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brenthutch

Electric cars = 3112 sales ,Ford F series = 55025 in June

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“Under my plan of a cap and trade system electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Businesses would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that cost onto consumers.” - Barack Obama

Mmm mmm mmm...Barack Hussein Obama!
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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>You talk as if the liberals have the market cornered on great ideas.

?? Not at all. Fried twinkies were a great idea too.



One of your better analogy's

Fried twinkies go over well at the Iowa State Fair

Which goes to show that all fads have their place
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Well, I got to throw my 2 cents in to this.

I identify with the "Tea Party" but I also think that electric cars are going to be the way of the future. There are some things that were missed in the articles, particularly about Tesla and battery technology:

Tesla- The article only accounts for cars paid for and on the road. Tesla sold it's first 5,000 Model S's a while ago and they will all be delivered by the end of the year. 20,000 more will be sold next year, and if you don't act fast, those will be gone also.

Battery Technology- While electric cars are expensive now, in the next 3 years you are going to see them cut in half. What does that mean? A $50,000 Tesla will go for $35,000 and the top of the line $90,000 will go for around $65,000 (rough estimates based on battery size and cost of a roadster battery at $40,000). This is because of a recent breakthrough in anode / cathode technology.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/yonicohen/2012/03/21/envias-energy-dense-battery-could-cut-electric-vehicle-costs/

Why will Tesla succeed? first of all, it's not a Chevy volt. Where Chevy went wrong is that they built the $40,000 Volt on a $16,000 Chevy cruze body. Who wants to pay $40,000 for a car that feels like $16,000 when you drive it?

People will, however pay $90,000 for a BMW X5, Mercedes CLK, Audi A7, etc, etc, etc... Why? Because the car feels like a $90,000 car. If you read up on Tesla's design (lowest center of gravity of any car...ever, lowest drag co-efficient...ever, perfect center of gravity, safety, etc, etc, etc) and from what people are saying now that it is on the road, you feel like you are driving a $90,000 car. And the price will go down.

Battery technology, driven by consumer electrics, gas prices ($8 a gallon in some countries), and a host of other factors were going to put electric vehicles on the road sooner or later anyway. Now that the first viable electric car is on the road, you are going to see a lot of people playing catchup.

When the new battery technology and competition start to really effect the cars price in 3 years, I will probably buy mine.

And won't you look like a fool when they start winning NASCAR......:)

Edited to add:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2012/02/13/why-the-tesla-model-x-is-a-home-run/

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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They're getting better, but they're still too short-ranged (true EVs), and still too expensive. When you get them into the same overall driving range and price as IC cars (with some way to quickly 'gas-up' the EV) is when you'll see them take off.

Until then, they'll be primarily used for short commutes or as show-off toys.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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I don't commute anywhere near the range the 4 door Tesla is getting.
It would take me 3 weeks to use the charge.
I burn $100 or more a week with a big v-8 truck.
I'd love the reduced cost. For commuting anyway. I do need a truck for towing though.

When can we expect a long range electric Tug?

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And if everyone keeps making fun of them and saying that they're only for kelp-eating flakes, then it'll take a long long time for them to get any better, won't it.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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>And if everyone keeps making fun of them and saying that they're only for kelp-eating
>flakes, then it'll take a long long time for them to get any better, won't it.

I'm not too worried about that. Naysayers have been dissing everything from incandescent bulbs to hybrids for centuries. Technology advances anyway - and with the current popularity of EV's and PHEV's it's going to get a boost as the market broadens.

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They're getting better, but they're still too short-ranged (true EVs), and still too expensive. When you get them into the same overall driving range and price as IC cars (with some way to quickly 'gas-up' the EV) is when you'll see them take off.

Until then, they'll be primarily used for short commutes or as show-off toys.



I wouldn't call 300 miles a short commute. I could take a car like that our for a day.

Like I said, the car costs as much as a luxury car, but if it feels and drives like a luxury car, people will buy it. People still buy the BMW M6 right? It cost more and is even less practical.

And as I stated earlier, in three years you will see cost go down and range go up dramatically. ;)
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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Well, I got to throw my 2 cents in to this.

I identify with the "Tea Party"




Figures. Birds of a feather, and all that.


And in all of those pictures I noticed no one was shitting in the streets, setting things on fire, or destroying public property.

