Socialised healthcare rocks, you Yanks should really try it.

[Skyrad 0]

Seriously we love it in the UK, you really are missing out on a great deal. As one Twitter contributor put it..

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Can you imagine living in a country where people love the healthcare system so much they choreograph happy dances about it? #olympicceremony

I don't know why you haven't done it already.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[StreetScooby 5]

One day, you guys will have to fund your own defense needs. Let's talk then... The 3 dinghies you have now may not suffice.

We are all engines of karma

[Skyrad 0]

Who cares the world loves us

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[StreetScooby 5]

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Who cares the world loves us

I'll let my congressman know.

We are all engines of karma

[Gravitymaster 0]

Did you guys ever get more dentists?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Who cares the world loves us

that the same world that considering the UK the butt buddies of the Americans? Tony Blair and George Bush shared the same brain.

[nanook 1]

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Who cares the world loves us

Of course they do. After all, we absorb all criticisms as being the big bad. . . for your convenience at our expense.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[skypuppy 1]

You may like it in the UK, sure doesn't work very well in canada here....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Socialized healthcare rocks

It does? That's not my experience.

I live in a country that offers "Socialized Healthcare" and I don't have a doctor who knows me. If I need medical help I either need to go to the hospital emergency waiting room (first off not the place to go if your condition is not seriously, secondly not everyone has quick access to a hospital as there aren't that many of them in a very large country). The other place I can go seek help is at a clinic (once again there are not that many of them) where they do NOT know me, where there is more often than not massive line ups and instead of receiving personalized care for whatever condition ails you, the people working at these clinics care more about processing the patients as fast as they can, regardless of how inaccurate their diagnosis may be. If you are lucky enough to get an accurate diagnosis you are then put on a waiting list that could take months or years before the specialist sees you. No the only time our socialized healthcare system ever resembles anything that works is if you are on death's door at the emergency room and can be saved. Oh and don't tell me my "Socialized Healthcare" is free. It's not free. I send large portions of my income going to the government which in turn offers me impersonal long waits and substandard care before I can be diagnosed and even longer waits before I can be actually treated.

Count yourself lucky if your "Socialized Healthcare" gives you rapid, accurate and personalized service. My "Socialized Healthcare" system sucks.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skypuppy 1]

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Seriously we love it in the UK, you really are missing out on a great deal. As one Twitter contributor put it..

Quote

Can you imagine living in a country where people love the healthcare system so much they choreograph happy dances about it? #olympicceremony

I don't know why you haven't done it already.

It sucks in canada. Frankly I believe the substandard care here killed my mother. But that's just one case.

Here's another. In Canada, (or ontario anyways), mri and other procedures are usually only done on day shifts, leading to huge backlogs. This case was in the paper last week.


'A Pelham woman who crossed the border to obtain an MRI weeks earlier than her tentative appointment in Canada was scheduled, will not be reimbursed by OHIP - even though she was hospitalized immediately due to the scan results.

The MRI in Buffalo revealed the woman had had a right hemispheric stroke.

She was stabilized at St. Catharines General Hospital with medication until she underwent surgery days later.

Her appeal of OHIP’s decision not to reimburse her for the MRI she obtained in the U.S. was denied by the Health Services Appeal and Review Board on July 19.

The board’s decision, which does not name the woman, said she began to experience “pins and needles,” “numbness” and “weakness” in her left hand in early March 2009.

It said she saw her family doctor a number of times and in April 2009, began the process to obtain an MRI test in Ontario through that doctor. She also saw a neurologist in St. Catharines and by May 14, 2009 the request for an MRI had been submitted but no appointment date was set.

Over the weekend of May 16, 2009, the woman began to feel worse and the fingers on her left hand curled and were immobile. On May 19, 2009 she arranged to see the neurologist the next day, but didn’t get a diagnosis. The receptionist at the neurologist’s office told her it would take six to eight weeks to obtain an MRI.

The board said the woman felt something was seriously wrong and made her own appointment for an MRI at Seaton Imaging, in Buffalo on May 20, 2009.

That same day she underwent the MRI, the results were sent to her St. Catharines neurologist, who contacted the woman and arranged for her to be seen immediately at St. Catharines General Hospital.

A vascular surgeon told her the MRI revealed the stroke. She was hospitalized and on May 27, 2009 — weeks before she would have received her MRI in Ontario — she underwent a right carotid artery endarterectomy - the removal of material inside the artery - to prevent future strokes.

The woman submitted an OHIP claim for the MRI in August 2009, but was denied funding and appealed. The board decision does not say how much money the woman paid for the procedure.

The board said out-of-country health insurance is paid by OHIP when a person has an emergency condition while outside Canada that is acute, unexpected and requires immediate medical treatment. It’s also covered if prior approval by OHIP has been obtained.

