shah269 0 #1 June 14, 2012 http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/14/opinion/carville-middle-class/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 QuoteTo put it bluntly, the middle class in this country has been screwed, blued and tattooed. Amen brother!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 June 14, 2012 Carville is a very good speaker and writer, but let's not forget where he's coming from. and he missed the boat- the 1% did lose 40% of their wealth in 2008-2009. You can see it with Buffet or Gates's fortune. The market plummeted and so did much of their wealth. But because they didn't stupidly sell off at a loss (like more than a few people here), it rebounded in the last couple years. Dreamdancer liked to post misleading articles about how great the rich did in 2010 and 2011 when they recovered from the massive loss they took in the prior years. Too many in the middle class have too much of their net wealth coming from their home. This drop shows it well. Even ignoring the way many used the home as an ATM, they shouldn't be putting every last dollar into the home. It should be part of a more balanced 3 tier wealth - 1) home equity + roth 2) 401k/IRA 3) cash and taxable brokerage accounts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 June 14, 2012 See the previously existing thread for all the standard and predictable political responses to this news item. No need to repeat them all again here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #4 June 14, 2012 QuoteToo many in the middle class have too much of their net wealth coming from their home Yeah! We suck! How dare we own homes!? We should just rent property from the top 1% like they do in the UK! RIGHT!?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteToo many in the middle class have too much of their net wealth coming from their home Yeah! We suck! How dare we own homes!? We should just rent property from the top 1% like they do in the UK! RIGHT!? you should stop overpaying, and then whining like a fat bitch when the values drop and your bank doesn't want to refinance your underwater loan. You collectively created the bubble, thanks to greed, stupidity, low interest rates, and the belief that the next guy will pay you 30% more in 3 years. It's as retarded as putting your entire 401k portfolio in Enron or Apple stock. Again, this is why the rich recovered from 2008 and you didn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #6 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteToo many in the middle class have too much of their net wealth coming from their home Yeah! We suck! How dare we own homes!? That's not the problem. The issues are that the middle class's homes represent a disproportionate fraction of their assets because they don't save enough and spend too much on housing. I define "enough" long term savings as what it will take to maintain the same standard of living in retirement even if the government decides to means-test Social Security. As a rule of thumb you need 25X your final salary to get there. With the median household earning $51,914 in 2010 the average family needs about $1.3 million by retirement age. Nationwide median home price was $166,100 in May of 2010 suggesting that the median family's house should be about 13% of their assets by the time they reach their 60s. Enough cash is 6-12 months of take home pay. The median new house built in 2010 had grown 40% from 1525 square feet in 1973 to 2,169 square feet. 1500 square feet is plenty; and with only 1200 square feet my wife and I talk about sending our house guests to the north wing where they have their own bathroom and aren't underfoot. Quote We should just rent property from the top 1% like they do in the UK! RIGHT!? When the price to rent ratio suggests that. I became a renter for four years to wait out the bubble's inevitable collapse. Otherwise we should buy smaller homes so we can save + invest more in a diverse portfolio (no more than 5% of your wealth in a single asset is one rule of thumb). We should also accumulate less depreciating and disposable crap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #7 June 14, 2012 QuoteYou collectively created the bubble, thanks to greed, stupidity, low interest rates what do you mean YOU people! Wasn't it the bankers who set up all these lovely devices to allow those with out jobs to buy homes in the first place? Say it with me...WaMu and credit default swaps. These guys made a killing. And now we are getting killed. They got to keep their money...smart? I think?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #8 June 14, 2012 QuoteThese guys made a killing. Speaking of which, I think it's time to bring the guillotine back to the Bastille. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #9 June 14, 2012 >Wasn't it the bankers who set up all these lovely devices to allow those with out jobs to >buy homes in the first place? Yep. And if they hadn't, you'd be posting "wasn't it the bankers who wanted to just sit on their piles of cash instead of letting poor deserving American families buy the homes they desperately needed?" >These guys made a killing. Some did. Some got killed. Ask any (former) Lehman Brothers employee. >And now we are getting killed. I did great. Bought a house at a low interest rate. And a banker enabled me to do that, for which I am thankful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #10 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou collectively created the bubble, thanks to greed, stupidity, low interest rates what do you mean YOU people! Wasn't it the bankers who set up all these lovely devices to allow those with out jobs to buy homes in the first place? Say it with me...WaMu and credit default swaps. These guys made a killing. And now we are getting killed. They got to keep their money...smart? I think? nope, they were just part of the same collective people that you were when you paid 300k for your condo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 June 15, 2012 QuoteQuoteToo many in the middle class have too much of their net wealth coming from their home Yeah! We suck! How dare we own homes!? We should just rent property from the top 1% like they do in the UK! RIGHT!? Miss the fucking point much? Stop buying homes outside your means......---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #12 June 16, 2012 Quote Miss the fucking point much? Stop buying homes outside your means...... STOP FUCKING SELLING OFF MY FUCKING MORTGAGE WITH MY FUCKING 900 CREDIT SCORE JUST SO YOU CAN FUCKING BUNDLE ME WITH THAT FUCKING MEXICAN WHO DOESN'T HAVE A JOB AND WHO BOUGHT THE $500K HOME AND DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! Yeah well...hate to say it...but given the choice of hating me the guy who bought the place and can afford it...and i can afford it or hating the DUMB FUCKS who keep selling my not and matching it up with some SOB who can't afford a home just to make the credit default swap seem less risky.... well let's just say....i'm not the one making a killing. Though all those who are not party of this very lovely system will be dead. Expected recovery time for the mess these brilliant men put us in at best? 2020. Shame the top 1% didn't loose 40% of their total net worth. I think it would be fun to watch. Don't you?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 June 16, 2012 QuoteQuote Miss the fucking point much? Stop buying homes outside your means...... STOP FUCKING SELLING OFF MY FUCKING MORTGAGE WITH MY FUCKING 900 CREDIT SCORE JUST SO YOU CAN FUCKING BUNDLE ME WITH THAT FUCKING MEXICAN WHO DOESN'T HAVE A JOB AND WHO BOUGHT THE $500K HOME AND DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! Buy like someone with a "900 credit score" and put more than 20% down and you won't get lumped in with the rest of the people that only put 20% down.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #14 June 17, 2012 QuoteExpected recovery time for the mess these brilliant men put us in at best? 2020. Well, prices of homes are now at 2002 prices; the last year before demand inflated the prices of homes. So, price wise, housing has recovered. Now if you want to wait till the 2007-08 prices when they were at their peak, you are just going to have to wait till "normal" housing value increases to happen. Like say, 20 to 30 years._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #15 June 17, 2012 Yup yup! 20-30 years at best! See here is how it works, let's look at banking like we look at tobacco shall we. They don't put the cancer stick in your mouth do they? Nope but sure as she they will do just about everything to ensure that you think it's a good idea and take your money till you die a slow death. So we have these adds on TV warning us about these things. Now could you imagine if they ran the same add about how the top 1% utilized some of the very same methods to take money and livelihood from the middle class? What's the difference? You create an addict and steal from them one puff at a time or develop wonderful little tools to take money from the middle class? I'm sorry...i've lived in many countries and do you know what they love most about our country? Our middle class. And sadly it's under attack. Thus you have two choices? 1) get the hell out! or 2) be a patriot and tell the top 1% to go fuck themselves and bank with your local credit union.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #16 June 17, 2012 QuoteShame the top 1% didn't loose 40% of their total net worth. I think it would be fun to watch. Don't you?Quote...tell the top 1% to go fuck themselves... Just because you bought a condo at a shitty time is no reason to summarily dehumanize three million people. Especially since all but a relative handful had nothing to do with you being (apparently irresistibly) enticed into doing so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #17 June 17, 2012 QuoteI'm sorry...i've lived in many countries and do you know what they love most about our country? Our middle class. And sadly it's under attack. Thus you have two choices? 