kelpdiver 2 #101 June 28, 2012 Quote>And having it tied up in the med-drug complex is different, how? From a money perspective not much. Personally I prefer wasting it on saving people's lives rather than killing them, but that's just me. We benefited in many ways from our military spending (I'll include NASA in this as it was Cold War driven). A lot of technology was developed, and (ignoring morality concerns) a lot of weapons were sold to other nations. The question really is what has better total payoff and many (including my hippie leaning parents) argue that the multipliers are much better for non military spending. But when I look at the pharma industry in particular, I see them spending a lot of efforts on answers to questions no one is asking - Phen Phen anyone? Drugs for shyness and distracted kids? Contrast that to HIV oriented protease inhibitors - if that spending lead to cures for diabetes or cancers or even obesity, that would be a boon for the country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #102 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote my brand new teeth were about 15k EUR. My share? 400 EUR. All for a brilliant smile so someone other than you had to pay 14,600 EUR for your teeth - and that's a point of pride? Would it have been different if you had to go door to door with a soldier and forcibly take contributions from your neighbors for this? Dear, you did not/do not understand our social HC system: Since first Dollar I earned, I paid a certain percentage from my income for HC. Every month. And now, as I need wonderful new brilliant bright white teeth: HC pays (excl. a small amount, which is my share). So what you're saying is that you paid considerably more than 400E for those new teeth. How much is that "certain percentage?" Most importantly, does that certain percentage from all income earners cover the outgoing costs? And are there any concerns on timely access? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #103 June 28, 2012 QuoteYou've summed up the Democratic Party very briefly and accurately. The goal is laudable; the execution deplorable. The health care law is a poorly crafted, complicated piece of legislation that, at the very least, needs some refinement. This happened because the Democrats argued amongst themselves for a year, then allowed any legislator to put whatever he wanted in the bill in order to get enough votes to pass it. My favorite example was the absolutely unrelated and ridiculous 1099 reporting requirement that was part of the health care law and has already been removed. Now the challenge is to pay for health care for all with something that the President doesn't want to call a tax and the Supreme Court doesn't want to call a mandate. Here's an article that summarizes most of the provisions http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/News/20125972.htm Including some that don't seem to have a lot to do with health care: Change to cellulosic biofuel producer credit (Sec. 40): Excludes from the definition of cellulosic biofuel any fuels that (1) are more than 4% (determined by weight) water and sediment in any combination or (2) have an ash content of more than 1% (determined by weight) (so-called black liquor). (Effective 2010.) Expanded 1099 reporting: This change was repealed by the Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011, P.L. 112-9. What a shame, it sounds like a good opportunity lost.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #104 June 28, 2012 Same - SameLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #105 June 28, 2012 Quote>Quotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical >system can't support 40 million new patients. "Our experience also demonstrates that getting every citizen insured doesn’t have to break the bank. First, we establish incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance. Using tax penalties, as we did . .. encourages ‘free riders’ to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others. This doesn’t cost the government a single dollar." If they can't afford groceries, housing and now health insurance, how is imposing an IRS penalty going to make their lives better? We have been lied to by this administration. Come November BHO is out. ETA: If this is such a good idea, likes make the homeless buy houses.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #106 June 28, 2012 >If they can't afford groceries, housing and now health insurance, how is imposing an >IRS penalty going to make their lives better? That was a quote from Mitt Romney. >We have been lied to by this administration. Come November BHO is out. Looks like you've been lied to by someone alright . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #107 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Sorry, but today's SCOTUS ruling dealt that one a death blow. ACA is Constitutional. As a TAX and not a commerce clause mandate...and the states can't be penalized for ignoring it. What is the mechanism for collecting the fine? It sounded like it was collected via federal taxes. If so, the state isn't the one liable for paying, it's the individual.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #108 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Sorry, but today's SCOTUS ruling dealt that one a death blow. ACA is Constitutional. As a TAX and not a commerce clause mandate...and the states can't be penalized for ignoring it. What is the mechanism for collecting the fine? It sounded like it was collected via federal taxes. If so, the state isn't the one liable for paying, it's the individual. Tax penalty is on individuals... states can't be penalized for not enacting O-care, as originally stated in the law.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #109 June 29, 2012 QuoteSo they are chipping away at the 10th. Interesting approach to rolling out socialism IMO. Since when has the 10th meant much anyway? Name a SCOTUS ruling based on the 10th.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #110 June 29, 2012 Geez, and just look at all the Americans that prefer to get their healthcare needs taken care of in Germany/ Austria, or a Carribean country. Or all the foreigners from Saudia Arabia, Russia, etc. They prefer Western Europe over the US. And certainly not for lack of money! Dimwit, you ever travelled to another country? You have a passport? Have you ever lived in another culture other than your incestuous neighborhood? Quote... Geez... just look at Canadian and British citizens who come here all the time for our great doctors and hospitals... all the time !