The woman argued through representatives that although her symptoms arose in Canada, the extent of her condition wasn’t known until the May 20, 2009 MRI results.

As a result, she claimed, the condition arose outside of Canada and was unexpected.

She also argued her medical circumstance was an emergency — she was hospitalized the same day as the MRI with surgery days later — and prior approval for the out-of-country MRI could not be applied for or obtained.

But the board sided with OHIP.

It said although the woman was “quite reasonably concerned for her health” and frustrated with the waiting time for an MRI in Ontario, there was no medical evidence that she faced an immediate risk of stroke that prohibited her from seeking prior approval for the MRI.

That’s because once the degree of the blockage was known from the MRI on May 20, 2009, the woman didn’t have surgery right away due to risk. Instead, she was stabilized with medication in hospital until her surgery on May 27.

“The appeal board has no jurisdiction to order OHIP, for compassionate or other reasons, to make a payment that is not permitted under the Act or Regulations,” the board said.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

Who cares the world loves us

that the same world that considering the UK the butt buddies of the Americans? Tony Blair and George Bush shared the same brain.

Yes but we gave them a dancing Voldemort so they forgave us.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

You may like it in the UK, sure doesn't work very well in canada here....

Well move, come on over we've got rom for more, if you tiptoe and stand on the Isle of Wight (Don't bring luggage though as it might be the straw that sinks us)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[winsor 185]

Quote

Quote

Who cares the world loves us

that the same world that considering the UK the butt buddies of the Americans? Tony Blair and George Bush shared the same brain.

Oh, bullshit.

Just where do you come off claiming either Tony Blair or George (W) Bush had anything to do with a brain - not to mention having one in common?

I find the suggestion offensive that people who so gloried in ignorance would sully themselves with anything so pedestrian as a brain.

[ShcShc11 0]

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One day, you guys will have to fund your own defense needs. Let's talk then... The 3 dinghies you have now may not suffice.

16% of U.S GDP is on healthcare
Other Western countries take half and are better quality.


If U.S citizens didn't pay so much to insurance bureaucracy, then we could afford a few more F-22s instead of cancelling them



Cheers! :)
Shc

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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Quote

Socialized healthcare rocks

It does? That's not my experience.

I live in a country that offers "Socialized Healthcare" and I don't have a doctor who knows me. If I need medical help I either need to go to the hospital emergency waiting room (first off not the place to go if your condition is not seriously, secondly not everyone has quick access to a hospital as there aren't that many of them in a very large country). The other place I can go seek help is at a clinic (once again there are not that many of them) where they do NOT know me, where there is more often than not massive line ups and instead of receiving personalized care for whatever condition ails you, the people working at these clinics care more about processing the patients as fast as they can, regardless of how inaccurate their diagnosis may be. If you are lucky enough to get an accurate diagnosis you are then put on a waiting list that could take months or years before the specialist sees you. No the only time our socialized healthcare system ever resembles anything that works is if you are on death's door at the emergency room and can be saved. Oh and don't tell me my "Socialized Healthcare" is free. It's not free. I send large portions of my income going to the government which in turn offers me impersonal long waits and substandard care before I can be diagnosed and even longer waits before I can be actually treated.

Count yourself lucky if your "Socialized Healthcare" gives you rapid, accurate and personalized service. My "Socialized Healthcare" system sucks.

Sorry you're having such a hard time with your health care. From what you're describing, it sounds like you have direct experience. You've given us a description of your negative personal experiences with the health care system. But, what are your positive personal experiences with the U.S. health care system that lead you to believe that the U.S. system is superior in each of the situations that you are comparing?

[airdvr 197]

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Seriously we love it in the UK, you really are missing out on a great deal. As one Twitter contributor put it..

Quote

Can you imagine living in a country where people love the healthcare system so much they choreograph happy dances about it? #olympicceremony

I don't know why you haven't done it already.

If you're starving and someone offers you a cracker, you're going to think that's the best fucking cracker you've ever had.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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what are your positive personal experiences with the U.S. health care system that lead you to believe that the U.S. system is superior in each of the situations that you are comparing?

I lived in CO for 8 years from the beginning of 1998 through to the end of 2005. Yes I had insurance through my employers and for the most part I did not have very many healthcare issues. I did however use the US healthcare system a few times.

1) My first experience with the US healthcare system was after a sports injury where I visited an emergency room in Colorado Springs on a Sunday afternoon. There was no line up, I was seen almost immediately, treated and sent on my way. I can't tell you why there was no lineup at the hospital, but it was a stark contrast with the massive lineups that can take hours and hours experienced north of the border.

