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Skyrad

Should UAVs be used to kill Mexican Narco Terrorists?

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Like you bringing common hemp into a discussion regarding marijuana, you mean?



Why not, they're the same thing.



From wiki:
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Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa var. sativa is the variety grown for industrial use, while C. sativa subsp. indica generally has poor fiber quality and is primarily used for recreational and medicinal purposes. The major difference between the two types of plants is the appearance and the amount of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) secreted in a resinous mixture by epidermal hairs called glandular trichomes, although they can also be distinguished genetically.



So, nope...not the same thing. But feel free to try and get stoned off of industrial hemp if you like.

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And *still* has nothing to do with the subject under discussion.



the subject that was meant to be under discussion is US foreign politics. The discussion derailed a long time ago into a discussion about legalizing weed.



Which isn't the industrial hemp that you're trying to describe it as, although I'll admit the US is as stupid in not allowing the industrial hemp to be used as they are in not legalizing weed.



Like you said yourself, and like wiki says:

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United States Government does not consistently distinguish between marijuana and the non-psychoactive Cannabis used for industrial and commercial purposes.



so hemp in this discussion is relevant, since due to demonizing hemp because of weed, growing hemp for industrial purposes is unnecessarily hard.

Besides the distinction between sativa and indica isn't as clear-cut as sativa = good, indica = bad. It completely depends on the strain of cannabis and what it is cultivated for. Here is strain that is 75% sativa and is cultivated mainly for recreational use.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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How about this... The government issues 'Personal Grow Permits'. One simply pays a set fee and re-news the permit annually for a fee. Like a hunting license. The weed grown by the permit holder can only be what they can use personally. No sales to anyone. This would be for personal use on the grower's property only. This would cut-out the middle-man and drastically reduce prices. Also, the laws would apply for driving under the influence and so-on. I understand that people want their 'cheap' vices and the government gets their share. Everyone is happy!


Chuck



If that would be done it would be a massive improvement to the current situation. This alone would very likely drastically cut into the mexican cartels profits and reduce their power.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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In a related news Uruguay plan to let gov't sell marijuana.

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MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's national government said Wednesday it hopes to fight a growing crime problem by selling marijuana to citizens registered to buy it, and will send a bill to Congress that would make it the first country in the world to do so.

Under the plan, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.

Minister of Defense Eleuterio Fernandez Huidobro told reporters in Montevideo that the measure aims to weaken crime in the country by removing profits from drug dealers and diverting users from harder drugs.

...

Overburdened by clogged prisons, some Latin American countries have relaxed penalties for drug possession and personal use and distanced themselves from the tough stance pushed by the United States four decades ago when the Richard Nixon administration declared the war on drugs.



Interestingly majority of the comments seem to support legalization of pot in US even though politicians don't seem to do so.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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How about this... The government issues 'Personal Grow Permits'. One simply pays a set fee and re-news the permit annually for a fee. Like a hunting license. The weed grown by the permit holder can only be what they can use personally. No sales to anyone. This would be for personal use on the grower's property only. This would cut-out the middle-man and drastically reduce prices. Also, the laws would apply for driving under the influence and so-on. I understand that people want their 'cheap' vices and the government gets their share. Everyone is happy!


Chuck



If that would be done it would be a massive improvement to the current situation. This alone would very likely drastically cut into the mexican cartels profits and reduce their power.


When you pay the permit fee, you would recieve a seed packet and a pamphlet with growing tips and a mail-in card for a subscription to 'High Times' magazine! :)

Chuck

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In a related news Uruguay plan to let gov't sell marijuana.

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MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's national government said Wednesday it hopes to fight a growing crime problem by selling marijuana to citizens registered to buy it, and will send a bill to Congress that would make it the first country in the world to do so.

Under the plan, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.

Minister of Defense Eleuterio Fernandez Huidobro told reporters in Montevideo that the measure aims to weaken crime in the country by removing profits from drug dealers and diverting users from harder drugs.

...

Overburdened by clogged prisons, some Latin American countries have relaxed penalties for drug possession and personal use and distanced themselves from the tough stance pushed by the United States four decades ago when the Richard Nixon administration declared the war on drugs.



Interestingly majority of the comments seem to support legalization of pot in US even though politicians don't seem to do so.



Mybe, the politicians are getting kick-backs from the cartels?


Chuck

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How about this... The government issues 'Personal Grow Permits'. One simply pays a set fee and re-news the permit annually for a fee. Like a hunting license. The weed grown by the permit holder can only be what they can use personally. No sales to anyone. This would be for personal use on the grower's property only. This would cut-out the middle-man and drastically reduce prices. Also, the laws would apply for driving under the influence and so-on. I understand that people want their 'cheap' vices and the government gets their share. Everyone is happy!


