I Really Hope the news is Wrong...

[kelpdiver 2]

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INDEED IT WAS, THE HOMICIDE RATE WAS DECREASING PRIOR TO THE BAN BEING OVERTURNED, AND NOW IT IS GOING BACK UP UP.

your own data doesn't show that, and we know how often you speak against the use of datum to indicate a trend.

your data shows a flat 8 year scatterplot, which is exactly what you'd expect to see since few people have yet negotiated Chicago's ridiculous regulation around purchase, and the sort of people who shoot each other don't bother.

[lummy 4]

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How about this for a notion? Schools form policies and procedures and are given training on the use and deployment of equipment and strategies/tactics/drills to provide an internal response to mitigate these incidents. That means putting certain things on the table:
(1) Teachers, administrators and staff trained on procedures to mount a defense against an invading shooter
(2) Teachers, administrators and staff being allowed to volunteer to form response teams and receive training in the use of weapons to neutralize an attacker
(3) Teachers, administrators and staff having the equipment available to neutralize these shooters?

Out here we train for fires. We train for earthquakes. We used to train for nuclear attacks. We prayed these things didn’t happen but we trained and keep training and drilling for events. We don’t do that with shooters. Why? Because for all intents and purposes, no meaningful defense can be mounted with school possession laws being what they are.

It's already happening. My campus PD has an "active shooter" seminar they give to faculty and staff It gave us tools on what to really expect and how to react, even how to disarm a shooter if your life depended on it.

On a side note, they refused to use the names of historical active shooters such as in Columbine or V Tech. The reasoning is that the shooter most often does this to gain the notoriety of being known as the person who did such a disgraceful act.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

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[catfishhunter 1]

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But for sure we do not have a gun problem....

If people and the right wing thinks that a bunch of pissed off Moms are not going to be taking action, well go ahead and stand there clutching your guns....

Look what they did for drunk driving. No different in skydiving. If we fail to regulate ourselves, then someone will step in and do it.

And if the NRA and the extreme gun right digs in, then they can expect to lose absolutely everything in the end.

The picture says it all

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[mpohl 1]

Speakers Corner is really the gutter. The WORST America has to offer...

As the President said: "Our hearts are broken today." Which will resonate with anyone who has a kid.

Nothing more needs to be said......

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Speakers Corner is really the gutter. The WORST America has to offer...

As the President said: "Our hearts are broken today." Which will resonate with anyone who has a kid.

Nothing more needs to be said......

Sure it does. That's what we do in SC.

[billvon 2,380]

>Out here we train for fires. We train for earthquakes. We used to train for nuclear
>attacks. We prayed these things didn’t happen but we trained and keep training and
>drilling for events.

We do that in San Diego for school shootings as well. (And bomb threats, and chemical threats as well as the usual fire drills.) I'm surprised they don't do it up north as well.

[twatterpilot 0]

Perhaps if we focused on the WHY and not the HOW we might actually figure out how to stop this kind of thing.

I, for one, feel if we stopped raising a bunch of rear echelon, limp dick pussies in this country, we might not have stuff like this happening.

Perhaps if we taught our children that actions have consequences, and that not everyone wins, trophies for participation don't exist in the real world, and that if you are bad you are going to get your ass spanked.

This crime, (notice I didn't call it a gun crime, just a crime) was a direct result of bad parenting and the complete and utter degradation of our society.


So, stop the gun control ranting. If you don't like our laws as they are LEAVE! More people are killed by drunk drivers every year by a factor of 4 than by guns. And the guns used to commit 90% of the gun crimes are obtained illegally and used by criminals. So more laws are not going to solve the problem.

A good swift kick in the ass might have prevented this kind of thing from happening. Perhaps the gunman didn't get hugged enough as a child. Or perhaps he was angry that mommy didn't buy him that iPad he always wanted. The fact that the dipshit used a gun was irrelevant. He could have easily used a baseball bat or a kitchen knife.

So knock off the immature, knee jerk reactionary bull shit people.

Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8
Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land
Private Glider

[lawrocket 3]

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We do that in San Diego for school shootings as well.

What's the training do? From what I've read in Connecticut, the kids were instructed to go into the corner. Which is standard lockdown procedure - designed so police aren't dealing with confusion when they arrive. Kids get into classrooms and wait for police to arrive.