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #111 June 29, 2012 Quote Geez, and just look at all the Americans that prefer to get their healthcare needs taken care of in Germany/ Austria, or a Carribean country. what, all 3 of them? Can't imagine many reasons to fly to Germany... Quote Or all the foreigners from Saudia Arabia, Russia, etc. They prefer Western Europe over the US. And certainly not for lack of money! and can't imagine why a Russian would fly 8x further for the same procedure without need. For the Saudi's it's 3x. So far you seem to be pulling facts out of thin air. Quote Dimwit, you ever travelled to another country? You have a passport? Have you ever lived in another culture other than your incestuous neighborhood? Did you ever look at a map? Seems odd to hear a German complain about America being incestuous and having a mono culture. You have Germans, and (former) East Germans. We got Germans here. We got Jews here. Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Ruskies, Irish, Italians, Africans of all origins, and on and on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #112 June 29, 2012 >what, all 3 of them? Can't imagine many reasons to fly to Germany... A fair number of bigway jumpers go to Sweden for shoulder surgery. There are some very good doctors over there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #113 June 29, 2012 Quote .... Can't imagine many reasons to fly to Germany... .... Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Germany and then, ask your fellow country men dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #114 June 29, 2012 My Mom went to the Mayo clinic for some proceedures about 15-20 years ago. You wouldn't believe the number of Saudis there. There were multiple private jumbo jets at the airport, and many burka'ed ladies walking around town. The Saudis certainly do come to the US for healthcare (or at least they used to). - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #115 June 29, 2012 QuoteMy Mom went to the Mayo clinic for some proceedures about 15-20 years ago. You wouldn't believe the number of Saudis there. There were multiple private jumbo jets at the airport, and many burka'ed ladies walking around town. The Saudis certainly do come to the US for healthcare (or at least they used to). There is nothing 2nd rate about the quality of American health care if money isn't a concern. It just costs 2x what it does in Europe for essentially identical care. Americans do travel abroad for procedures not yet done in the U.S., and people travel to the U.S. (or within the U.S.) to access someone with a lot of experience in a specific procedure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gregpso 1 #116 June 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHonestly, whats the problem with a nation taking care of its own people instead of leaving them to the mercy of corporations? I don't get it. Loss of individual freedoms due to increased gov intervention in my life But..but...your insurance comopany already intervenes in your life! So...how is the government any worse? No, I pay for a service. At times we may disagree what I am paying for And, I can drop an insurance company if I don't like the service I would be stuck with Obamacare Add to this, government intervention in what insurance policies have to cover complicates the problem even more In the end, the difference tween you and me? I don't see insurance companies or corps as evil (IE, I am not jealous of them) I see them as a necessary service. These are companies that employ Doctors to deny medical treatment to folk.I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #117 June 30, 2012 QuoteWhats so wrong with Obama care? What a funny question...it just goes to show how ignorantly depraved the rest of the world has become with regard to freedom...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #118 June 30, 2012 QuoteI would be stuck with Obamacare Where in "Obamacare" do you loose the right to the same insurance plan you have now? Where do you loose the right to purchase any insurance plan you like? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #119 June 30, 2012 QuoteWhere in "Obamacare" do you loose the right to the same insurance plan you have now? I loose my right to the insurance plan that I don't have right now....what's so hard to understand?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
av8rdav 2 #120 June 30, 2012 The reason we pay twice what other countries pay is lawyers, lawsuits, threats of lawsuits, and the courts. Think about it. There are more students in law school right now in the USA than there are lawyers.Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #121 June 30, 2012 Quote There are more students in law school right now in the USA than there are lawyers. Devils advocate fan, eh? Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #122 June 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhere in "Obamacare" do you loose the right to the same insurance plan you have now? I loose my right to the insurance plan that I don't have right now....what's so hard to understand? No, you still can go uninsured and freeload when you get sick. You just pay a small tax penalty for doing so. Rather like I pay a tax penalty for not buying a mortgage.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #123 June 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteI would be stuck with Obamacare Where in "Obamacare" do you loose the right to the same insurance plan you have now? Where do you loose the right to purchase any insurance plan you like? With the mandated coverages, you can't get a 'major medical' policy.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #124 June 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI would be stuck with Obamacare Where in "Obamacare" do you loose the right to the same insurance plan you have now? Where do you loose the right to purchase any insurance plan you like? With the mandated coverages, you can't get a 'major medical' policy. You can get ANYTHING YOU LIKE if you are willing to accept the tax consequence. Just like I accepted the tax consequence of not buying an energy efficient furnace last year. However, I didn't go around whining that the govt. is making me buy a furnace I don't want.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #125 June 30, 2012 (Just a reminder for the easily bamboozled)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