Chuck



If that would be done it would be a massive improvement to the current situation. This alone would very likely drastically cut into the mexican cartels profits and reduce their power.


When you pay the permit fee, you would recieve a seed packet and a pamphlet with growing tips and a mail-in card for a subscription to 'High Times' magazine! :)


how dare they make you pay for a permit - that's racism

the gov should grow it, box and give it for free

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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How about this... The government issues 'Personal Grow Permits'. One simply pays a set fee and re-news the permit annually for a fee. Like a hunting license. The weed grown by the permit holder can only be what they can use personally. No sales to anyone. This would be for personal use on the grower's property only. This would cut-out the middle-man and drastically reduce prices. Also, the laws would apply for driving under the influence and so-on. I understand that people want their 'cheap' vices and the government gets their share. Everyone is happy!


Chuck



If that would be done it would be a massive improvement to the current situation. This alone would very likely drastically cut into the mexican cartels profits and reduce their power.


When you pay the permit fee, you would recieve a seed packet and a pamphlet with growing tips and a mail-in card for a subscription to 'High Times' magazine! :)


how dare they make you pay for a permit - that's racism

the gov should grow it, box and give it for free


Yeah!! They'd only spend the permit money on Brazilian hookers, anyhow! >:(


Chuck

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In a related news Uruguay plan to let gov't sell marijuana.

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MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's national government said Wednesday it hopes to fight a growing crime problem by selling marijuana to citizens registered to buy it, and will send a bill to Congress that would make it the first country in the world to do so.

Under the plan, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.

Minister of Defense Eleuterio Fernandez Huidobro told reporters in Montevideo that the measure aims to weaken crime in the country by removing profits from drug dealers and diverting users from harder drugs.

...

Overburdened by clogged prisons, some Latin American countries have relaxed penalties for drug possession and personal use and distanced themselves from the tough stance pushed by the United States four decades ago when the Richard Nixon administration declared the war on drugs.



Interestingly majority of the comments seem to support legalization of pot in US even though politicians don't seem to do so.



Mybe, the politicians are getting kick-backs from the cartels?


Chuck



Nah I think its because majority of politicians are old and were brought up with the reefer madness propaganda and they're stuck in that mindset. When that generation dies off then I believe pot will be legalized pretty naturally. I have a gut feeling that in roughly the next 15-20 years most western countries will legalize pot as the crumpy old people go extinct.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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In a related news Uruguay plan to let gov't sell marijuana.

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MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's national government said Wednesday it hopes to fight a growing crime problem by selling marijuana to citizens registered to buy it, and will send a bill to Congress that would make it the first country in the world to do so.

Under the plan, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.

Minister of Defense Eleuterio Fernandez Huidobro told reporters in Montevideo that the measure aims to weaken crime in the country by removing profits from drug dealers and diverting users from harder drugs.

...

Overburdened by clogged prisons, some Latin American countries have relaxed penalties for drug possession and personal use and distanced themselves from the tough stance pushed by the United States four decades ago when the Richard Nixon administration declared the war on drugs.



Interestingly majority of the comments seem to support legalization of pot in US even though politicians don't seem to do so.



Mybe, the politicians are getting kick-backs from the cartels?


Chuck



Nah I think its because majority of politicians are old and were brought up with the reefer madness propaganda and they're stuck in that mindset. When that generation dies off then I believe pot will be legalized pretty naturally. I have a gut feeling that in roughly the next 15-20 years most western countries will legalize pot as the crumpy old people go extinct.



Shit! Most of those 'grumpy old people' you refer to lived through the sixties! Maybe, they learned something from it.


Chuck

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Nah I think its because majority of politicians are old and were brought up with the reefer madness propaganda and they're stuck in that mindset. When that generation dies off then I believe pot will be legalized pretty naturally. I have a gut feeling that in roughly the next 15-20 years most western countries will legalize pot as the crumpy old people go extinct.



How does the saying go? If you're not liberal when you're 20 then you have no heart and if you're not conservative when you're 50 then you have no brain.

I think the handful of people in the thread still arguing against legalization are having a hard time distinguishing behaviors attributable to using the drug and behaviors attributable to obtaining anything illegal on a regular basis. It wouldn't surprise me if the only thing that contributed to a "gateway drug" effect was that obtaining pot and other drugs has all been made to happen through the same avenues. No one worries about beer leading to pot but then both aren't for sale in the same supermarket.

Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.

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Nah I think its because majority of politicians are old and were brought up with the reefer madness propaganda and they're stuck in that mindset. When that generation dies off then I believe pot will be legalized pretty naturally. I have a gut feeling that in roughly the next 15-20 years most western countries will legalize pot as the crumpy old people go extinct.



