the West, give an example that life can be better, rather than serving shitheads who build giant palaces with oil money and ignore the people.

But it's also odd citing from a region that has not enjoyed free speech in general. Where speaking out against Islam can get you jailed or killed, where any reference to Muhammad (Allah help you if you name the class teddy bear after him) could get you stoned.

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I am a gun owner. And I don't have a problem with banning two major items: Assualt weapons and high-capacity magazines. Ten rounds for a pistol should be the max. Same with clip-fed rifles. And all assualt weapons should go. You could grandfather the Glock owners, but then restrictions on their resale should be put into place. Maybe only to the same people who have jumped through the Federal hoops to own machine guns and howitzers. You know these people. You've see the videos at YouTube.



Uh, glocks aren't "assault rifles," not by any definition ever invented. The 10 round magazine has been the story for California since 1994, but has had no impact. As a gun owner you should know this - it takes less than 2 seconds to exchange magazines and start firing again. It's good feel good legislation for the clueless.

We already banned "AWs" for a decade and saw how little it accomplished. Why do we need to repeat past failures?

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And like a lot of police departments in this country, I favor the 'tagging' of ammunition. Cops say this would make it a lot easier to solve gun murders and halt gun trafficking.



Technologically dubious (except for would be providers), unnecessary expense that discourages practice, and a perfect generator for a lot of false leads. What problems do you see it solving?

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I read with sadness so many of the comments that come out from some Americans after one of these tragedies and they sicken me.

Seriously do some of you have any answers to these problems other than "We need more guns" or "we need more God"??
I can’t understand the logic?! Nutcases (mentally disturbed people) who have easy access to guns WILL kill more & more people! So doesn’t it make sense that you try and make it harder for them? Even at the risk up upsetting your ridiculous Constitution that has bugger all relevance today?!?! Do you really need 4-5 guns in your house to “Protect” yourselves? Do you really need a slightly tamed down military assault rifle to “hunt” with? Is having the “Right to Bear Arms” so important to some of you that you consider 12000+ deaths a year an acceptable loss to keep such a right?

And "Absence of God"!? Are you all crazy?
More people have been killed over some idiots belief in their Imaginary Friend in history than for any other reason and some of you still believe than this happened because there was an "Absence of God in the Schools"? Unbelievable…… You are supposed to be the most powerful nation in the world, start acting as smart as you are supposed to be and Evolve!!
(note, only directed to the less intelligent people of the US who keep saying the same things every time this happens. The rest of you know this doesn’t apply to you).

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I read with sadness so many of the comments that come out from some Americans after one of these tragedies and they sicken me.

Seriously do some of you have any answers to these problems other than "We need more guns" or "we need more God"??
I can’t understand the logic?! Nutcases (mentally disturbed people) who have easy access to guns WILL kill more & more people! So doesn’t it make sense that you try and make it harder for them? Even at the risk up upsetting your ridiculous Constitution that has bugger all relevance today?!?! Do you really need 4-5 guns in your house to “Protect” yourselves? Do you really need a slightly tamed down military assault rifle to “hunt” with? Is having the “Right to Bear Arms” so important to some of you that you consider 12000+ deaths a year an acceptable loss to keep such a right?

And "Absence of God"!? Are you all crazy?
More people have been killed over some idiots belief in their Imaginary Friend in history than for any other reason and some of you still believe than this happened because there was an "Absence of God in the Schools"? Unbelievable…… You are supposed to be the most powerful nation in the world, start acting as smart as you are supposed to be and Evolve!!
(note, only directed to the less intelligent people of the US who keep saying the same things every time this happens. The rest of you know this doesn’t apply to you).



As one who worked in the field of mental health, I see that area as the social segment requiring attention.

Roslyn Carter, the president's wife, changed the rules for mental institutions. Now a major portion of our homeless are mentally ill.

I worked and still live in FL. Some years back a patient at a psychiatric hospital in Arcadia amputated both of his hands with a band saw. It was supposed to be a protest action. Now we have one state funded psychiatric hospital up in north FL.

The practice is to assimilate the mentally ill back into society ASAP. They are medicated into control and passivity. Generally, the first thing a mental patient does when free is to stop taking their meds.

In my career span I had several client suicides from drug overdose. One client murdered a man on the street. He stabbed the man to death. Another client in my area but not mine, decapitated a former girlfriend's new lover and stuck his head on the ornament of his Mercedes.

The guns are not the problem.

We need to examine our attitudes, policies and procedures concerning mental illness.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Here is another aspect, why does the issue have to be a federal issue? We could leave the whole gun rights controversy to the individual states. Those desiring very strict gun laws, legislate them. Those states desiring open gun ownership should be free to do so without federal restriction.

And then this jewel from FB. Are you worried that the feds are going to confiscate your guns? Move to Mexico and this administration will get your one in a fast and furious manner.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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I read with sadness so many of the comments that come out from some Americans after one of these tragedies and they sicken me.