I also noticed that everyone was clean and showered and that there were no rape trauma tents set up in the back ground. Interesting....

Birds of a Feather....:ph34r:
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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In the 1970's and 1980's few people thought that fuel injection made sense.



In the 70's fuel injection didn't make a lot of sense. It was expensive.

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In the 1990's conservatives were fervently against hybrid vehicles. A waste of money. They'd never work. The batteries will die. They'll be too expensive. People buy them just to be smug. Smart people never will buy them. They make no sense.



In the 90's they WERE a waste of money. Hell as of 2005 it took 7 years to break even given the added cost of the hybrid vs buying the gas powered equivalent. In the 90's the batteries DIDN'T work, they were heavy, expensive, didn't hold a charge very long, and developed memory.

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nowadays car companies are adopting hybrid technology to sell more cars.



Yes, amazing what 20 years of technological advances can do.

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In the 1990's conservatives were strongly against alternative energy. Wind power, solar power, biomass, you name it. They were wastes of money



And in the 90's they WERE wastes of time. Soledra ring a bell?

That was then, this is now. Progress can be good..... Early adoption of unproven technologies is not always the smart move. That being said, I am ALL for individuals risking their own money to try and make a better mouse trap. There was no way I would have bough a hybrid in 1990, and I didn't want to buy one in 00. Now 10 years later, my next car *might* be a hybrid.

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>In the 70's fuel injection didn't make a lot of sense. It was expensive.

Agreed. And many people claimed that requiring such a system would bankrupt US car companies.

>That was then, this is now. Progress can be good..... Early adoption of unproven
>technologies is not always the smart move.

Agreed. But quite often, it is. (Keep in mind that EV's have been around since 1850; hybrids since 1900.)

>There was no way I would have bough a hybrid in 1990, and I didn't want to buy
>one in 00. Now 10 years later, my next car *might* be a hybrid.

I think that's true for a lot of people, and that's a good thing. Hybrids are considerably more efficient than 'standard' cars and run on the same fuel (gasoline) which for many is an advantage over a diesel, natural gas or electric vehicle. So it's a good thing that we have that as a realistic option.

The bad part of that is that it took a lot of subsidies (both Japanese and US) to get the car over the adoption barriers, since the technology was initially so expensive that it was not practical. Were all those subsidies worth it? In this case I think it was, since the technology is now mature enough that it's a viable option.

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In any case: EVInsider (one of the OP's links) reports the following sales for June:
Volt: 1760
Leaf: 535
Prius: 695
Focus: 89
Mitsu: 33

Add them all up and you get... 3112 sales for June...imagine that.



And from the same article:
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Toyota Prius Plug-In: 695 Prius plug-ins were sold in 14 states in the US for June of 2012. Overall, Toyota announced sales of 19,150 (vs 4,340 from June 2011) for the entire Prius family of cars. For May Toyota sold 1,086 copies of the plug-in version of its best selling hybrid, down from an all-time high of 1,654.



It's hardly a surprise that plugins are still selling a small number. There are few models, they're extremely new, and many people are not eligible buyers due to cost, lack of ability to plug into a garage, or need for greater range.

But the Prius line of hybrids alone is close to 40% of the F150 sales. Will plugins have that sort of success for them in 10 years? Or maybe not - maybe the hybrid diesel is where we should be. Use the efficient electric motor for acceleration, use the energy density of fuel when the engine is able to run at its most efficient (cruising). Meanwhile battery density can improve.

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It's hardly a surprise that plugins are still selling a small number. There are few models, they're extremely new, and many people are not eligible buyers due to cost, lack of ability to plug into a garage, or need for greater range.



Which is basically what I said about about price and range, no?

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But the Prius line of hybrids alone is close to 40% of the F150 sales. Will plugins have that sort of success for them in 10 years? Or maybe not - maybe the hybrid diesel is where we should be. Use the efficient electric motor for acceleration, use the energy density of fuel when the engine is able to run at its most efficient (cruising). Meanwhile battery density can improve.



How much of an advantage does the hybrid diesel have over the current setup?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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How much of an advantage does the hybrid diesel have over the current setup?



considering that the few diesel models match up well with hybrids, I'd say pretty well.



That doesn't really answer the question...can you expand?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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