A bunch of kids waiting in a corner in the classroom. To a shooter intent on killing is there an easier target? Nope. But the lockdown procedures talk about this.

How about teachers and students barricading doors? Nope. Against procedure. Getting the hell out of there? Against procedure, could cause confusion, blah. How about fighting back? Tougher with grade schoolers, yes, but how about it? Nope. In the corner and hope you don't get shot.

How about a different response?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[linebckr83 3]

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Perhaps if we focused on the WHY and not the HOW we might actually figure out how to stop this kind of thing.

I, for one, feel if we stopped raising a bunch of rear echelon, limp dick pussies in this country, we might not have stuff like this happening.

Perhaps if we taught our children that actions have consequences, and that not everyone wins, trophies for participation don't exist in the real world, and that if you are bad you are going to get your ass spanked.

This crime, (notice I didn't call it a gun crime, just a crime) was a direct result of bad parenting and the complete and utter degradation of our society.


So, stop the gun control ranting. If you don't like our laws as they are LEAVE! More people are killed by drunk drivers every year by a factor of 4 than by guns. And the guns used to commit 90% of the gun crimes are obtained illegally and used by criminals. So more laws are not going to solve the problem.

A good swift kick in the ass might have prevented this kind of thing from happening. Perhaps the gunman didn't get hugged enough as a child. Or perhaps he was angry that mommy didn't buy him that iPad he always wanted. The fact that the dipshit used a gun was irrelevant. He could have easily used a baseball bat or a kitchen knife.

So knock off the immature, knee jerk reactionary bull shit people.

I agree with what you say here. Any he very possibly could have been raised the wrong way. But I have seen some kids I went to school with, part of a very good family with good parents, go completely apeshit when they get out on their own and their parents have no more say.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[billvon 2,380]

>Perhaps if we taught our children that actions have consequences, and that not
>everyone wins, trophies for participation don't exist in the real world . . .

I've seen a lot of things blamed for this incident. Trophies seem like a bit of a stretch.

> So more laws are not going to solve the problem.

Nor are more guns - or less trophies.

[normiss 620]

I don't see mass killings at gun ranges, NRA meetings, police stations, or (mostly) military installations.
ALL of the mass shootings have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES.
You generally want to hunt where there are good targets. I would expect the assurance that nobody is armed goes a long way into the planning.
These guys don't "snap" either, there is way too much time and meticulous planning for months to years in advance. The reports on Columbine says it took over a year to plan that one. Where the hell are the friends and family that miss the signs of a military type plan taking place? Oddly enough, they sure seem to recall all the signs AFTER an incident.

There have been an average of 150 people killed in mass killings per year in the USA for many decades. Yet we have 15,000 single murders. Where is the outrage? Misplaced because of media coverage.

Personally, we'd be better served returning to institutionalizing the whackos instead of letting them roam freely.

I can only hope the next idiot that wants to kill his mommy and daddy has the decency to kill them at home and leave the populace out of their own hell.

Yes, if one of my kids was dead I'd be fucking livid that they didn't have ANY protection. A fat cop with a radio and a side arm would be a hell of a lot more deterrent than the Gun Free Zone sign.
Guaranfuckingteed.

[billvon 2,380]

>What's the training do?

Depends on the school. SDSU has a shelter-in-place plan with securable areas identified, and SDSU, UCSD and USD have on-campus police presence that train for this. Most schools have pretty extensive evacuation plans. USD has a set of guidelines they give to students:

==========================
In an Active Shooter Emergency

Make a decision, trusting your instincts, to take action to protect yourself to survive the situation. You generally will have three options:

Get away: Can you safely escape?
Hide: Is there a good place to hide?
Confront: Will you take out the shooter?

Getting Out

If you can and you deem it safe, get out and get to a safe place.
You will have to rely partially on instinct.
Leave belongings behind, but take your cell phone if it is handy.

Hiding in a Safe Place

Find a hidden location.
Find protection behind furniture if possible.
Find a room that locks if you can.
If possible, close and lock the outside door to the room. Blockade the door with furniture or other heavy objects.
Close the blinds, turn off the lights, remain quiet, silence cell phones, spread out away from other individuals, and move behind available cover. Stay on the floor, away from doors or windows, and do not peek out to see what may be happening.
Make a plan with others in the room about what you will do if the shooter enters.
Make a total commitment to action and act as a team with others.
Do whatever is necessary to survive the situation.
If possible and safe to do so, report the location of the assailant.

