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rushmc

Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people

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Canada has a higher immigration rate than the US, and if you've been there in the last 20 years you will have observed that the population is much more diverse than the US. Somehow they have managed to ensure that everyone is covered, and by every measure of performance (lifespan, infant mortality, 5-year survival rate after cancer/heart attack, etc) the Canadian health care system performs at least as well as the US, and for less cost.

Don



I think you'll need to substantiate that claim, Don.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Ethnicity

per 2006, minority population equals 20% of the population. 2011 population = 33M, or basically California with a much lower level of diversity. Cities like Vancouver have seen a major increase in Chinese and other Asian populations, particularly during the period leading up to the end of Hong Kong as a separate entity, but that's just San Francisco decades earlier.

The comment was based only on my personal anecdotal experience/impression from visiting Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Nashville, Miami, Seattle, and San Diego (amongst other cities), all within the last 5 years or so. From what I have read, the US has a higher overall proportion of the population that is "minority", but two groups dominate that: "African-American" (13%) and Hispanic (15%). Obviously the proportion of the population that is of Asian origin is high in certain areas, such as San Francisco, but in those areas other ethnic/racial groups are less numerous. In Canadian cities, a somewhat smaller proportion of the population is composed of "visible minorities", but those people tend to be immigrants from origins more evenly distributed around the world. So, on an average day in Atlanta I may interact with people from 3 or 4 ethnic groups, whereas in Toronto or Ottawa or Vancouver I'll probably hear 8 or 10 different languages being spoken. I suspect San Francisco is more like the Canadian cities, but I think that is not typical of most American cities. Anyway, there is no question that Canada is still pursuing a liberal immigration policy, and much of the population growth is due to immigration, whereas the US is becoming more restrictive.

Getting back to the point of this thread, I don't see any reason to link immigration to the fact that so many people do not have health insurance in this country.

Don
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Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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again, see my post above. the canadian health care system killed my mother by lack of funds for timely care. The system here means people die waiting to even see a specialist six months down the road....

I'm sorry to hear of that. I'm not going to argue that the Canadian system is perfect. On the US side, many people who can't afford insurance go without care until their condition gets to a life-threatening point, at which hospitals must treat them. Medical issues that could be treated in a straightforward manner early on are left to progress to the point where they are very expensive to treat, and patients may die or be left with life-long complications and will certainly be left with devastating debt. Even if you have good health insurance, deductibles and co-payments for a serious illness can easily cost you your house, your retirement savings, and then leave you bankrupt. Virtually all of my family is in Canada; quite a few cousins/aunts/uncles have dealt with cancer over the last decade or so, and not one has lost their house or gone bankrupt because of their illness. Not one has been denied future insurance coverage because they are cancer survivors. And, only one died, and she was 78 and a life-long smoker, severely overweight, and diabetic.

The US system is without peer if you have great insurance, and the financial resources to weather hefty co-pays and deductibles. For the average person, and certainly for lower income people, the Canadian system delivers care as good as the US, without the threat of financial devastation and loss of health insurance coverage should you survive your illness.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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From what I have read, the US has a higher overall proportion of the population that is "minority", but two groups dominate that: "African-American" (13%) and Hispanic (15%).



You'd be insulting a lot of people if you consider those just two groups.

Hispanic = Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan, ... Spanish, and many South Americans. They can be vaguely grouped by their tendency to speak Spanish and be Catholic.

Black = an equally broad grouping of those were slaves in the South 150 years ago, those who actually immigrated more recently from African nations, various Carribean nations, and so forth.

Asians are not just in San Francisco, you know...my classes in Huntington Beach over 20 years ago was filled with Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese. Little Saigon (Garden Grove) was less than 10 miles away. At Cal and UCLA, Asians are no more a minority than whites.

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+1 - I choose the single payer, universal model right now over the US model. For every person who died in a single payer system waiting for health care delivery, I bet there are just as many or more dying in the USA due to lack of ANY delivery. And I know one or two myself personally.

Although here they simply deny that this is true, after all - you can go into any emergency room and get free care any time - which of course is rubbish.

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Sorry Bro, had to hi-jack the tread abit...

100 Day until Taxmageddon, just a little sample of things to come.

The 10% bracket rises to a new and expanded 15%,
-The 25% bracket rises to 28%, -The 28% bracket rises to 31%, -The 33% bracket rises to 36%, -The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family coming on January 1, 2013. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of taxable income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level.

Middle Class Death Tax returns on January 1, 2013. The death tax is currently 35% with an exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples). For those dying on or after January 1 2013, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.

Higher tax rates on savers and investors on January 1, 2013. The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 23.8 percent in 2013. The top dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 43.4 percent in 2013. This is because of scheduled rate hikes plus Obamacare’s investment surtax.

Read more: http://atr.org/days-taxmageddon-a7203#ixzz277i9sEsw

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Sorry Bro, had to hi-jack the tread abit...

100 Day until Taxmageddon, just a little sample of things to come.

The 10% bracket rises to a new and expanded 15%,
-The 25% bracket rises to 28%, -The 28% bracket rises to 31%, -The 33% bracket rises to 36%, -The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family coming on January 1, 2013. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of taxable income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level.