How does the saying go? If you're not liberal when you're 20 then you have no heart and if you're not conservative when you're 50 then you have no brain.

I think the handful of people in the thread still arguing against legalization are having a hard time distinguishing behaviors attributable to using the drug and behaviors attributable to obtaining anything illegal on a regular basis. It wouldn't surprise me if the only thing that contributed to a "gateway drug" effect was that obtaining pot and other drugs has all been made to happen through the same avenues. No one worries about beer leading to pot but then both aren't for sale in the same supermarket.

Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.


Why, would cities be a problem? No back yard? The permit would be for personal use. Get a large planter pot, put some dirt in the pot, plant the seeds in the dirt and water as necessary. Maybe a little Miracle Gro to speed-up the process. So, what's the problem. Unless, your consumption is greater than a couple plants. :D


Chuck

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Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.



Why, would cities be a problem? No back yard? The permit would be for personal use. Get a large planter pot, put some dirt in the pot, plant the seeds in the dirt and water as necessary. Maybe a little Miracle Gro to speed-up the process. So, what's the problem. Unless, your consumption is greater than a couple plants. :D

Chuck


It'd be awfully hard to grow "on your own property" if you don't own property.

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Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.



Why, would cities be a problem? No back yard? The permit would be for personal use. Get a large planter pot, put some dirt in the pot, plant the seeds in the dirt and water as necessary. Maybe a little Miracle Gro to speed-up the process. So, what's the problem. Unless, your consumption is greater than a couple plants. :D

Chuck


It'd be awfully hard to grow "on your own property" if you don't own property.


Shoot, people have roof-top gardens in the big cities. Planter boxes with flowers, potted plants and so-on. All it takes is a little imagination. I knew a guy who raised pot in his house till the beetles got to it and ate all his plants! :D:D


Chuck

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Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.



Why, would cities be a problem? No back yard? The permit would be for personal use. Get a large planter pot, put some dirt in the pot, plant the seeds in the dirt and water as necessary. Maybe a little Miracle Gro to speed-up the process. So, what's the problem. Unless, your consumption is greater than a couple plants. :D

Chuck


It'd be awfully hard to grow "on your own property" if you don't own property.


Shoot, people have roof-top gardens in the big cities. Planter boxes with flowers, potted plants and so-on. All it takes is a little imagination. I knew a guy who raised pot in his house till the beetles got to it and ate all his plants! :D:D


Chuck


Oh I've grown tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, herbs, etc. in potted plants on my patio back when I rented apartments, that wasn't my point. My point is I was renting the apartments.

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How does the saying go? If you're not liberal when you're 20 then you have no heart and if you're not conservative when you're 50 then you have no brain.



I was more conservative at 20 and slowly becoming liberal as I age into my forties. Crap, I'm going to be a heartless idiot.:|:D

And I though the whole "gateway drug" concept has long been known as disproven and not even considered as an argument. But I rarely read other anti-legalization pieces. A lot of them disappoint me.
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How does the saying go? If you're not liberal when you're 20 then you have no heart and if you're not conservative when you're 50 then you have no brain.



I was more conservative at 20 and slowly becoming liberal as I age into my forties. Crap, I'm going to be a heartless idiot.:|:D

And I though the whole "gateway drug" concept has long been known as disproven and not even considered as an argument. But I rarely read other anti-legalization pieces. A lot of them disappoint me.


Maybe you were wise beyond your years and you've just grown into it. ;) My point was simply that "crumpy old people" never go extinct.

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Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.



Why, would cities be a problem? No back yard? The permit would be for personal use. Get a large planter pot, put some dirt in the pot, plant the seeds in the dirt and water as necessary. Maybe a little Miracle Gro to speed-up the process. So, what's the problem. Unless, your consumption is greater than a couple plants. :D

Chuck


It'd be awfully hard to grow "on your own property" if you don't own property.


Shoot, people have roof-top gardens in the big cities. Planter boxes with flowers, potted plants and so-on. All it takes is a little imagination. I knew a guy who raised pot in his house till the beetles got to it and ate all his plants! :D:D


Chuck


Oh I've grown tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, herbs, etc. in potted plants on my patio back when I rented apartments, that wasn't my point. My point is I was renting the apartments.


The issue may come with landlords trying to put restrictions on renters. As a landlord, I can say that if it was legal to grow your own pot, the laws will protect the renter from landlords restriction. But the landlord can prevent smoking on the premise as we can do that right now with cigarettes.
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How does the saying go? If you're not liberal when you're 20 then you have no heart and if you're not conservative when you're 50 then you have no brain.



