skycop 0 #26 August 24, 2012 Yawn................ You're right, all that training, practice, and experience mean nothing. A few years ago one of my guys was chasing an armed robber in a residential neighborhood. The guy turned around and pointed a gun at him from less than 10ft away. This guy had just robbed a couple at gunpoint. The officer did not fire because of civilians in his backstop, although he was in grave danger. You don't read about those in the news.........and they happen alot more than you think. Hopefully there were no killed/wounded by police gunfire, although it looks like some may have been. So a keyboard warrior comment like that just diminishes your credibility. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #27 August 24, 2012 QuoteYawn................ You're right, all that training, practice, and experience mean nothing. A few years ago one of my guys was chasing an armed robber in a residential neighborhood. The guy turned around and pointed a gun at him from less than 10ft away. This guy had just robbed a couple at gunpoint. The officer did not fire because of civilians in his backstop, although he was in grave danger. You don't read about those in the news.........and they happen alot more than you think. Hopefully there were no killed/wounded by police gunfire, although it looks like some may have been. So a keyboard warrior comment like that just diminishes your credibility. I give a fuck if I have any credibility with you. My statement is valid. While your officer was properly trained and showed self control, it appears not to be the case up there in NY city. So...I'll say it again, wearing a badge does not make anyone a professional (and I'll add) or competent to be a police officer. At least where there are innocent people around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #28 August 24, 2012 QuoteI give a fuck if I have any credibility with you. My statement is valid. While your officer was properly trained and showed self control, it appears not to be the case up there in NY city. So...I'll say it again, wearing a badge does not make anyone a professional (and I'll add) or competent to be a police officer. At least where there are innocent people around. No problem, you can continue to make random assumptions, don't let facts (known or unknown) get in the way. If you can't debate, insult and get emotional. By definition, anyone who completes the hiring process and training ARE professionals, the degree of which varies as in any occupation. I do agree, after that reponse you have no credibility whether you give a hoot or not. Have a nice day................ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jinlee 0 #29 August 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteI give a fuck if I have any credibility with you. My statement is valid. While your officer was properly trained and showed self control, it appears not to be the case up there in NY city. So...I'll say it again, wearing a badge does not make anyone a professional (and I'll add) or competent to be a police officer. At least where there are innocent people around. No problem, you can continue to make random assumptions, don't let facts (known or unknown) get in the way. If you can't debate, insult and get emotional. By definition, anyone who completes the hiring process and training ARE professionals, the degree of which varies as in any occupation. I do agree, after that reponse you have no credibility whether you give a hoot or not. Have a nice day................ Arguing with a cop on the internet is just as silly as doing it in person...... 'cept in person it's life threatening. What we are seeing here is the outlandish antics of shock and awe on American streets. Cops don't shoot one or two shots, they are looking to empty the mag, do a quick reload, it's their training, and it's mindless. All the while there are several officers doing the same thing. How else does a suspect end up with 40 bullet wounds or 9 people shot on a busy street by the police. What really surprises me the most is instead of seeing an investigation like is so often done if it happens during wartime in another country, ie Blackwater guys. There is no investigation done here. It's becoming a common occurrence more and more everyday. Also what we are seeing, is this is happening at the wrong address, to the wrong people, and often. If cops think this is the way they earn respect it's reflected in the little respect given to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #30 August 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteOf note...trained professionals, attempting to stop the gunman in daylight conditions, appear to have also hit innocent people. One only can guess at how many people non-professionals, would have hit. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/nyregion/several-people-shot-one-fatally-outside-empire-state-building.html?hp#p[MKsHsh] Wearing a badge makes no one a professional. Being paid to do it does, though.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #31 August 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI give a fuck if I have any credibility with you. My statement is valid. While your officer was properly trained and showed self control, it appears not to be the case up there in NY city. So...I'll say it again, wearing a badge does not make anyone a professional (and I'll add) or competent to be a police officer. At least where there are innocent people around. No problem, you can continue to make random assumptions, don't let facts (known or unknown) get in the way. If you can't debate, insult and get emotional. By definition, anyone who completes the hiring process and training ARE professionals, the degree of which varies as in any occupation. I do agree, after that reponse you have no credibility whether you give a hoot or not. Have a nice day................ Arguing with a cop on the internet is just as silly as doing it in person. What we are seeing here is the outlandish antics of shock and awe on American streets. Cops don't shoot one or two shots, they are looking to empty the mag, do a quick reload, it's their training, and it's mindless. All the while there are several officers doing the same thing. How else does a suspect end up with 40 bullet wounds or 9 people shot on a busy street by the police. What really surprises me the most is instead of seeing an investigation like is so often done if it happens during wartime in another country, ie Blackwater guys. There is no investigation done here. . I don't know where you got that idea. The last major incident where NYPD overreacted and shot an innocent man resulted in a major investigation and a trial. Google "Amadou Diallo".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #32 August 24, 2012 Ya got me, More of that logic.................. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #33 August 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteI give a fuck if I have any credibility with you. My statement is valid. While your officer was properly trained and showed self control, it appears not to be the case up there in NY city. So...I'll say it again, wearing a badge does not make anyone a professional (and I'll add) or competent to be a police officer. At least where there are innocent people around. No problem, you can continue to make random assumptions, don't let facts (known or unknown) get in the way. If you can't debate, insult and get emotional. By definition, anyone who completes the hiring process and training ARE professionals, the degree of which varies as in any occupation. I do agree, after that reponse you have no credibility whether you give a hoot or not. Have a nice day................ The fact that you needed to add a disclaimer just proves my point. There are professionals that wear badges, having a badge does not make anyone a professional or competent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #34 August 25, 2012 Cops are known for firing large amounts of ammo and not hitting their target..... Gun fights with over a 100 rounds fired and never hitting the bad guy... Just every other thing in site... They are also very good at shooting themselves and other law enforcement ... Most gun training that is used in law enforcement is useless and is only good for killing paper targets... Now that being said, There are police officers that take the time to be gun fighters and get the job done... But "MOST" are paper tigers and not very good at anything other then writing tickets and being assholes... killler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #35 August 25, 2012 This guy was laid off a year ago and suddenly he decides to come back and shoot his emplyer? Something doesn't add up. I suspect there's more to this than an employment issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jinlee 0 #36 August 25, 2012 QuoteThis guy was laid off a year ago and suddenly he decides to come back and shoot his emplyer? Something doesn't add up. I suspect there's more to this than an employment issue. You would be correct in that assumption. They had been involved in a dispute for a year since the firing, filed police reports against each other, it appears that the dead employer was making it difficult for the employee to find work in his field. Employer may have had the mind set of "you'll never work in this town again" employee shot him in the head. The surviving victims include: 35-year-old man from Jamaica, Queens 33-year-old woman from 38th Street, she lives near the shooting 56-year-old woman from the Upper West Side 21-year-old man from the Bronx 35-year-old woman from Chapel Hill, NC 43-year-old woman from Brooklyn 30-year-old woman from the Bronx 35-year-old man from the Bronx 23-year-old man from the Bronx Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne says it's "very likely" all of the 9 bystanders were hit by police gunfire Two officers fired from eight feet away. One officer fired seven times, the other fired nine times. A total of 16 rounds were fired, likely simultaneously.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 August 25, 2012 today's updates say that the shooter was hit by 10 of the 16 police rounds. And 3 of the 9 bystanders were hit by whole bullets, with the other 6 being hit by fragments. In fairness, when I think of the crowd density I'd expect around the Empire State Building, maybe that's not as outrageous a result as it first seems. The problem may be with the 16 rounds part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #38 August 25, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/video/2012/08/24/nyregion/100000001740821/footage-of-gunmans-death-graphic.html-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #39 August 26, 2012 Quote today's updates say that the shooter was hit by 10 of the 16 police rounds. And 3 of the 9 bystanders were hit by whole bullets, with the other 6 being hit by fragments. In fairness, when I think of the crowd density I'd expect around the Empire State Building, maybe that's not as outrageous a result as it first seems. The problem may be with the 16 rounds part. Guess that depends where you were when they opened fire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #40 August 26, 2012 Yep. Perp killed one. Cops killed one and wounded nine. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #41 August 26, 2012 Quotehttp://www.nytimes.com/video/2012/08/24/nyregion/100000001740821/footage-of-gunmans-death-graphic.html never mind then...that wasn't nearly as crowded as I reimagined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #42 August 26, 2012 Quote Yep. Perp killed one. Cops killed one and wounded nine. Ya know, I've heard that when firing a gun, cops statistically hit their target on only one in ten shots. But I had NO IDEA that all other nine shots would hit by-standers. Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #43 August 28, 2012 Most lethal force encounters are within three feet, within three seconds. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #44 August 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteThis guy was laid off a year ago and suddenly he decides to come back and shoot his emplyer? Something doesn't add up. I suspect there's more to this than an employment issue. You would be correct in that assumption. They had been involved in a dispute for a year since the firing, filed police reports against each other, it appears that the dead employer was making it difficult for the employee to find work in his field. Concealed carry permit courses don't require anywhere near as much training as these Police had, makes one question the validity of the concealed carry argument. If this is what Police officers can achieve with their training then surely a armed civilian is likely to me more of a hazard to the public than a help. Employer may have had the mind set of "you'll never work in this town again" employee shot him in the head. The surviving victims include: 35-year-old man from Jamaica, Queens 33-year-old woman from 38th Street, she lives near the shooting 56-year-old woman from the Upper West Side 21-year-old man from the Bronx 35-year-old woman from Chapel Hill, NC 43-year-old woman from Brooklyn 30-year-old woman from the Bronx 35-year-old man from the Bronx 23-year-old man from the Bronx Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne says it's "very likely" all of the 9 bystanders were hit by police gunfire Two officers fired from eight feet away. One officer fired seven times, the other fired nine times. A total of 16 rounds were fired, likely simultaneously.. If this was the result of the work of trained NYPD officers I think we can quite confidently close the argument on what would have happened in the cinema when the 'joker' killer burst in. If there had been people with firearms in there its pretty clear that it would have been an even bigger bloodbath than it already was.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #45 August 28, 2012 Quote Their encounter was over in eight seconds. The officers, who had been standing nearly close enough to shake hands with Johnson and had no opportunity to take cover, fired almost immediately. Quote The suspect was likely shot at least seven times. Close enough to shake hands, and they were less than 50% accurate. Must be pretty stressful when someone close by is pointing a large caliber handgun at you...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #46 August 28, 2012 QuoteIf this was the result of the work of trained NYPD officers I think we can quite confidently close the argument on what would have happened in the cinema when the 'joker' killer burst in. If there had been people with firearms in there its pretty clear that it would have been an even bigger bloodbath than it already was. Yeah, if you believe their training and methods were worth a shit. The were not.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #47 August 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf this was the result of the work of trained NYPD officers I think we can quite confidently close the argument on what would have happened in the cinema when the 'joker' killer burst in. If there had been people with firearms in there its pretty clear that it would have been an even bigger bloodbath than it already was. Yeah, if you believe their training and methods were worth a shit. The were not. Apparently so, so what could we expect of even more poorly trained civilian CCW holders?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #48 August 28, 2012 Why would you wrongly assume someone who does not have a need, but rather a desire for tactical training would be more poorly trained?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #49 August 28, 2012 >Why would you wrongly assume someone who does not have a need, but rather a >desire for tactical training would be more poorly trained? Same reason skydiving instructors often have better skydiving skills than people who just have a desire to make a few fun jumps. There are, of course, some exceptions - but by and large people who are trained to do something and do it often as part of their professional lives are better at it than hobbyists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #50 August 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf this was the result of the work of trained NYPD officers I think we can quite confidently close the argument on what would have happened in the cinema when the 'joker' killer burst in. If there had been people with firearms in there its pretty clear that it would have been an even bigger bloodbath than it already was. Yeah, if you believe their training and methods were worth a shit. The were not. Apparently so, so what could we expect of even more poorly trained civilian CCW holders? Exactly.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
