DanG 1 #51 August 16, 2012 QuoteThe ACA does niether, it takes from those that have health care to pay for those that can't afford health care, nothing more nothing less. How does it do that? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #52 August 16, 2012 Quote Please keep in mind, all this proposal does is allow state governments to apply for specific waivers, it does not remove the federal work requirement. If I read correctly, the Obama administration has changed the nature of what counts as the work requirement.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #53 August 16, 2012 Quote> The ACA does not make health care more affordable it makes it more expensive. It makes it both more and less expensive. Specifically it makes it less expensive for people who currently cannot afford it. >The ACA does niether, it takes from those that have health care to pay for those that >can't afford health care, nothing more nothing less. You just contradicted yourself there. no I did not, The ACA does absolutly nothing to reduce the cost of giving heath care, I dare you to show me one thing in the ACA that does. All the ACA does is levy the cost on those that already have insurance to pay for those that don't have insurance and lowers the payments made to doctors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #54 August 16, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe ACA does niether, it takes from those that have health care to pay for those that can't afford health care, nothing more nothing less. How does it do that? Have you read the taxes levied in the ACA? it taxes those that can afford health care to pay for those that can't afford health care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #55 August 16, 2012 QuoteIf I read correctly, the Obama administration has changed the nature of what counts as the work requirement. I don't remember seeing that, but I'm sure it is possible. My understanding was that they were allowing states to apply for waivers, including changing what they could use for the work requirement. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #56 August 16, 2012 >The ACA does absolutly nothing to reduce the cost of giving heath care Yes, it does. Someone can no longer be denied health insurance due to a pre-existing condition. Thus, someone who has breast cancer can now pay insurance premiums of hundreds a month instead of treatment costs of tens of thousands in direct costs. Hundreds of dollars is less than tens of thousands of dollars. >All the ACA does is levy the cost on those that already have insurance to pay for those >that don't have insurance . . . No, it levies costs on those who have insurance to pay for other people who have insurance. Which is exactly what happens now. What has changed is that by law insurance companies can no longer refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions and cannot drop people as easily as they did before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #57 August 16, 2012 Quote>The ACA does absolutly nothing to reduce the cost of giving heath care Yes, it does. Someone can no longer be denied health insurance due to a pre-existing condition. Thus, someone who has breast cancer can now pay insurance premiums of hundreds a month instead of treatment costs of tens of thousands in direct costs. Hundreds of dollars is less than tens of thousands of dollars. >All the ACA does is levy the cost on those that already have insurance to pay for those >that don't have insurance . . . No, it levies costs on those who have insurance to pay for other people who have insurance. Which is exactly what happens now. What has changed is that by law insurance companies can no longer refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions and cannot drop people as easily as they did before. You need to relearn reading comprehension, I said the ACA does aboslutely nothing to reduce the cost of giving health care. I did not say anthing about making companies pay for treatment of patients. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #58 August 16, 2012 Quoteit taxes those that can afford health care to pay for those that can't afford health care. The main tax in the ACA is the tax on people who can afford health insurance, but choose not to. In that way, I suppose you're right, it taxes people who can afford health insurance. On the other hand, the beneficiary is not people who can't afford health insurance, it is people who can (and do). Right now we have to pay higher insurance premiums to cover people who don't have insurance. Making everyone get insurance should help reduce that burden on those of us with insurance. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #59 August 16, 2012 QuoteQuoteit taxes those that can afford health care to pay for those that can't afford health care. The main tax in the ACA is the tax on people who can afford health insurance, but choose not to. In that way, I suppose you're right, it taxes people who can afford health insurance. On the other hand, the beneficiary is not people who can't afford health insurance, it is people who can (and do). Right now we have to pay higher insurance premiums to cover people who don't have insurance. Making everyone get insurance should help reduce that burden on those of us with insurance. We have to pay higher premiums because health care is expensive and used by those who don't pay, reducing the cost of giving health care would lower premiums and more could afford insurance and that would reduce the cost of insurance even more. Oh I also said getting people a good paying job would help also. we don't need to give handouts we need to stop the government from wasting our money and