Seriously do some of you have any answers to these problems other than "We need more guns" or "we need more God"??
I can’t understand the logic?! Nutcases (mentally disturbed people) who have easy access to guns WILL kill more & more people! So doesn’t it make sense that you try and make it harder for them? Even at the risk up upsetting your ridiculous Constitution that has bugger all relevance today?!?! Do you really need 4-5 guns in your house to “Protect” yourselves? Do you really need a slightly tamed down military assault rifle to “hunt” with? Is having the “Right to Bear Arms” so important to some of you that you consider 12000+ deaths a year an acceptable loss to keep such a right?

And "Absence of God"!? Are you all crazy?
More people have been killed over some idiots belief in their Imaginary Friend in history than for any other reason and some of you still believe than this happened because there was an "Absence of God in the Schools"? Unbelievable…… You are supposed to be the most powerful nation in the world, start acting as smart as you are supposed to be and Evolve!!
(note, only directed to the less intelligent people of the US who keep saying the same things every time this happens. The rest of you know this doesn’t apply to you).



As one who worked in the field of mental health, I see that area as the social segment requiring attention.

Roslyn Carter, the president's wife, changed the rules for mental institutions. Now a major portion of our homeless are mentally ill.

I worked and still live in FL. Some years back a patient at a psychiatric hospital in Arcadia amputated both of his hands with a band saw. It was supposed to be a protest action. Now we have one state funded psychiatric hospital up in north FL.

The practice is to assimilate the mentally ill back into society ASAP. They are medicated into control and passivity. Generally, the first thing a mental patient does when free is to stop taking their meds.

In my career span I had several client suicides from drug overdose. One client murdered a man on the street. He stabbed the man to death. Another client in my area but not mine, decapitated a former girlfriend's new lover and stuck his head on the ornament of his Mercedes.

The guns are not the problem.

We need to examine our attitudes, policies and procedures concerning mental illness.



XBOX, Pills, two working parents, Internet access, unsecured loaded guns= recepie for disaster.

Kids use to play outside. When they were in the house they use to play musical instruments or board games. Now they are sitting on sofas, drinking caffine drinks and killing millions of people on XBOX.

I blaim Bill Gates for inventing the personal computer. It's gone down hill since DOS

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As one who worked in the field of mental health, I see that area as the social segment requiring attention.

Roslyn Carter, the president's wife, changed the rules for mental institutions. Now a major portion of our homeless are mentally ill.

I worked and still live in FL. Some years back a patient at a psychiatric hospital in Arcadia amputated both of his hands with a band saw. It was supposed to be a protest action. Now we have one state funded psychiatric hospital up in north FL.

The practice is to assimilate the mentally ill back into society ASAP. They are medicated into control and passivity. Generally, the first thing a mental patient does when free is to stop taking their meds.

In my career span I had several client suicides from drug overdose. One client murdered a man on the street. He stabbed the man to death. Another client in my area but not mine, decapitated a former girlfriend's new lover and stuck his head on the ornament of his Mercedes.

The guns are not the problem.

We need to examine our attitudes, policies and procedures concerning mental illness.



XBOX, Pills, two working parents, Internet access, unsecured loaded guns= recepie for disaster.

Kids use to play outside. When they were in the house they use to play musical instruments or board games. Now they are sitting on sofas, drinking caffine drinks and killing millions of people on XBOX.

I blaim Bill Gates for inventing the personal computer. It's gone down hill since DOS



Sometime back there was a lot of emphasis on the "blossoming of the fig tree" as a sign of the end times. Most interpreted that Scripture as when Israel became a nation i.e., 1948.

Ironically, that same time period is when great advancement was made in computer development i.e., transistors.

Are these coincidences or eschatological development of Scripture?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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As one who worked in the field of mental health, I see that area as the social segment requiring attention.

Roslyn Carter, the president's wife, changed the rules for mental institutions. Now a major portion of our homeless are mentally ill.

I worked and still live in FL. Some years back a patient at a psychiatric hospital in Arcadia amputated both of his hands with a band saw. It was supposed to be a protest action. Now we have one state funded psychiatric hospital up in north FL.

The practice is to assimilate the mentally ill back into society ASAP. They are medicated into control and passivity. Generally, the first thing a mental patient does when free is to stop taking their meds.

In my career span I had several client suicides from drug overdose. One client murdered a man on the street. He stabbed the man to death. Another client in my area but not mine, decapitated a former girlfriend's new lover and stuck his head on the ornament of his Mercedes.

The guns are not the problem.

We need to examine our attitudes, policies and procedures concerning mental illness.



XBOX, Pills, two working parents, Internet access, unsecured loaded guns= recepie for disaster.

Kids use to play outside. When they were in the house they use to play musical instruments or board games. Now they are sitting on sofas, drinking caffine drinks and killing millions of people on XBOX.