I was more conservative at 20 and slowly becoming liberal as I age into my forties. Crap, I'm going to be a heartless idiot.:|:D

And I though the whole "gateway drug" concept has long been known as disproven and not even considered as an argument. But I rarely read other anti-legalization pieces. A lot of them disappoint me.


Maybe you were wise beyond your years and you've just grown into it. ;) My point was simply that "crumpy old people" never go extinct.


Flattery will get you everywhere.:P
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I think the handful of people in the thread still arguing against legalization are having a hard time distinguishing behaviors attributable to using the drug and behaviors attributable to obtaining anything illegal on a regular basis.



It's so hard arguing for/against legalization with the considerable amount of facets involved with drugs. I'm forced to broad-stroke just to keep a conversation going. Truth is Arvoitus isn't all wrong in his assertions and in some aspect, he is right. I believe, with many I disagree with here, that we are shooting off with different facets of the issues. For example: I kind of agree morally with his thought on actual usage being in itself, a victimless crime that maybe shouldn't be persued with such heavy-handedness. But I argue with the thought that users, whether addicts or recreational, are enablers as they provide the demand that fuels the bad guys' profits. Two different view points which in themselves would cause disagreement regardless if there's some aspect of agreeness.
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The only way I see to stop the cycle is to Legalize, Control, and Tax ALL drugs, in the same manner we do with alcohol nicotine and prescription drugs.

Most importantly the Taxes will pay for EDUCATION and Rehabilitation. Most drug addicts would LOVE a way out of there destructive cycles(to themselves and others) they are in, but are not educated enough to do so.

As it stands we spend money incarcerating people for drug crimes of various natures. If we stop spending that money we will have VAST sums available for education. If we then tax all current drug sales we will then have VASTLY LARGER sums of money to then educate our citizens about the perils of irresponsible drug use.

Not only will we have more mo ney for education but we will have freed up untold amounts of Law Enforcement resources to deal with other more heinous crimes than smoking marijuana.

I'm glad you were smart enough to overcome your addiction Chuck, many others are not.
I fly and stuff, its fun!

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The way I see to stop the cycle is decrease demand. America has a huge appetite for drugs. I would gladly pay more taxes it it would go to more training and rehab. Start with decriminalizing it, then work on the education. Don't legalize drugs for purposes of taxing it for revenue, tax alcohol and tobacco further. The way we fight the "war" is mostly Supply sided attacks. It only drives up prices and changes behaviors related to importing. It has to be a Demand side attack. Keep the Supply war up to keep the choke points and access in place, but increase Demand side education and therapy.
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Nah I think its because majority of politicians are old and were brought up with the reefer madness propaganda and they're stuck in that mindset. When that generation dies off then I believe pot will be legalized pretty naturally. I have a gut feeling that in roughly the next 15-20 years most western countries will legalize pot as the crumpy old people go extinct.



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Shit! Most of those 'grumpy old people' you refer to lived through the sixties! Maybe, they learned something from it.


Chuck



:D:D:D
Grumpy Old People - 1
Youngsters - 0

Live long enough and you actually DO learn something, eh?
:D:D;)
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Also, the idea to allow personal-consumption growing licenses has a small problem, namely, cities.



Why, would cities be a problem? No back yard? The permit would be for personal use. Get a large planter pot, put some dirt in the pot, plant the seeds in the dirt and water as necessary. Maybe a little Miracle Gro to speed-up the process. So, what's the problem. Unless, your consumption is greater than a couple plants. :D

Chuck


It'd be awfully hard to grow "on your own property" if you don't own property.


Shoot, people have roof-top gardens in the big cities. Planter boxes with flowers, potted plants and so-on. All it takes is a little imagination. I knew a guy who raised pot in his house till the beetles got to it and ate all his plants! :D:D


Chuck


Oh I've grown tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, herbs, etc. in potted plants on my patio back when I rented apartments, that wasn't my point. My point is I was renting the apartments.


That apartment is your 'home'. You have, if I'm not mistaken, entitled to the same rights as a home owner. Seems to me, if you have a grow permit, there's nothing the landlord can do.


Chuck

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Nah I think its because majority of politicians are old and were brought up with the reefer madness propaganda and they're stuck in that mindset. When that generation dies off then I believe pot will be legalized pretty naturally. I have a gut feeling that in roughly the next 15-20 years most western countries will legalize pot as the crumpy old people go extinct.



Quote

Shit! Most of those 'grumpy old people' you refer to lived through the sixties! Maybe, they learned something from it.


Chuck



:D:D:D
Grumpy Old People - 1
Youngsters - 0

Live long enough and you actually DO learn something, eh?
:D:D;)


I'll take age and wisdom over youth and skill, any day! :D


Chuck

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