making people dependant on the government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #60 August 16, 2012 QuoteWe have to pay higher premiums because health care is expensive and used by those who don't pay, reducing the cost of giving health care would lower premiums and more could afford insurance and that would reduce the cost of insurance even more. We have the same problem now, but it's just backdoored in. I agree that reducing the cost of healthcare would be great, but despite its name, the ACA is about health insurance, not healthcare. QuoteOh I also said getting people a good paying job would help also. That would be great, too. Quotewe don't need to give handouts we need to stop the government from wasting our money and making people dependant on the government. I'm trying to get at what you think Obama has done to give people handouts. Repeating this line is not an answer. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #61 August 16, 2012 Quote I'm trying to get at what you think Obama has done to give people handouts Running ads encouraging all sorts of people to sign up for food stamps???We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #62 August 16, 2012 QuoteQuoteWe have to pay higher premiums because health care is expensive and used by those who don't pay, reducing the cost of giving health care would lower premiums and more could afford insurance and that would reduce the cost of insurance even more. We have the same problem now, but it's just backdoored in. I agree that reducing the cost of healthcare would be great, but despite its name, the ACA is about health insurance, not healthcare. QuoteOh I also said getting people a good paying job would help also. That would be great, too. Quotewe don't need to give handouts we need to stop the government from wasting our money and making people dependant on the government. I'm trying to get at what you think Obama has done to give people handouts. Repeating this line is not an answer. The ACA is one of the bigest handouts ever signed into law. it takes hundreds of billions of dollars and gives to others. Do you need more examples? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #63 August 16, 2012 QuoteThe ACA is one of the bigest handouts ever signed into law. it takes hundreds of billions of dollars and gives to others. If you don't want to defend your beliefs, just say so. Quote Do you need more examples? Yes, please. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #64 August 16, 2012 > I said the ACA does aboslutely nothing to reduce the cost of giving health care. Ah, so you are claiming that health insurance coverage has nothing to do with the costs of health care. Fair enough. No one else agrees with that premise, so I'll leave you to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #65 August 16, 2012 Quote> I said the ACA does aboslutely nothing to reduce the cost of giving health care. Ah, so you are claiming that health insurance coverage has nothing to do with the costs of health care. Fair enough. No one else agrees with that premise, so I'll leave you to it. giving people insurance does not lower the cost of health care, the problem with health care is that it costs to much, name one thing in the ACA that lowered the cost of the doctor treating the patient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #66 August 16, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe ACA is one of the bigest handouts ever signed into law. it takes hundreds of billions of dollars and gives to others. If you don't want to defend your beliefs, just say so. Quote Do you need more examples? Yes, please. The ACA gives millions free health insurance paid for by others, nobody should get free anything. Why would someone want to work and produce when they can sit on the couch and get food stamps, rent paid for, and free health insurance? sooner or later the system will collapse on itself and instead of having a few million in trouble we will have tens of millions in trouble. The people collecting these benifits are now slaves to the system because if they try to produce for themselves they loose most of the government handouts and they would be worse off. Lets get these people into jobs and support themselves. cut these slave making benifits and make them support themselves. the government would save billions and this country would be much more productive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #67 August 16, 2012 Quote> I said the ACA does aboslutely nothing to reduce the cost of giving health care. Ah, so you are claiming that health insurance coverage has nothing to do with the costs of health care. Fair enough. No one else agrees with that premise, so I'll leave you to it. see you got this backwards also, health care costs have everything to do with the costs of insurance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #68 August 16, 2012 >The people collecting these benifits . . .cut these slave making benifit Yep, the ACA is just like slavery. (Though I thought you'd go for Hitler right off the bat.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #69 August 16, 2012 When I said I wanted more example, I meant I wanted more examples, not a repeat of your position on the ACA. Do you have any other examples of Obama giving handouts? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #70 August 16, 2012 QuoteWhen I said I wanted more example, I meant I wanted more examples, not a repeat of your position on the ACA. Do you have any other examples of Obama giving handouts? The huge increase in food stamps from the easing of requirements to collect them, paying off the unions at GM to save the union retirement packages but not the non union retirements at Delphi and the billions in tax exemptions for GM, the reductions in principle and interest payments for homeowners that defaulted but no help for the people that paid their mortgages, the 73 week extension on unemployment benifits to those willing to sit on the couch, and the ACA giving insurance to millions. Is this enough for you? no ? How about all his cronnies setting pretty after million dollar saleries they collected on bankrupt green technology companies like solyndra? Obama has so many people sucking on the government that they can't pay the bills. so what does he want to do? take more money from the producers. All these guys want to do is buy votes with the money they take from us. and the votes they are buying is from those sitting back and becoming dependant on the government. that is what free birth control is about, buying votes. If Obama really wanted to show how much he cared for women he could find much better things to go after than birthcontrol. Free birth control is just saying have all the sex you want and we will take care of the responsibilities of that. How about child support from deadbeat dads? making dads take a responsibility for thier children? how about child care so they can work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #71 August 16, 2012 >All these guys want to do is buy votes with the money they take from us. In another thread you were criticizing him for not doing enough for people in trouble, now it's that he's doing too much. > If Obama really wanted to show how much he cared for women he could find much >better things to go after than birthcontrol. Free birth control is just saying have all the >sex you want and we will take care of the responsibilities of that. How about child >support from deadbeat dads? Why not lose the deadbeat dads to begin with? (And free birth control is an excellent way to help accomplish that.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #72 August 16, 2012 Quote>All these guys want to do is buy votes with the money they take from us. In another thread you were criticizing him for not doing enough for people in trouble, now it's that he's doing too much. > If Obama really wanted to show how much he cared for women he could find much >better things to go after than birthcontrol. Free birth control is just saying have all the >sex you want and we will take care of the responsibilities of that. How about child >support from deadbeat dads? Why not lose the deadbeat dads to begin with? (And free birth control is an excellent way to help accomplish that.) Your reading comprehension isn't so good is it? I was critisizing people for not bashing Obama for the same things they bashed Bush for and not doing anything during a disaster. Obama is all about robbing the rich and giving to the poor. he has alot of teams working on that one. As far as the deadbeat dads thing, once again the left is removing personal responsibility from people by paying for birthcontrol. he is saying go enjoy yourself and don't be responsible about it. holding people accountable for their actions would reduce the problems and save millions in free handouts to people, but then they wouldn't get the votes would they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #73 August 16, 2012 >Obama is all about robbing the rich and giving to the poor. And Romney's all about robbing the poor to give to the rich. The only way that doesn't happen either way is to make no changes at all. >As far as the deadbeat dads thing, once again the left is removing personal >responsibility from people by paying for birthcontrol. he is saying go enjoy yourself >and don't be responsible about it. Having sex without birth control for fun = not being responsible Having sex with birth control for fun = being responsible It's like the abortion argument. Want to prevent abortions? Preventing unwanted pregnancies is the #1 best way to accomplish that. Want to prevent deadbeat dads? Prevent unwanted children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #74 August 16, 2012 Quote>Obama is all about robbing the rich and giving to the poor. And Romney's all about robbing the poor to give to the rich. The only way that doesn't happen either way is to make no changes at all. >As far as the deadbeat dads thing, once again the left is removing personal >responsibility from people by paying for birthcontrol. he is saying go enjoy yourself >and don't be responsible about it. Having sex without birth control for fun = not being responsible Having sex with birth control for fun = being responsible It's like the abortion argument. Want to prevent abortions? Preventing unwanted pregnancies is the #1 best way to accomplish that. Want to prevent deadbeat dads? Prevent unwanted children. Why is it my responsibility to pay for birthcontrol for someone? why is it the governments responsibilty to make people responsible? Maybe they should buy my skydiving gear so I can have fun without any consequences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #75 August 16, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteMarkets only work when there is mobility and competition. And well informed consumers. The less accurate the information, the less ideal consumers' decisions will be. The less information available, the more random (or perhaps chaotic) consumers' decisions will be. Ah, yes!.. And so everyone who disagrees with the liberals, is obviously not a 'well-informed consumer' -- therefore liberals are right to make his (or her) decisions FOR him! I was just pointing out that a market economy depends on perfect information. Without it, economic performance will be suboptimal.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
