ShcShc11 0 #1 July 5, 2012 I keep hearing about how the country should be run like a business. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any companies that sell more than 80 percent of what it makes to its own workers? The U.S economy sells 80-85% percent to its own citizens. That is probably the main thing about what a country's economy is supposed to do. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #2 July 5, 2012 Well this is clearly a way that comparison fails. As for your statement about a countries economy being "supposed" to do, that is a crock. America sells 80% of its product because it is as large as it is. For Canada or Australia or Belgium to do so would require a breadth of industry so wide that all comparative advantage would have to be abandoned. We have no hope of eating all the grain we grow, but the Alberta tree-fruit yield would not be encouraging. In fact many people would starve to death as a result. Looking to manufactured goods. If eighty percent of all Blackberries had been sold in Canada and eighty percent of Canadians owned them the tariffs on iphones would have to be astronomical. The same is true for Bombardier's train and aircraft production. Air Canada flights would be priced out of reach for most Canadians using these aircraft. Canada is a trading nation. Just as Japan is and powerhouses of the past such as England and Venice were. Attempting to shut the world trading system down to 19th century (or earlier) levels is exactly what caused the crash of '29 to spiral into the decade that was the great depression. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #3 July 5, 2012 Quote of the past such as England and Venice were. England still is the only thing thats changed is what we trade, these days its financial services, stock and weapons. Although point taken, we don't really make anything anymore. GB is a importing nation in most ways.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #4 July 5, 2012 QuoteWell this is clearly a way that comparison fails. As for your statement about a countries economy being "supposed" to do, that is a crock. America sells 80% of its product because it is as large as it is. For Canada or Australia or Belgium to do so would require a breadth of industry so wide that all comparative advantage would have to be abandoned. We have no hope of eating all the grain we grow, but the Alberta tree-fruit yield would not be encouraging. In fact many people would starve to death as a result. Looking to manufactured goods. If eighty percent of all Blackberries had been sold in Canada and eighty percent of Canadians owned them the tariffs on iphones would have to be astronomical. The same is true for Bombardier's train and aircraft production. Air Canada flights would be priced out of reach for most Canadians using these aircraft. Canada is a trading nation. Just as Japan is and powerhouses of the past such as England and Venice were. Attempting to shut the world trading system down to 19th century (or earlier) levels is exactly what caused the crash of '29 to spiral into the decade that was the great depression. uhhh.. Canada sells 85% of its stuff to itself Australia is around 80-85% that too. The point i'm trying to make is: A country's economy cannot run like a business or any company. There are very few companies (if any) that sells 80-85% of its stuff to its own workers. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #5 July 5, 2012 An very narrow and irrelevant comparison." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #6 July 5, 2012 Quote I keep hearing about how the country should be run like a business. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any companies that sell more than 80 percent of what it makes to its own workers? The U.S economy sells 80-85% percent to its own citizens. That is probably the main thing about what a country's economy is supposed to do. Cheers! Shc Amway does But it's a business designed to make money off its clueless "business owners", not its sale of actual products to customers._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #7 July 5, 2012 QuoteAn very narrow and irrelevant comparison. Yes exactly! :) A country is not a business and should not be run like one. It puzzles me that people keep wanting to "slash debt" as if the country is anything like a business. No business sells 80-85% of its products to its own workers. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #8 July 5, 2012 Your point is obscure. Please compose a manifesto. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #9 July 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteAn very narrow and irrelevant comparison. Yes exactly! :) A country is not a business and should not be run like one. It puzzles me that people keep wanting to "slash debt" as if the country is anything like a business. No business sells 80-85% of its products to its own workers. Cheers! Shc No, my point is that your comparison is totally irrelvant; as in - it does not make the case either way that a country should or should not be run like a business." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #10 July 6, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I keep hearing about how the country should be run like a business. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any companies that sell more than 80 percent of what it makes to its own workers? The U.S economy sells 80-85% percent to its own citizens. That is probably the main thing about what a country's economy is supposed to do. Cheers! Shc Amway does But it's a business designed to make money off its clueless "business owners", not its sale of actual products to customers. Actually, the Amway corporation makes all of their money off of their products. People that sell Amway are independent "business owners" that are constantly suckered into buying "tools" ( motivational books, DVD's, CD's, seminars, voice-mails) from their "up-lines" people who are at the top of the pyramid. 90% of the money made by the people at the top are from the sale of "tools". Amway keeps a nice distance from this scam and is happy just selling their crap to the newbies, who are forced to buy only Amway products by their up-lines. My sister got mixed up in this 10 years ago, I went to a meeting with her and was amazed, it's a cult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #11 July 6, 2012 Sounds vaguely.... Ferengi... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #12 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote An very narrow and irrelevant comparison. Yes exactly! :) A country is not a business and should not be run like one. It puzzles me that people keep wanting to "slash debt" as if the country is anything like a business. No business sells 80-85% of its products to its own workers. Cheers! Shc No, my point is that your comparison is totally irrelvant; as in - it does not make the case either way that a country should or should not be run like a business. It does when people keep vilifying debt and they don't understand how "more debt can solve the growth problem". What happens when you go into austerity or debt cutting during a zero-bound economy? You're cutting your own people's wage and income and their ability to pay down their debt. