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piisfish

massive shooting at Batman projection...

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I have yet to read or hear any thing stating he did, or had served in a venue to suffer from PTSD.



There is a "new & improved" definition of PTSD. I know of a six year, never left the US, reservist drawing 100% for PTSD. Evidently, his combat training caused him distress. :S

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The proposed rule is not limited to veterans of current conflicts. “It can be any veterans of any period of service” who have been diagnosed with PTSD and “experienced, witnessed or was confronted with an event or circumstance that involved actual, or threat of, death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of the veteran,” Flohr said.

Under current regulations, veterans who were not in actual combat must develop evidence, and submit considerable documentation, to show that fear of injury or death caused their chronic post-traumatic stress.

The proposed rule would recognize that servicemembers don’t need to be in combat to experience intense fear and, depending on the individual, that fear may linger and become debilitating, even when individuals are removed from a threatening environment.


SOURCE: http://www.legion.org/veteransupdate/3104/rule-aims-ease-ptsd-claims


Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Good job all those CCW holders were around to prevent this.



So we can put you down as wanting more licensed concealed carry holders to increase the odds of someone being onsite to stop things like this?



No individual carrying around a 1911 was ever going to stop this guy. This sort of thing is not a realistic reason to carry a weapon unless somebody is suggesting carrying AKs.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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You cannot legislate or control your way to this not happening. This will always happen as it always has. There will always be fat people like there always has. You cannot find a solution because there isn't one. as long as man has free will and he always will these things will happen. So make it a crime (check), punish that crime (check), and allow law abiding citizens to protect themselves if they choose (check).



I don't agree with that statement. Smoking prevelance is an example that societal behaviour can be changed over time.

People still smoke, but numbers are certainly way down over the last 40 years.

It took a combination of regulation and education, yet keeping cigarettes legal for those who wanted to enjoy them.



Smoking is down bc of education.. I will grant you that. People now actually believe it kills you when you do it but regulation.... no.

Bill... we do a lot to keep this from happening. We should do more I agree... like teach people to respect firearms. Perhaps promote carrying a firearm legally. Get rid of the gun free zones so we stop telling those that own guns illegally that there are no other guns in the area.
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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Good job all those CCW holders were around to prevent this.



So we can put you down as wanting more licensed concealed carry holders to increase the odds of someone being onsite to stop things like this?



No individual carrying around a 1911 was ever going to stop this guy. This sort of thing is not a realistic reason to carry a weapon unless somebody is suggesting carrying AKs.



Please explain how you have come to state this as if it is fact? Why could't a CCW holder with a 1911 stop this guy?
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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Smoking is down bc of education.. I will grant you that. People now actually believe it kills you when you do it but regulation.... no.



Oh I think that taxation driving up costs for the consumer has played a part as well. As has increased health insurance premiums.

But I don't want to draw any comparison between smoking and incidents like today in Aurora. Just indicating that change can indeed be affected, in response to your argument that nothing can possibly be done.

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Good job all those CCW holders were around to prevent this.


So we can put you down as wanting more licensed concealed carry holders to increase the odds of someone being onsite to stop things like this?


No individual carrying around a 1911 was ever going to stop this guy. This sort of thing is not a realistic reason to carry a weapon unless somebody is suggesting carrying AKs.


Please explain how you have come to state this as if it is fact? Why could't a CCW holder with a 1911 stop this guy?



Body armor and the fact that in this audience it's highly likely there were more than one who was carrying, yet nobody stopped him, not even the police. The way this ended was the guy was sitting in the parking lot and just gave up. Didn't resist.

I mean, I guess a guy could theoretically fire a magic BB, but the fact is with this guy as heavily armed as he was and wearing body armor, he wasn't going to realistically be stopped by even the better than average carrier.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Good job all those CCW holders were around to prevent this.


So we can put you down as wanting more licensed concealed carry holders to increase the odds of someone being onsite to stop things like this?


