airdvr 197 #1 November 30, 2012 1.6 Trillion in hikes with 400 Billion in cuts later? Seriously? You think we should give congress 1.6 Trillion more to blow?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #2 November 30, 2012 They'll just go out where the money tree grows... Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem3 0 #3 November 30, 2012 I think I'll go on a 20-day $4 million vacaton to Hawaii to think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #4 November 30, 2012 QuoteI think I'll go on a 20-day $4 million vacaton to Hawaii to think abou tit. At last we can agree...a 4 million dollar vacation thinking about tit is a good idea! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #5 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote I think I'll go on a 20-day $4 million vacaton to Hawaii to think abou tit. At last we can agree...a 4 million dollar vacation thinking about tit is a good idea! I'd think about tits for a lot less.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #6 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I think I'll go on a 20-day $4 million vacaton to Hawaii to think abou tit. At last we can agree...a 4 million dollar vacation thinking about tit is a good idea! I'd think about tits for a lot less. See, if you were president we would have a savings."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #7 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote I think I'll go on a 20-day $4 million vacaton to Hawaii to think abou tit. At last we can agree...a 4 million dollar vacation thinking about tit is a good idea! Hopefully while he is on vacation, he can't find anything else to F UP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #8 November 30, 2012 The Democratic leadership has made it clear that non-military spending cuts are off the table. Period. There will be a tax increase on the wealthy. There will be an increase in the debt limit. Anybody who wants anything else can go fuck themselves. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,391 #9 November 30, 2012 >Anybody who wants anything else can go fuck themselves. ?? As I am sure you are aware, democrats are fighting amongst themselves as to how much to cut Medicare and Medicaid. And they have already cut Medicare by half a trillion. Of course Republicans opposed that cut. Romney himself attacked Obama on the Medicare cuts and promised to undo them. I guess if Democrats want to cut spending, Republicans tell them to just go fuck themselves, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #10 November 30, 2012 QuoteAs I am sure you are aware, democrats are fighting amongst themselves as to how much to cut Medicare and Medicaid The consensus seems to be none. Or, actually, $40 billion per year for the next decade. Said cuts being a decrease in the proposed increase in spending, so not "cuts" per se." QuoteAnd they have already cut Medicare by half a trillion. More like $.7 trillion. But that money was moved to ACA. It's like cutting the F-22. "We've made defense cuts." But moving it to the F-35. And yes, the GOP opposed that. QuoteI guess if Democrats want to cut spending, Republicans tell them to just go fuck themselves, eh? I told the Republicans to go fuck themselves. Turns out they actually do so on their own quite nicely without my needing to suggest it. Yesterday I did post Bernie Sanders' letter. I'll paraphrase the letter: "Simpson and Bowles are bankers and capitalists and jerks, too. They are so bad they supported the opponent of a progressive. "No cuts to entitlements at all. Non negotiable." Did I miss anything? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem3 0 #11 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote I think I'll go on a 20-day $4 million vacaton to Hawaii to think abou tit. Hopefully while he is on vacation, he can't find anything else to F UP That's a good point. He spends more money than that when he's home in D.C. So maybe we should just keep him on vacation somewhere at all times and consider that a bargain! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,391 #12 November 30, 2012 >The consensus seems to be none. I don't think there's a consensus yet: ======================= Fiscal Cliff: Senate Democrats Divided Over Cuts To Benefit Programs By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER 11/28/12 02:04 PM ET EST AP WASHINGTON — It's not just about taxes. There's another big obstacle to overcome as Congress and President Barack Obama work to skirt the fiscal cliff: deep divisions among Senate Democrats over whether to consider cuts to popular benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid. . . . Centrist Democrats in the Senate argue that fellow Democrats must be willing to consider cuts to Medicare and Medicaid in order to get concessions from Republicans on taxes. "It has to be both – a significant revenue increase as well as spending cuts," said Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., who is retiring as chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, said rising health care costs in Medicare and Medicaid are helping to drive future spending, making them an essential part of a long-term deficit-reduction package. "I've been part of every bipartisan group here. We've always put everything on the table," Conrad said. "If you're going to solve this problem, you're going to have to deal with where the spending is and the revenue can be raised." ======================= I am hoping the centrists win out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 November 30, 2012 good for him that said - if both sides don't put forth their "ideal to philosophy" position that they know the other side can't stomach, then they don't get to grandstand on their impotent and pointless starting points for the sheep....er, their constituents. And, BONUS, they get to bad mouth the other side just for more points. they just need to realize that getting to an agreement in less than 20 iterations is what we want it's not about what's right, it's all the PR and posing ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #14 November 30, 2012 Quote>Anybody who wants anything else can go fuck themselves. ?? As I am sure you are aware, democrats are fighting amongst themselves as to how much to cut Medicare and Medicaid. And they have already cut Medicare by half a trillion. Of course Republicans opposed that cut. Romney himself attacked Obama on the Medicare cuts and promised to undo them. I guess if Democrats want to cut spending, Republicans tell them to just go fuck themselves, eh? Cut Meicare and took the money to help fund Obamacare. Hardly a savings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #15 November 30, 2012 Thank you for calming me down, bill. I don't hope centrists win out. I hope sound financial planning wins out. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #16 November 30, 2012 Does anyone else remember when Reagan made a similar deal in 1982? The compromise was higher taxes for reduced spending. The higher taxes kicked in immediately. The reduced spending still hasn't happened. So while I agree the only way to balance the budget is to increase income and reduce spending, I highly doubt an agreement to do that would actually result in them doing that.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,391 #17 November 30, 2012 >they just need to realize that getting to an agreement in less than 20 iterations is what we want Honestly I don't think so. I think that from looking at the discussions on here, there are a significant number of people who want their side to win and to hell with the other side. Is it a characteristic the majority of people here? Probably not, but in the real world, I think it is. And what that means - unfortunately - is that politicians get re-elected on how hard they screw over the other side. For democrats that means no cuts, and for republicans that means no new taxes. Both sides are making compromise noises but no big compromises are being made, lest they be attacked for "folding" by their constituents later. I hope that changes. >it's not about what's right, it's all the PR and posing Well, it literally is about what's right to them - but what's "right" to them is to win at any cost, because they feel that's what their constituents want. I think the change here would have to come from the voter level up, rather than from the president/congress down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #18 November 30, 2012 QuoteDoes anyone else remember when Reagan made a similar deal in 1982? The compromise was higher taxes for reduced spending. The higher taxes kicked in immediately. The reduced spending still hasn't happened. So while I agree the only way to balance the budget is to increase income and reduce spending, I highly doubt an agreement to do that would actually result in them doing that. ^ This is why I am in favor of the cliff. The spending cuts kick in this year. Any sort of "deal" is going to involve a 10 year budget projection with X trillions of dollars but most of those are going to be so backloaded they have no hope of ever becoming reality."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 November 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteDoes anyone else remember when Reagan made a similar deal in 1982? The compromise was higher taxes for reduced spending. The higher taxes kicked in immediately. The reduced spending still hasn't happened. So while I agree the only way to balance the budget is to increase income and reduce spending, I highly doubt an agreement to do that would actually result in them doing that. ^ This is why I am in favor of the cliff. The spending cuts kick in this year. Any sort of "deal" is going to involve a 10 year budget projection with X trillions of dollars but most of those are going to be so backloaded they have no hope of ever becoming reality. that bait and switch was horrible and this is clearly an attempt to do the same thing today, the real bait and switch is even worse because they now define slight reductions in forecasted increases = "cutting spending" it's a blatant lie. And I doubt they even intend to honor that ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #20 November 30, 2012 Quote>they just need to realize that getting to an agreement in less than 20 iterations is what we want Honestly I don't think so. I think that from looking at the discussions on here, there are a significant number of people who want their side to win and to hell with the other side. Is it a characteristic the majority of people here? Probably not, but in the real world, I think it is. And what that means - unfortunately - is that politicians get re-elected on how hard they screw over the other side. For democrats that means no cuts, and for republicans that means no new taxes. Both sides are making compromise noises but no big compromises are being made, lest they be attacked for "folding" by their constituents later. I hope that changes. >it's not about what's right, it's all the PR and posing Well, it literally is about what's right to them - but what's "right" to them is to win at any cost, because they feel that's what their constituents want. I think the change here would have to come from the voter level up, rather than from the president/congress down. I wholeheartedly agree with your whole post, B ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #21 November 30, 2012 Quotethat bait and switch was horrible and this is clearly an attempt to do the same thing They did it with ACA, as well. They projected a ten year savings by delaying the implementation (costs) of the Act while beginning collection of the revenues soon. It's the way it's always done. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 November 30, 2012 Quote ^ This is why I am in favor of the cliff. The spending cuts kick in this year. Any sort of "deal" is going to involve a 10 year budget projection with X trillions of dollars but most of those are going to be so backloaded they have no hope of ever becoming reality. chopping off 4 toes and 2 fingers will certainly get attention. But it also digs us into a pretty nice hole, even deeper than the potential hole we are ignoring. Same problem as with just defaulting on our debts until the other side will listen to reason - it's pretty fucking stupid. If we ever stop paying our interest bills, people will stop lending to us at such nice rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #23 November 30, 2012 QuoteIf we ever stop paying our interest bills, people will stop lending to us at such nice rates And, by golly by gee, I'll bet the budget would be balanced. I'm sure that if that happened there would be plenty of cuts that could be made. We will have gone off the cliff. No more $1.2 trillion deficits. And spending would go back to 1999 levels. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 November 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf we ever stop paying our interest bills, people will stop lending to us at such nice rates And, by golly by gee, I'll bet the budget would be balanced. I'm sure that if that happened there would be plenty of cuts that could be made. no, we'll be like Greece, with people rioting in the streets and GDP nosediving due to the paralysis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #25 November 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf we ever stop paying our interest bills, people will stop lending to us at such nice rates And, by golly by gee, I'll bet the budget would be balanced. I'm sure that if that happened there would be plenty of cuts that could be made. no, we'll be like Greece, with people rioting in the streets and GDP nosediving due to the paralysis. Except it'll be worldwide...Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