If Outside When a Shooting Occurs

Drop to the ground immediately, face down as flat as possible. If within 15-20 feet of a safe place or cover, duck and run to it.
Move or crawl away from gunfire, trying to utilize any obstructions between you and the gunfire. Remember that many objects of cover may conceal you from sight, but may not be bulletproof.
When you reach a place of relative safety, stay down and do not move. Do not peek or raise your head in an effort to see what may be happening.
Wait and listen for directions from Public Safety and/law enforcement personnel.

If Suspect is in Close Proximity

An individual must use his/her own discretion about when he or she must engage a shooter for survival.
Generally, one can lie motionless and pretend to be unconscious or confront the individual.
Make a plan as to how you will survive the situation.
Make a total commitment to action and act as a team with others if possible.
Do whatever is necessary to survive the situation.

Help Out

Warn others.
Help others escape.
Keep others away from the danger area.
Help the injured.
Help others stay calm

Calling for Help

If safe to do so, call the appropriate authorities. Do not assume that someone else has reported the incident.
On Campus: call the Department of Public Safety at (619) 260-2222.
Be persistent; phones may be jammed.
Calmly identify yourself and your exact location. Remain calm and answer the dispatcher’s questions. The dispatcher is trained to obtain the necessary and required information for an appropriate emergency response.
If safe to do so, stop and take time to get a good description of the criminal. Note height, weight, sex, race, approximate age, clothing, method and direction of travel, and his/her name, if known. If the suspect is entering a vehicle, note the license plate number, make and model, color, and outstanding characteristics. All of this takes only a few seconds and is of the utmost help to the responding officers.
Although you are not expected to know all of the answers, answer them to the best of your ability. Even though you may think the questioning is wasting valuable time, the information you provide will enable Public Safety dispatchers to dispatch officers and other emergency personnel safely and effectively.

During your call to Public Safety, you will be asked questions, such as:
What exactly is happening and how do you know? Is it still happening?
Where is the suspect now? What was his/her last known direction of travel?
Are there any wounded and how many?
What is the specific location of occurrence?
What types of weapons were used? Describe the weapon/s or other dangerous object/s if possible, and any visible ammunition:
Rifle
Shotgun
Handgun: revolver or automatic
Ammunition: Describe type, amount and type of container (metal box, cardboard box, backpack pockets and others)
Knife or other dangerous weapons
Explosive device: Give specific description
Were any shots fired? Describe the sound and the number of shots fired.
Do you know who the suspect/s is? If yes, identify them and provide any background knowledge you may have.

When Law Enforcement Arrives

When law enforcement reaches you, do not run at them or make sudden movements.
The priority of the first responders will be to identify the shooter. Law enforcement will need to ensure that you are not the shooter.
Do not scream, yell, point, or wave your arms.
Do not hold anything in your hands that could be mistaken for a weapon (including cell phones).
Be quiet and compliant.
Show the officers your empty hands and follow their instructions.
Give the number of shooters.
Give the location and physical description of the shooter.
Give the number and types of weapons.
When it is safe to do so, you will be given instructions as to how to safely exit your location.

In the Event There are Hostages

Call Public Safety and be prepared to give the following information:

Identify hostage location in building or area
Number of assailants, if known
Number of hostages, if known
Identity of assailants, if known
Any description of assailants and weapons
Any demands made by the assailant/s
If you are at a distance, move away from the location to a safer area.
If you can do so safely, evacuate area to a safer location.
If possible provide the above information to a Public Safety or Law Enforcement officer once you are in a secure location.
============================


>How about teachers and students barricading doors? Nope. Against procedure.

Since the USD guidelines specifically call out barricading doors, I don't think that's correct.

[headoverheels 291]

Yep. That's why traffic laws don't have any effect either -- scofflaws will just do what they want.

[devildog 0]

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Machete attacks on school children have happened

Outside of a few people of the Rhuwandian persuasion, I would thing killing twenty something people at one time with a machete is not too likely.