No individual carrying around a 1911 was ever going to stop this guy. This sort of thing is not a realistic reason to carry a weapon unless somebody is suggesting carrying AKs.


Please explain how you have come to state this as if it is fact? Why could't a CCW holder with a 1911 stop this guy?



Body armor and the fact that in this audience it's highly likely there were more than one who was carrying, yet nobody stopped him, not even the police. The way this ended was the guy was sitting in the parking lot and just gave up. Didn't resist.

I mean, I guess a guy could theoretically fire a magic BB, but the fact is with this guy as heavily armed as he was and wearing body armor, he wasn't going to realistically be stopped by even the better than average carrier.




That is your opinion. not fact... we will never know and you do not know if anyone was carrying in that cinema. That is all irrelevant though... a person carrying a 1911 could have stopped him but that didn't happen. I wish it did but it didn't.
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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Ya know, if just once in all of these types of shootings a guy would step up and stop it the moment it started saving dozens of lives in the process...you'd have a point.

Has never happened.

Even the Secret Service didn't stop Hinkly. He just ran out of bullets.

Carry a weapon to save yourself from getting strong armed by a punk, but you're just not going to stop a guy like this. You're not.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Ya know, if just once in all of these types of shootings a guy would step up and stop it the moment it started saving dozens of lives in the process...you'd have a point.

Has never happened.

Even the Secret Service didn't stop Hinkly. He just ran out of bullets.

Carry a weapon to save yourself from getting strong armed by a punk, but you're just not going to stop a guy like this. You're not.



False! Yes you can stop a guy like this. Do you have any idea the energy and power of a .45? When someone gets shot while wearing a bullet proof vest do you think it does not even phase them... like in some movies? A .45 round shot in to your chest while wearing body armor will still knock you on your ass and hurt like a b&%tch!

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22560

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQsbdXQuZI
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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You're right. We should all start carrying white flags.
uncle.
[:/]



I'm not suggesting that.

What I am suggesting is people get a bit more realistic when thinking about how arming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Ya know, if just once in all of these types of shootings a guy would step up and stop it the moment it started saving dozens of lives in the process...you'd have a point.

Has never happened.

Even the Secret Service didn't stop Hinkly. He just ran out of bullets.

Carry a weapon to save yourself from getting strong armed by a punk, but you're just not going to stop a guy like this. You're not.



Again

It could be in this case because those who are licensed to carry did not because of the theaters policies of no guns

I have been looking at their site but, this chain is in Iowa and they have the no gun signs

In any event

Your post here shows a lack of knowelge on self defense

There was a story just yesterday where an eldery man stopped two armed men robbing a store

He shot one of them
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Have you ever tried to get a babysitter at midnight on a week night? :S



nope, I stay home with my kid and see the movie later


I'll play devil's advocate here. A - there are reports of gun shot injuries in the next theater over, B - three month olds are totally incapable of comprehending violence or scariness in movies (although I wouldn't think the volume and flashes of light/sudden sounds would be well advised) and C - three month olds are rarely on much of a circadian rythm, so 3 AM or 3 PM are not all that different from their perspective. Do I think it wise to take a 3 month old to a late night showing of what's sure to be a dark action movie? No. But it's not going to destroy that child's life either (unless some nut walks in and starts shooting).

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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Smoking is down bc of education.. I will grant you that. People now actually believe it kills you when you do it but regulation.... no.



Oh I think that taxation driving up costs for the consumer has played a part as well. As has increased health insurance premiums.



I agree that these might all have some small part.

I also suspect, that even without regulation and commercials and taxes, that people are just a lot more educated in general and smarter than they used to be. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how stupid and smelly and idiotic smoking is. I suspect the generations are just getting smarter and more kids just make the better decisions.

Even our hard core smokers are moving to the vapor cigs at the DZ. Those are good inventions in response to smarter people creating a new demand.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Worked fine her in Orlando just a few days ago.
That old man scared the bejesus out of the two punks trying to rob the internet cafe.

