kallend 1,623 #101 July 18, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Cutting taxes some may lead to slightly more tax revenue … Uh, no. We're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve for that. I meant to say slightly for both. Ran some numbers off of a base of 100, if taxes are extremely low to begin with it does take far more to break even or profit from a tax cut, but with a higher tax rate, a small decrease becomes more easy to compensate with additional growth. It's only possible with additional growth, which a tax cut can stimulate, but there's no way to show a direct correlation either way. As previously stated, our tax rates are already on the wrong side of the peak of the curve for that to happen.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #102 July 18, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Cutting taxes some may lead to slightly more tax revenue … Uh, no. We're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve for that. I meant to say slightly for both. Ran some numbers off of a base of 100, if taxes are extremely low to begin with it does take far more to break even or profit from a tax cut, but with a higher tax rate, a small decrease becomes more easy to compensate with additional growth. It's only possible with additional growth, which a tax cut can stimulate, but there's no way to show a direct correlation either way. As previously stated, our tax rates are already on the wrong side of the peak of the curve for that to happen. Agreed. In the situation we're in now, tax cuts would almost be as stupid as trying to spend ourselves out of debt. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #103 July 18, 2012 >This "malfunction" if landed as is is not survivable. Cutting spending is like firing the >reserve at that altitude. Well, no. To extend the analogy, cutting spending is like cutting away; it will make matters worse, but some people might only know one way to deal with such problems. To them, their only tool is that cutaway handle, so they look for all their solutions there. Keynesian spending is akin to dumping your reserve. To some people, it sounds wrong; you are ADDING to the mess! Messy deployments are what got you here in the first place! But if that improves matters (i.e. the economy recovers) _then_ it makes sense to do that cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #104 July 18, 2012 Quote>This "malfunction" if landed as is is not survivable. Cutting spending is like firing the >reserve at that altitude. Well, no. To extend the analogy, cutting spending is like cutting away; it will make matters worse, but some people might only know one way to deal with such problems. To them, their only tool is that cutaway handle, so they look for all their solutions there. Keynesian spending is akin to dumping your reserve. To some people, it sounds wrong; you are ADDING to the mess! Messy deployments are what got you here in the first place! But if that improves matters (i.e. the economy recovers) _then_ it makes sense to do that cutaway. Keynesian spending, of course, needs to be balanced by Keynesian saving when times are good. Something that our politicians seem to have forgotten.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #105 July 18, 2012 analogies are fun - You're in a boat that's filling up with water and sinking due to a hole. Keynesian spending is like adding a bigger hole and calling it a drain - in an attempt to save the boat. alternatively for you taxing advocates - Reducing taxes is like punching a whole bunch of holes in the boat because the only tool you have is a spike. My economic philosophy leans to the first one, but, either way - analogies are fun ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #106 July 18, 2012 Quote analogies are fun - You're in a boat that's filling up with water and sinking due to a hole. Keynesian spending is like adding a bigger hole and calling it a drain - in an attempt to save the boat. My sailboat had (along with most sailboats, I suspect) had exactly that. It is called a "self bailer". Works like a charm. As you say, analogies can be a problem... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #107 July 18, 2012 Quote It is called a "self bailer". Works like a charm. suspect you have to be moving pretty well and not in the doldrums..... interesting analogy when we come back to the whole point of "it depends where you put the hole" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #108 July 18, 2012 Quote interesting analogy when we come back to the whole point of "it depends where you put the hole" Are you trying to get the thread moved to Bonfire?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #109 July 18, 2012 Worth watching. Incredibly sobering, and frightening. United States Budget DilemmaWe are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #110 July 18, 2012 Quote In the situation we're in now, tax cuts would almost be as stupid as trying to spend ourselves out of debt. I don't think anyone has suggested "trying to spend ourselves out of debt."Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #111 July 18, 2012 Quote Quote interesting analogy when we come back to the whole point of "it depends where you put the hole" Are you trying to get the thread moved to Bonfire? a noble goal - it would cost us a case of ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #112 July 18, 2012 Quote Quote In the situation we're in now, tax cuts would almost be as stupid as trying to spend ourselves out of debt. I don't think anyone has suggested "trying to spend ourselves out of debt." Cash for Clunkers, stimulus checks, not ending the tax cuts... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #113 July 18, 2012 Quote Quote Quote In the situation we're in now, tax cuts would almost be as stupid as trying to spend ourselves out of debt. I don't think anyone has suggested "trying to spend ourselves out of debt." Cash for Clunkers, stimulus checks, not ending the tax cuts... Those programs were not attempts to reduce the debt. There were (and are) more pressing economic issues than deficit spending and public debt.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #114 July 18, 2012 Quote Quote I don't think anyone has suggested "trying to spend ourselves out of debt." not ending the tax cuts... Someone who recognizes that -(-1) = +1... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