Middle Class Death Tax returns on January 1, 2013. The death tax is currently 35% with an exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples). For those dying on or after January 1 2013, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.

Higher tax rates on savers and investors on January 1, 2013. The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 23.8 percent in 2013. The top dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 43.4 percent in 2013. This is because of scheduled rate hikes plus Obamacare’s investment surtax.

Read more: http://atr.org/days-taxmageddon-a7203#ixzz277i9sEsw



Add then a chance at 4 more years of what ever penalties Obama can add by admistravie rule and we are all screwed.

At least half of us will be because the liberals want this
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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100 Day until Taxmageddon, just a little sample of things to come.

The 10% bracket rises to a new and expanded 15%,
-The 25% bracket rises to 28%, -The 28% bracket rises to 31%, -The 33% bracket rises to 36%, -The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family coming on January 1, 2013. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of taxable income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level.



nothing "new" about any of this- this is the sunset of a tax cut, which was wisely created with a sunset, like the assault weapons ban. Our Congress has not seen fit to decide what to do about it...a bipartisan failure.

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Canada has a higher immigration rate than the US, and if you've been there in the last 20 years you will have observed that the population is much more diverse than the US. Somehow they have managed to ensure that everyone is covered, and by every measure of performance (lifespan, infant mortality, 5-year survival rate after cancer/heart attack, etc) the Canadian health care system performs at least as well as the US, and for less cost.

Don



I think you'll need to substantiate that claim, Don.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Ethnicity

per 2006, minority population equals 20% of the population. 2011 population = 33M, or basically California with a much lower level of diversity. Cities like Vancouver have seen a major increase in Chinese and other Asian populations, particularly during the period leading up to the end of Hong Kong as a separate entity, but that's just San Francisco decades earlier.

The comment was based only on my personal anecdotal experience/impression from visiting Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Nashville, Miami, Seattle, and San Diego (amongst other cities), all within the last 5 years or so. From what I have read, the US has a higher overall proportion of the population that is "minority", but two groups dominate that: "African-American" (13%) and Hispanic (15%). Obviously the proportion of the population that is of Asian origin is high in certain areas, such as San Francisco, but in those areas other ethnic/racial groups are less numerous. In Canadian cities, a somewhat smaller proportion of the population is composed of "visible minorities", but those people tend to be immigrants from origins more evenly distributed around the world. So, on an average day in Atlanta I may interact with people from 3 or 4 ethnic groups, whereas in Toronto or Ottawa or Vancouver I'll probably hear 8 or 10 different languages being spoken. I suspect San Francisco is more like the Canadian cities, but I think that is not typical of most American cities. Anyway, there is no question that Canada is still pursuing a liberal immigration policy, and much of the population growth is due to immigration, whereas the US is becoming more restrictive.

Getting back to the point of this thread, I don't see any reason to link immigration to the fact that so many people do not have health insurance in this country.

Don



Illegal imigration is the issue. also in canada you can not get health care if you are not a citizen unless you pay for it at time of treatment, that kinda helps keep costs down.

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Sorry Bro, had to hi-jack the tread abit...

100 Day until Taxmageddon, just a little sample of things to come.



Why won't Obama do the same thing he did in 2010, and sign with the rate cuts for everyone intact a second time?

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I'm not willing to let working families across this country become collateral damage for political warfare here in Washington. And I'm not willing to let our economy slip backwards just as we're pulling ourselves out of this devastating recession. ... So, sympathetic as I am to those who prefer a fight over compromise, as much as the political wisdom may dictate fighting over solving problems, it would be the wrong thing to do

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I'm currently reading "THE AMATEUR" by Edward Klein, I'm in a section of the book that might provide an answer to your question, I will have to get back to ya. Next on the reading list is "The Great Distroyer", "Barack Obama's War on the Republic". This book might provide a clear understanding of the man we all know as "O", "Amateur", "Empty Chair", "Empty Suit"....

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in canada all non life threatening medical needs for non citizens must be paid at time of service.

As is also the case in the US. This cannot explain the difference in cost between the US and Canada. Care to try again?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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"Since immigration was the only difference you mentioned, and given that your posts are usually well written and your meaning is usually unambiguous, I assumed that you were attaching considerable importance to immigration as a factor in health care. If that wasn't your meaning I stand corrected.

That being said, I can't see any reason at all why immigration would have anything to do with the low proportion of the US population with health insurance, compared to every other industrialized country.

Don "

My point is that its not a fair comparison between tiny nations and the US. We are much larger with a much greater amount of poor and working poor. We allow poor people to come here because traditionally our growth absorbs them. they allow much much less. Google and see what it takes to get German or Italian residency not to mention citizenship. Its far more restrictive than ours.

My argument is not so much about immigration, though, as it is about the make up of our nation being too different than theirs to make a fair comparison. The US to India or China would be a more apt comparison for me.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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also in canada you can not get health care if you are not a citizen unless you pay for it at time of treatment,



Wrong.



in canada all non life threatening medical needs for non citizens must be paid at time of service.



That's not true -- even refugee claimants awaiting hearings are eligible, even though it can take years before their cases are decided... In fact, they may get better treatment than citizens....
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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