B|



I must have missed the part of the story about the Internet cafe where the punks were armed with numerous weapons, were wearing body armor, tossed in tear gas and immediately started firing at anything that moved.

You're creating a highly false equivalency between the two situations.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Good job all those CCW holders were around to prevent this.


So we can put you down as wanting more licensed concealed carry holders to increase the odds of someone being onsite to stop things like this?


No individual carrying around a 1911 was ever going to stop this guy. This sort of thing is not a realistic reason to carry a weapon unless somebody is suggesting carrying AKs.


Please explain how you have come to state this as if it is fact? Why could't a CCW holder with a 1911 stop this guy?



Body armor and the fact that in this audience it's highly likely there were more than one who was carrying, yet nobody stopped him, not even the police. The way this ended was the guy was sitting in the parking lot and just gave up. Didn't resist.

I mean, I guess a guy could theoretically fire a magic BB, but the fact is with this guy as heavily armed as he was and wearing body armor, he wasn't going to realistically be stopped by even the better than average carrier.




That is your opinion. not fact... we will never know and you do not know if anyone was carrying in that cinema. That is all irrelevant though... a person carrying a 1911 could have stopped him but that didn't happen. I wish it did but it didn't.



I couldn't have stopped him.
_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

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What I am suggesting is people get a bit more realistic when thinking about how arming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event.



of course, in that vein, people should also be a bit more realistic when thinking about how DISarming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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What I am suggesting is people get a bit more realistic when thinking about how arming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event.



of course, in that vein, people should also be a bit more realistic when thinking about how DISarming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event



Who in this thread has suggested disarming everyone?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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False! Yes you can stop a guy like this. Do you have any idea the energy and power of a .45?



I think that if anyone was carrying in the theator, then:

1 - He or she would have to notice that they are in a dark area absolutely FULL of bystanders.

2 - Perhaps the carry holder would also realize that the theator walls are thin and the next room would also be full of innocents as well

3 - Lots of nuts at these showings are dressed up, like the shooter. Dark theator combined with nutbag might make it hard to find the shooter anyway.

4 - Combine a difficult target to find, along with my first couple of points that even to shoot at the guy in the theator creates a huge risk to the others.

5 - for that matter - yes, a .45 has a lot of power and even if you hit the shooter, you still might hit another person. Self defense should tactical, not spray and pray



conclusion: I'm very pleased with any hypothetical carry holder that had the reasoning to withhold any shot except for the ideal shot - which likely didn't present itself. It's a tribute to the training and argument that responsible CCW holders deserve their permits.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Who in this thread has suggested disarming everyone?



about as many people that suggested arming everyone


edit: i thought it was a good application of one of Billvon's tactics that I appreciate

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Ya know, if just once in all of these types of shootings a guy would step up and stop it the moment it started saving dozens of lives in the process...you'd have a point.

Has never happened.

Even the Secret Service didn't stop Hinkly. He just ran out of bullets.

Carry a weapon to save yourself from getting strong armed by a punk, but you're just not going to stop a guy like this. You're not.



I agree that it's unlikely that I'll ever stop a crime like this, but not because my .40 cal isn't up to the task, it's just highly unlikely that I'll ever find myself close to such a situation. That said, with 12 people dead and 50 wounded at a non-drinking establishment in a decent neighborhood, well let's just say this makes me want to carry a bit more often than my fiance would like. I can't carry to/from work, and we don't go out much except for quick trips to the grocery store, but on the occasions that we're out in public for extended periods of time, I'd like to be in a better position to protect her, myself, and those around us if need be. I got the permit for a reason and should probably put it to use more often.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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Ya know, if just once in all of these types of shootings a guy would step up and stop it the moment it started saving dozens of lives in the process...you'd have a point.

Has never happened.

Even the Secret Service didn't stop Hinkly. He just ran out of bullets.

Carry a weapon to save yourself from getting strong armed by a punk, but you're just not going to stop a guy like this. You're not.



Forgotten the CO church shooting too it seems
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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