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote An very narrow and irrelevant comparison. Yes exactly! :) A country is not a business and should not be run like one. It puzzles me that people keep wanting to "slash debt" as if the country is anything like a business. No business sells 80-85% of its products to its own workers. Cheers! Shc No, my point is that your comparison is totally irrelvant; as in - it does not make the case either way that a country should or should not be run like a business. It does when people keep vilifying debt and they don't understand how "more debt can solve the growth problem". What happens when you go into austerity or debt cutting during a zero-bound economy? You're cutting your own people's wage and income and their ability to pay down their debt. Cheers! Shc Cutting your own people's wage and income? You appear to be operating under the wildly mistaken assumption that the gov't is the sole employer.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #14 July 7, 2012 Quote uhhh.. Canada sells 85% of its stuff to itself Australia is around 80-85% that too. Cheers! Shc uhhh.. FROM the "CIA-The world Factbook" GDP (official exchange rate): $1.759 trillion (2011 est.) Exports: $450.6 billion (2011 est.) More like 74%. However when eliminate those items that are non productive the number falls considerably. Conversely a corporation only counts its marketable efforts on its balance sheets. Clean toilets and salted parking lots are not considered part of most companies' "product," but they are considered part of the country's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #15 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote An very narrow and irrelevant comparison. Yes exactly! :) A country is not a business and should not be run like one. It puzzles me that people keep wanting to "slash debt" as if the country is anything like a business. No business sells 80-85% of its products to its own workers. Cheers! Shc No, my point is that your comparison is totally irrelvant; as in - it does not make the case either way that a country should or should not be run like a business. It does when people keep vilifying debt and they don't understand how "more debt can solve the growth problem". What happens when you go into austerity or debt cutting during a zero-bound economy? You're cutting your own people's wage and income and their ability to pay down their debt. Cheers! Shc Cutting your own people's wage and income? You appear to be operating under the wildly mistaken assumption that the gov't is the sole employer. haha always love your replies. Like I said, what happens in a zero-bound economy where the PRIVATE SECTOR is busy paying off its debt? what is a zero-bound economy? its an economy that LACKS DEMAND. If its lacks demand, then the private doesn't have any reason to invest more. In fact, they`re not even using their full capacity now. Hence tax cuts, appropriate for the stagflation economy of the 1980s is not appropriate for 1930s Great Depression and the 2008 Depression. And if the private sector is unable to bring DEMAND upwards (because they are busy paying off their debt), then guess who is left to do that job? its a terrible tragedy unfortunately. All of this was preventable by what we learned from the 1930s and 1990s Japanese experience. But nope, debt is evil they say!... And America lags. while Europe is catastrophically on the brink with their austerity obsessions. ... its tragic to see both Obama (especially 2010) and Romney denounce "debt" in the name of politics. And what did Romney's economic advisor Gregory Mankiw suggested in March 2009 when NASDAQ was at a low point? Boost demand through spending, but you won't hear any of the candidates say that on the media any time soon. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #16 July 7, 2012 True. That was the reality in the eighties and ninties. But since I haven't looked deeply into them recently, I didn't know if that was still their sucker model. I was playing it safe. They're still sketchy though. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #17 July 7, 2012 QuoteQuote uhhh.. Canada sells 85% of its stuff to itself Australia is around 80-85% that too. Cheers! Shc uhhh.. FROM the "CIA-The world Factbook" GDP (official exchange rate): $1.759 trillion (2011 est.) Exports: $450.6 billion (2011 est.) More like 74%. However when eliminate those items that are non productive the number falls considerably. Conversely a corporation only counts its marketable efforts on its balance sheets. Clean toilets and salted parking lots are not considered part of most companies' "product," but they are considered part of the country's. 1) The 80% estimate is from the official CBO estimates and re-used by other newspapers including the NYT and WSJ 2) "Conversely a corporation only counts its marketable efforts on its balance sheets. Clean toilets and salted parking lots are not considered part of most companies' "product," but they are considered part of the country's" Ok and? The official numbers aren't derived solely on tangible products from the B/S. Assets are not the only thing counted and in fact, what would be more relevant would be the I/S (Income Statement). A PPE (let's say building) bought 50 years ago will still show in the B/S but be completely irrelevant to our statistics. I/S will show your clean toilets in the form of labour expense. Your contention of "the number would fall considerably" based on stats of the B/S seems to put you in lala fantasy/crazy land lol. Oh and btw, if it helps the search, try to find companies that sells 30% of its products to its own workers. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 July 7, 2012 QuoteAnd if the private sector is unable to bring DEMAND upwards (because they are busy paying off their debt), then guess who is left to do that job? And just what debt is the private sector so busy paying off, pray tell? Specific examples, please. Quoteits a terrible tragedy unfortunately. All of this was preventable by what we learned from the 1930s and 1990s Japanese experience. But nope, debt is evil they say!... And America lags. And again you incorrectly equate gov't debt with private enterprise. Try again - preferably with a *coherent* argument.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #19 July 8, 2012 Quote Quote And if the private sector is unable to bring DEMAND upwards (because they are busy paying off their debt), then guess who is left to do that job? And just what debt is the private sector so busy paying off, pray tell? Specific examples, please. Quote its a terrible tragedy unfortunately. All of this was preventable by what we learned from the 1930s and 1990s Japanese experience. But nope, debt is evil they say!... And America lags. And again you incorrectly equate gov't debt with private enterprise. Try again - preferably with a *coherent* argument. LOL. I always love your short replies Mike. Quote And just what debt is the private sector so busy paying off, pray tell? Specific examples, please. hmm. I don`t know, maybe just maybe the debt caused by the BIG HOUSING BUBBLE/BANK CRISIS in 2008???? http://cdn.debtdeflation.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/010212_2140_TheDebtwatc1.png google map, takes 2 seconds. What do you think is happening at the end of the red line? The Private Sector accumulated too much debt in 2000-2008 and has no choice but to pay it off. In other words, they must DELEVERAGE. In other words, not much DEMAND is coming from the Private Sector. In other words, the private sector won't INVEST (in new PPE, labour, etc...) In other words, we are repeating our 1930s history lessons . Much cheers and hugs! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