I blaim Bill Gates for inventing the personal computer. It's gone down hill since DOS



Sometime back there was a lot of emphasis on the "blossoming of the fig tree" as a sign of the end times. Most interpreted that Scripture as when Israel became a nation i.e., 1948.

Ironically, that same time period is when great advancement was made in computer development i.e., transistors.

Are these coincidences or eschatological development of Scripture?



Development of SMS is also a problem. People don't even talk to each other they're typing back and forth. The younger generation can't even carry on a conversation. Disintegration of society as people have lost social skills and how to communicate with each other. Bell created PHONE for a reason. But now we're going backwards typing over the phone line? Voice to Text might help and that's around the corner, especially since keyboards will follow mouse demise.

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I'm not sure that any of the recent mass killers would have been confined to mental hospitals based on their pre-rampage "weirdness," even if mental hospitals were as plentiful as they were in the 1950's and 1960's.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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I'm not sure that any of the recent mass killers would have been confined to mental hospitals based on their pre-rampage "weirdness," even if mental hospitals were as plentiful as they were in the 1950's and 1960's.

Wendy P.



Well there's some first steps. They took the kid who brought the .22 to school to clink for mental evualation. I see mental health becoming more involved and courts dealing the adjudication of mental health and constitutional rights and you can't have your rights taken unless your found mentally ill. With the pharm industry push to have all of us on a $40/ month supply of medicine, it won't be long that we all have an illness. It's just a matter of sorting out what illness constitutes loss of rights. The institution construction industry is salivating.

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XBOX, Pills, two working parents, Internet access, unsecured loaded guns= recepie for disaster.

Kids use to play outside. When they were in the house they use to play musical instruments or board games. Now they are sitting on sofas, drinking caffine drinks and killing millions of people on XBOX.

I blaim Bill Gates for inventing the personal computer. It's gone down hill since DOS



Sometime back there was a lot of emphasis on the "blossoming of the fig tree" as a sign of the end times. Most interpreted that Scripture as when Israel became a nation i.e., 1948.

Ironically, that same time period is when great advancement was made in computer development i.e., transistors.

Are these coincidences or eschatological development of Scripture?



Development of SMS is also a problem. People don't even talk to each other they're typing back and forth. The younger generation can't even carry on a conversation. Disintegration of society as people have lost social skills and how to communicate with each other. Bell created PHONE for a reason. But now we're going backwards typing over the phone line? Voice to Text might help and that's around the corner, especially since keyboards will follow mouse demise.



I was discussing this phenomena with a friend the other day. Kids have difficulty expressing themselves verbally, poor social skills. I have a couple grandsons whose father is a programmer. They know every cutting edge technological device on the market. If I ask them a question they get that deer in headlights look about them. If I ask them how a specific game works, for instance, what is the object of the game? They cannot verbally explain it. Maybe it will get better as they get older. I have doubts. Their father can't carry on a conversation either. He knows all the answers.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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I'm not sure that any of the recent mass killers would have been confined to mental hospitals based on their pre-rampage "weirdness," even if mental hospitals were as plentiful as they were in the 1950's and 1960's.

Wendy P.



Well there's some first steps. They took the kid who brought the .22 to school to clink for mental evualation. I see mental health becoming more involved and courts dealing the adjudication of mental health and constitutional rights and you can't have your rights taken unless your found mentally ill. With the pharm industry push to have all of us on a $40/ month supply of medicine, it won't be long that we all have an illness. It's just a matter of sorting out what illness constitutes loss of rights. The institution construction industry is salivating.



Keep in mind the legal definition of mental illness is not the same as a clinical definition of mental illness.

A judge can determine you are mentally incompetent even though you are sane. It probably doesn't happen often but it is possible. Basically, all you need is three close relatives to seek an ex parte order because they want your money.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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They took the kid who brought the .22 to school to clink for mental evualation.

they should also evaluate the parents... They gave him the gun. Please explain me how "legit" is a 6th grader with a gun.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Columbine was smack dab in the middle of the previous AW assault ban. Clebold and Harris used shotguns and pistols. They also made a multitude of IED's set up over the campus. Banning a particular type of weapon now will only bring more rules and regulations in the future. So in two years when some nutjob goes into a day care with a deer rifle and a shotgun and shoots the place up that will be the next banned weapon.

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You present Iraq, but in the past 2 years scores of other nearby nations used guns to get rid of oppressive dictatorships. They didn't get there by asking nicely. And they didn't have 200 years of a better life to fight for. We, the West, give an example that life can be better, rather than serving shitheads who build giant palaces with oil money and ignore the people.



We, the west created many of those oppressive dictatorships. I doubt we are seen as the great model of society.

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But it's also odd citing from a region that has not enjoyed free speech in general. Where speaking out against Islam can get you jailed or killed, where any reference to Muhammad (Allah help you if you name the class teddy bear after him) could get you stoned.



So, guns don't protect free speech? I thought you were claiming the opposite?

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