[headoverheels 291]

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I don't see mass killings at gun ranges, NRA meetings, police stations, or (mostly) military installations.
ALL of the mass shootings have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES.

You seem to have forgotten this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

[normiss 620]

That's fucking hilarious.
13 bullets is bad and therefore illegal.
11? Sure, that's ok, put one in the chamber too.

Idiocy.

All it will do is run the price up (again) for "pre-ban" products.
I'm gonna start collecting magazines again I guess.

[lawrocket 3]

Guns are strictly controlled in the military. If you so much as have a live - or spent - round in your possession, your ass go blammo. There are amnesty boxes for those to leave their trophies with no questions asked.

Those people were killed in a gun-free zone.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 620]

Way to skip right over what I said.
There's a word there I used on purpose just to cover the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood.
I still say that incident needs reclassification.

[OHCHUTE 0]

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I don't see mass killings at gun ranges, NRA meetings, police stations, or (mostly) military installations.
ALL of the mass shootings have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES.
You generally want to hunt where there are good targets. I would expect the assurance that nobody is armed goes a long way into the planning.
These guys don't "snap" either, there is way too much time and meticulous planning for months to years in advance. The reports on Columbine says it took over a year to plan that one. Where the hell are the friends and family that miss the signs of a military type plan taking place? Oddly enough, they sure seem to recall all the signs AFTER an incident.

There have been an average of 150 people killed in mass killings per year in the USA for many decades. Yet we have 15,000 single murders. Where is the outrage? Misplaced because of media coverage.

Personally, we'd be better served returning to institutionalizing the whackos instead of letting them roam freely.

I can only hope the next idiot that wants to kill his mommy and daddy has the decency to kill them at home and leave the populace out of their on hell.

Yes, if one of my kids was dfead I'd be fucking livid that they didn't have ANY protection. A fat cop with a radio and a side arm would be a hell of lot more deterrent than the Gun Free Zone sign.
Guaranfuckingteed.

I agree.

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[Arvoitus 1]

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Sickening.

I do, often, find myself wondering why we in the USA seem more prone to these kinds of incidents. I never have come up with a good answer. It's not like other countries don't have these sorts of incidents, of course, but our frequency seems far greater than the rest of the world.

Saddens me beyond words to read of these things.

Ian

No you don't, according to this site there has been 27 mass shootings in the US since 1999.

Thats 27 / 3110 which is about 0,00868 mass shootings per 100,000 people.

In Finland we've had 3 shootings since 2007 which gives about 3 / 54,22 ~ 0,0553 shootings per 100,000 people.

We even have much stricter gun laws then you do.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[kallend 1,621]

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INDEED IT WAS, THE HOMICIDE RATE WAS DECREASING PRIOR TO THE BAN BEING OVERTURNED, AND NOW IT IS GOING BACK UP UP.

your own data doesn't show that, and we know how often you speak against the use of datum to indicate a trend.

your data shows a flat 8 year scatterplot, which is exactly what you'd expect to see since few people have yet negotiated Chicago's ridiculous regulation around purchase, and the sort of people who shoot each other don't bother.

Lawrocket is still wrong, even with your interpretation.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[matthewcline 0]

Many Banks don't even have Guards, hand off the cash and make the Insurance pay up.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[matthewcline 0]

"Gun show loophole"? is that the myth that you can buy a gun at a gun show from a dealer with out a background check? if so it is incorrect. If you buy from a Dealer, there is the Federally mandated background check.

Now, private citizen can sell to a private citizen, if he has no suspicion of the buyer having a restriction to firearms ownership, as per Federal Law.

The crime statistic numbers, even quoted on NPR today support Lawrockets conclusion. Even NPR said that there hasn't been an increase in the crime (they hinted at a reduction) but an increase in the MEDIA COVERAGE.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[normiss 620]

Boom.

[OHCHUTE 0]

More people die in this country due to cell phone use. So I'm fearful of the person in the Suv ON THE CELL, AS SHE'S TRYING TO CUT OVER INTO MY LANE THIS VERY EVENING WHILE GOING TO WALL MART.

Most all elementary schools around here have security. You need buz the front desk to get in.

They need eliminate the sale of body armor, using body armor, trading in body armor, owning body armor. Makes it difficult to get a shot on the bad guy, And only bad guy's are wearing body armor around the mall or school district.