2) In 2001 I was taking flight lessons to become a private pilot. Of course before you can solo you need a medical. So I found a local doctor in Boulder who was authorized to do aviation medicals, scheduled an appointment and low and behold for the most part I was healthy but he was concerned about my blood pressure (high blood pressure does run in my family). He put me on medication and took me on as a regular patient of his. From here on out, several times a year I would need to visit him as he took an interest in my condition. I would schedule an appointment, show up to his office, wait no more than 10 minutes once at the facility and then be escorted into one of the private treatment rooms, wait a couple of more minutes where the doctor would enter holding my file. He examined me, possibly gave me the same or a new prescription and sent me on my way.

As I said, I had healthcare insurance through my US employers and when I did use the US healthcare system I never waited more than 30 minutes and got what appeared to be excellent personalized service. Contrast this with the current "Socialized System" I have returned to where having your own doctor who knows you is just not in the cards for many people these days, where waiting hour upon hour before you are seen and when you are seen it is a very impersonal service. This is the norm not just for myself but the norm for millions of other Canuckleheads. Anyone who thinks the "Socailized Healthcare" system in Canuckistan is working is just not paying attention. The US system is far from perfect, but as long as you are insured, it is a million times better than what is available up here.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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1) My first experience with the US healthcare system was after a sports injury where I visited an emergency room in Colorado Springs on a Sunday afternoon. There was no line up, I was seen almost immediately, treated and sent on my way. I can't tell you why there was no lineup at the hospital, but it was a stark contrast with the massive lineups that can take hours and hours experienced north of the border.

Sounds like you definitely lucked out on that one!

A few years ago, my wife and I were at Z-Hills and she tripped on the RV step as she was letting our dog out for a walk around 1:30 am. Her ankle immediately turned purple and swelled up to the size of a softball. I took her to the E.R. at the Z-Hills Florida Hospital. It was around 2:00 a.m. She was crying with pain. I carried her in and first thing - top priority - they made her fill out insurance proof papers which took about twenty minutes and then told us to sit down in the waiting room. We waited for a half hour and then I asked if they could at least give her an ice pack. They grudgingly provided one (and charged us $30 for it later). TWO HOURS later, they got us into a booth in the E.R. area. Nobody had yet come to even take a look at her ankle. Several times I pleaded with the staff to at least get an x-ray. We waited in the booth for about an hour and a half before the portable x-ray machine arrived and they got the x-ray. Another hour and a half went by and they had a shift change. By now my wife was getting pretty cold, so we asked for more blankets. A half hour later, they gave her a couple of extra blankets. We waited for another hour. By then it was around 8:30 a.m. and nobody had seen her to tell her what the x-ray showed. We'd had enough and threatened to just walk out of the E.R. and a few minutes later a real doctor showed up and told my wife that her ankle was probably not broken, just severely sprained. The doctor said somebody would be by with a splint for her ankle. After waiting for another half hour, we walked out (I wheeled my wife out in one of the hospital wheel chairs). We drove to a nearby medical supply store and purchased a set of crutches.

A severely sprained ankle which we though was certainly broken at first, and here is the bill:

"Non-sterile supplies" -> $181.75
"sterile supply" -> $ 68.25
"DX X-Ray" -> $428.25
"Emergency Room" -> $409.00

On our way home we stopped in Douglassville (near Atlanta, GA) to visit a friend and my wife was still in a lot of pain. So we decided it would be prudent go to the Emergency room there. That time it only took a couple of hours for them to get another xray, confirm that it wasn't broken and put a splint on it. In that case, they charged us $1005 (not itemized) for that visit.

ETA: While wait times do seem to be the biggest gripe that Canadians have with their system (which isn't exactly a purely "socialist" system. It's still a good system when compared to the U.S. There are factors other than wait time that are important too, not the least of which is cost and access.

Here's some recent info. -> CLICKY

[davjohns 1]

I've been mulling over an email I received the other day. Generally, it described two patients.

One went to the doctor, didn't wait long, got X-rays, the doctor looked at the X-rays, doctor treated and gave a prescription. Competent and friendly treatment. Everyone knew the patient's name on sight. Pay on the way out a reasonable fee for services and go on with life.

Second patient made an appointment with the doctor, waited in the waiting area, waited in the treatment room, talked briefly to the doctor, got x-rays, x-rays went to a specialist to read them, patient waited a couple of hours for this to run its course, doctor sent the patient home with a referral. Patient waited a couple of weeks for the specialist, went through the waiting routine again, more x-rays and waiting, the specialist finally saw the patient and gave a prescription. Patient paid a second co-pay on the way out. Insurance messed up. Patient had to pay more and fight with the insurance company to get it to do its part. Many of the people throughout the process seemed competent, but not terribly friendly. Nobody knew the patient's name.

I find both of these scenarios true to personal experience. The first patient was my golden doodle (dog). The second was my wife.