1) get the hell out! or 2) be a patriot and tell the top 1% to go fuck themselves and bank with your local credit union. Telling your fellow American to go fuck themselves is being patriotic? How? Personally I don't like credit unions. Their service always suck. they lose your money, do not have many instruments to invest in, and they are not all over the place._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #18 June 18, 2012 Yeah but here is a fun one....how much TARP money did your local credit union take? Ahhhh wait..... And of those banks that took the TARP money how mnay of their CEO's are part of the 1% and did not loose any of their value? It's ok, I think like a good patriotic American I'll keep my money at the local credit union and and help my friends join up! Woo hoo! Want to tell the top 1% to go pound salt hit them where it hurts! Their finances! And the only way to do that is....going with a credit union.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #19 June 18, 2012 QuoteYeah but here is a fun one....how much TARP money did your local credit union take? Ahhhh wait..... And of those banks that took the TARP money how mnay of their CEO's are part of the 1% and did not loose any of their value? It's ok, I think like a good patriotic American I'll keep my money at the local credit union and and help my friends join up! Woo hoo! Want to tell the top 1% to go pound salt hit them where it hurts! Their finances! And the only way to do that is....going with a credit union. They couldnt take the TARP money. Laws are different between credit unions and banks. Credit unions who brag about not taking TARP money are not being genuine. Besides, all major banks had to take the TARP regardless if they needed it or not. This to prevent investors to run to the banks that didn't need it and cause the others to collapse; the reason behind the TARP in the first place._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 June 18, 2012 QuoteYeah but here is a fun one....how much TARP money did your local credit union take? Ahhhh wait..... Shah swings, and foul tips the ball. Quote The U.S. Treasury in recent weeks provided 48 credit unions with $69.91 million through a program aimed at boosting small-business lending in underserved communities, ahead of the Oct. 3 expiration of bailout authority under the Troubled Asset Relief Program. and while credit unions keep a lot more of their mortgages internal to the 'bank,' collectively they still sell over a third of them to the secondary market. I can think of many reasons to go with them, but the structure doesn't make them saintly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #21 June 18, 2012 Hey such is life! I could have helped BoA to stay in the top 1% and keep their money when I bought my new car and had paid 3% interest on the car with a $900 GAP insurance. Or Went with the credit union with, you are going to love the irony in all this, 1% interest rate (he he get it 1%) and only $300 GAP insurance. You see I as an American know I can't tell these people to go pound sand with my vote, and well the market isn't really free since the cost of entry is way too high so I can't exactly change my buying and life habits to be free from putting more money in their pockets...but this little finger in the eye...yeah I can do that! Funny isn't it? WE can be pissed at OPEC for the way they squeeze the nickels out of your ass, and we can put warnings on cigarettes about how tobacco is addictive and can kill you not to mention the strain it puts on our health care system. But we don't put any warnings on the top 1% and their relentless push to get more blood from the stone of the middle class. And if such a thought came up, well let's say the militant and over the top response is.....well it's actually kind of funny if you ask me! I guess my micro economics professor was right after all. Your average American voter/citizen has the IQ of a twice boiled carrot and it is our duty as the educated to take advantage of these morons. After all who votes against their own best interest?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #22 June 18, 2012 Quotewhat do you mean YOU people! He means you. You bought a house you didn't really want (the ex-wife wanted it) and paid more than the house was worth because you wanted it NOW at the top of the housing bubble. QuoteThese guys made a killing. And now we are getting killed. They got to keep their money...smart? I think? I didn't get killed. I bought less house than people told me to buy, I bought a house I could easily afford, and I saved up till I had 20% to put down. When I got laid off, I sold my house in a week and just about broke even. I then rented in the new area till I found a house that was smaller than what people told me to buy, that I could easily afford, and waited till I had the 20% down payment. PEOPLE made bad choices. YOU made a bad choice. You can blame people for making bad choices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #23 June 18, 2012 So the bank knew the value was less than what i was barrowing against it and thus took a huge risk in me? Assuming that I would have the means to pay for it? What kind of a dumb ass lends money to a guy who apparently has no clue what he's doing! HA! So all WE as a nation have to do is defult in unission and the top 1% loose 40% of their value! Well now! