Fair Share?

[airdvr 197]

I think it's interesting that Obama's camp are going after the over 250K folks and ignoring the 47% of the population that paid no federal taxes in 2011. I think he might get a bit more traction if he applied the 'fair share' rhetoric across the board.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[DanG 1]

Do we really have to do this again?

- Dan G

[SkydiveJonathan 0]

Romney wants to greatly increase dynastic wealth by eliminating the estate tax, which would have a devastating effect on future economic growth, entrepreneurship and social stability. His plan would retain the gift tax, but it is already so porous that, as Reuters reported in January, the five Romney sons enjoy tax-free income from a $100 million trust fund on which no gift taxes were paid. Only about $2 million could have originally gone into the trust without triggering gift taxes.

[airdvr 197]

Quote

Romney wants to greatly increase dynastic wealth by eliminating the estate tax, which would have a devastating effect on future economic growth, entrepreneurship and social stability. His plan would retain the gift tax, but it is already so porous that, as Reuters reported in January, the five Romney sons enjoy tax-free income from a $100 million trust fund on which no gift taxes were paid. Only about $2 million could have originally gone into the trust without triggering gift taxes.

And you say this as if he's some sort of criminal. He uses the tax code to his advantage. Most people do.
Certainly the 47% of people not paying in 2011 did. Do you see the paradigm?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Do we really have to do this again?

once a week until February. Twice a week in October.

[SkydiveJonathan 0]

Quote

people not paying in.

Like Romney's sons with their unearned and untaxed income.

[airdvr 197]

Quote

Quote

Do we really have to do this again?

once a week until February. Twice a week in October.

I must have missed the memo. When was the last time this was discussed?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 197]

Quote

Quote

people not paying in.

Like Romney's sons with their unearned and untaxed income.

Are you saying it's illegal or are you simply jealous?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkydiveJonathan 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

people not paying in.

Like Romney's sons with their unearned and untaxed income.

Are you saying it's illegal or are you simply jealous?

They're mooching off the system - are you not concerned?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Do we really have to do this again?

once a week until February. Twice a week in October.

I must have missed the memo. When was the last time this was discussed?

Thursday.

[kallend 1,620]

Quote

Quote

Romney wants to greatly increase dynastic wealth by eliminating the estate tax, which would have a devastating effect on future economic growth, entrepreneurship and social stability. His plan would retain the gift tax, but it is already so porous that, as Reuters reported in January, the five Romney sons enjoy tax-free income from a $100 million trust fund on which no gift taxes were paid. Only about $2 million could have originally gone into the trust without triggering gift taxes.

And you say this as if he's some sort of criminal. He uses the tax code to his advantage. Most people do.
Certainly the 47% of people not paying in 2011 did. Do you see the paradigm?

And you say this as if you can see no difference whatsoever between someone with a $multi-million trust fund who manages to avoid paying taxes, and a homeless person who has no ability to pay taxes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Quote

Quote

Romney wants to greatly increase dynastic wealth by eliminating the estate tax, which would have a devastating effect on future economic growth, entrepreneurship and social stability. His plan would retain the gift tax, but it is already so porous that, as Reuters reported in January, the five Romney sons enjoy tax-free income from a $100 million trust fund on which no gift taxes were paid. Only about $2 million could have originally gone into the trust without triggering gift taxes.

And you say this as if he's some sort of criminal. He uses the tax code to his advantage. Most people do.
Certainly the 47% of people not paying in 2011 did. Do you see the paradigm?

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.

[Hermes70 0]

Zero is not a fair share.

[airdvr 197]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Romney wants to greatly increase dynastic wealth by eliminating the estate tax, which would have a devastating effect on future economic growth, entrepreneurship and social stability. His plan would retain the gift tax, but it is already so porous that, as Reuters reported in January, the five Romney sons enjoy tax-free income from a $100 million trust fund on which no gift taxes were paid. Only about $2 million could have originally gone into the trust without triggering gift taxes.

And you say this as if he's some sort of criminal. He uses the tax code to his advantage. Most people do.
Certainly the 47% of people not paying in 2011 did. Do you see the paradigm?

And you say this as if you can see no difference whatsoever between someone with a $multi-million trust fund who manages to avoid paying taxes, and a homeless person who has no ability to pay taxes.

The homeless person isn't on the ticket. We're in agreement that the tax code needs re-vamped to prevent abuses like the Romney situation and the 47% who pay no federal tax. There's much room for improvement on both ends. But as of today neither has broken a law. So if no law has been broken it's simple class warfare.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 1,620]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Romney wants to greatly increase dynastic wealth by eliminating the estate tax, which would have a devastating effect on future economic growth, entrepreneurship and social stability. His plan would retain the gift tax, but it is already so porous that, as Reuters reported in January, the five Romney sons enjoy tax-free income from a $100 million trust fund on which no gift taxes were paid. Only about $2 million could have originally gone into the trust without triggering gift taxes.

And you say this as if he's some sort of criminal. He uses the tax code to his advantage. Most people do.
Certainly the 47% of people not paying in 2011 did. Do you see the paradigm?

And you say this as if you can see no difference whatsoever between someone with a $multi-million trust fund who manages to avoid paying taxes, and a homeless person who has no ability to pay taxes.

The homeless person isn't on the ticket. We're in agreement that the tax code needs re-vamped to prevent abuses like the Romney situation and the 47% who pay no federal tax. There's much room for improvement on both ends. But as of today neither has broken a law. So if no law has been broken it's simple class warfare.

The law is broken. Trying to claim "class warfare" is just silly.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,116]

Quote

Zero is not a fair share

The vast majority of people who pay zero income tax do pay sales tax, property tax (even if in the form of rent, which always includes the owner's property tax costs), etc.

If there were a flat rate of (say) $25 minimum, what would be the cost of administering that flat rate, and what would be the rate of return to the gummint for collecting it, enforcing it, etc. Would it be worth it? You might bend over to pick up pennies, but not everyone thinks it's worth their while.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Zero is not a fair share

The vast majority of people who pay zero income tax do pay sales tax, property tax (even if in the form of rent, which always includes the owner's property tax costs), etc.

If there were a flat rate of (say) $25 minimum, what would be the cost of administering that flat rate, and what would be the rate of return to the gummint for collecting it, enforcing it, etc. Would it be worth it? You might bend over to pick up pennies, but not everyone thinks it's worth their while.

Wendy P.

But these people (who do not pay federal income taxes) get federal handout dollars

Not all of them, but many of them

So, if they depend on those federal handout dollars, how do you think they migh vote?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,116]

Probably predictably, just as farmers who get big subsidies vote, just as people who vote based on military budgets.

I couldn't agree more that we need to encourage more people (yes, especially welfare recipients) to find ways to invest in the country, and not just take. Do you have any ideas that don't include "starving them out?"

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Probably predictably, just as farmers who get big subsidies vote, just as people who vote based on military budgets.

I couldn't agree more that we need to encourage more people (yes, especially welfare recipients) to find ways to invest in the country, and not just take. Do you have any ideas that don't include "starving them out?"

Wendy P.

Make it as much work to get the welfare as is a job

I know people on unemployment now who just fill out an online doc once a week and they get their money

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

The word fair has become a hot button for me. My flags go up whenever I hear it. I hear Indigo Montoya saying, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

'Fair' when used by politicians seems to mean: To take from those who earned and give to those who keep me in power.

'Fair' when used by voters seems to mean: I want something you have.

Just my observation. Personally, I have yet to hear an explanation of why a flat income tax is not 'fair'. Everyone is invested. Those who earn little, pay little. Those who earn much, pay much.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[mirage62 0]

This is what drives me nuts. It is the super rich or the super poor. These argumemts ALWAYS get pointed that way.

Something like 47% aren't paying Feb taxes - YES they pay local and state. Can someone here tell me at what amount people start paying FEDERAL taxes?

To say that the top 5% pay somewhere around 45% of the total Fed income tax are not paying their fair share.... just seems wrong.

Do the math close to 50% don't pay Fed tax, of the 50% that do 5% are paying close to half of what is paid leaving 45% of the payers to pay 50%

Please the ABOVE is rough numbers. I'm sure someone here has and can point out that the numbers are all wrong......

Spending - ALL OF IT (military, S.S. ect, ect) - must be cut, plus higher taxes is the only way to fix this. A growing econemy is a must. The argument comes from raising taxes before you meaningfully cut spending.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[RonD1120 58]

Quote

The word fair has become a hot button for me. My flags go up whenever I hear it. I hear Indigo Montoya saying, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

'Fair' when used by politicians seems to mean: To take from those who earned and give to those who keep me in power.

'Fair' when used by voters seems to mean: I want something you have.

Just my observation. Personally, I have yet to hear an explanation of why a flat income tax is not 'fair'. Everyone is invested. Those who earn little, pay little. Those who earn much, pay much.

In the last substance use disorder treatment program where I was employed had a frequent mantra. Namely, God is not fair, life is not fair, be grateful. In other words, be thankful for what you have and the implication, be thankful you don't get what you deserve.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,116]

According to a calculator I found for a single person claiming one dependent (i.e. him/herself) it starts at between 9 and 10000/year. Obviously if there are children in the home it goes up. This takes into account the standard deduction, and it shows only wages (i.e. I'm lazy and didn't want to come up with all kinds of scenarios).

I doubt there are that many people in the US who make that little money, but there are, in fact, a whole lot of them who don't have a lot of money.

BTW, at that income level, one is eligible for food stamp assistance. Not for countless dollars of free food, but for some assistance. So the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[davjohns 1]

"substance use disorder" Wow. I didn't know we had changed the name to take out all personal responsibility. What were the symptoms of this disorder before we had abusable substances? Granted, that's been a few years.

People start out with the knowledge that the substance is likely to become addictive psychologically or physically. That hardly seems like a disorder to me.

Sorry for the rant. Just tired of changes in the language to absolve people of responsibility for their actions.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[DanG 1]

Income tax is not the only federal tax. For the working poor, payroll taxes are quite significant. Those are federal taxes.

Studies of the actual numbers show that most of the 47% who pay no federal income taxes are either too poor to pay anything, or still pay a substantial portion of their income in taxes, they just don't owe any income tax.

The idea that 47% of the population is sitting around eating chips bought by the rest of us is not accurate.

And yes, I have a job.

- Dan G