I find it interesting that vets can treat a patient in house with little problem, but MDs seem to always need a specialist or a second opinion, take very long, aren't as friendly, and get paid loads more for being less friendly and less competent. But I'm sure Obamacare will fix that.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

I've been mulling over an email I received the other day. Generally, it described two patients.

One went to the doctor, didn't wait long, got X-rays, the doctor looked at the X-rays, doctor treated and gave a prescription. Competent and friendly treatment. Everyone knew the patient's name on sight. Pay on the way out a reasonable fee for services and go on with life.

Second patient made an appointment with the doctor, waited in the waiting area, waited in the treatment room, talked briefly to the doctor, got x-rays, x-rays went to a specialist to read them, patient waited a couple of hours for this to run its course, doctor sent the patient home with a referral. Patient waited a couple of weeks for the specialist, went through the waiting routine again, more x-rays and waiting, the specialist finally saw the patient and gave a prescription. Patient paid a second co-pay on the way out. Insurance messed up. Patient had to pay more and fight with the insurance company to get it to do its part. Many of the people throughout the process seemed competent, but not terribly friendly. Nobody knew the patient's name.

I find both of these scenarios true to personal experience. The first patient was my golden doodle (dog). The second was my wife.

I find it interesting that vets can treat a patient in house with little problem, but MDs seem to always need a specialist or a second opinion, take very long, aren't as friendly, and get paid loads more for being less friendly and less competent. But I'm sure Obamacare will fix that.

Obamacare isn't designed to fix that. I have very good insurance and a very good HMO and I have had similarly bad experiences. I have also had a lot of good experiences. This nothing to do with Obamacare. Obamacare is designed to get the U.S. closer to a system of universal health care in which all Americans will have access to affordable health care. I think it's a flawed approach, but it's an improvement. What we really need (and will inevitably end up with) is a single-payer system.

[davjohns 1]

Not trying to argue over Obamacare. I really don't think anyone knows what all it requires or what the impact will be. I would just think that 2,000 pages of legislation would actually attempt to fix something fundamental. Everyone already had access at the county hospital and county health clinics. So, what did 2,000 pages and an unknown number of dollars fix? Make sure everyone has equally bad healthcare?

As another anecdote, we took my wife to the doctor's office that has "Urgent Care" in their name. It took three hours to get to see the doctor so the doctor could sign a form for the Army. There was nothing actually wrong with my wife; I had already filled out the form; there was only one other patient in the place; we paid a co-pay and insurance paid another $200. My wife took her son to the Health Department to get his shots updated for school yesterday. It took about an hour and cost nothing. I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but there certainly is one. And I don't think it is in availability, insurance, or who pays. I think its in excessive legislation and rules. Just my guess on the matter.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Not trying to argue over Obamacare. I really don't think anyone knows what all it requires or what the impact will be. I would just think that 2,000 pages of legislation would actually attempt to fix something fundamental. Everyone already had access at the county hospital and county health clinics. So, what did 2,000 pages and an unknown number of dollars fix? Make sure everyone has equally bad healthcare?

I'm pretty sure I was talking about access to affordable health care. We can't afford a system in which millions of people get their health care at emergency rooms.

Enough already with the 2,000 pages!
It has a table of contents, you know?

If it were only 100 pages long, you'd probably complain that it's too short.

Quote

As another anecdote, we took my wife to the doctor's office that has "Urgent Care" in their name. It took three hours to get to see the doctor so the doctor could sign a form for the Army. There was nothing actually wrong with my wife; I had already filled out the form; there was only one other patient in the place; we paid a co-pay and insurance paid another $200. My wife took her son to the Health Department to get his shots updated for school yesterday. It took about an hour and cost nothing. I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but there certainly is one. And I don't think it is in availability, insurance, or who pays. I think its in excessive legislation and rules. Just my guess on the matter.

The Health Department?? Isn't that a socialist organization?

I've had similar experiences. Over here they call it "Convenient Care". It's not always convenient, needless to say.

Honestly, I don't think it will ever be possible to devise a large health care system that isn't going to be challenged by bureaucracy, periodic personnel shortages, periods of high demand, some fraud, and some inefficiency. If we can't work together to make our system work, it won't matter what type of system we have.

[davjohns 1]

I don't think I was complaining at all. I think I said I don't think anyone knows what the document says or what the effects will be. Hard to complain about something when you don't know anything about it and doubt anyone else does, either.

As for a better system? Seems the veterinarians have it figured out without any legislation at all.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

I don't think I was complaining at all. I think I said I don't think anyone knows what the document says or what the effects will be. Hard to complain about something when you don't know anything about it and doubt anyone else does, either.

As for a better system? Seems the veterinarians have it figured out without any legislation at all.

So, you have no problem with euthanasia, and forced sterilization then?

If your dog can't afford treatment, you can let him die!

Veterinary health care isn't dominated by insurance companies.

[davjohns 1]

You got my point with the last line.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.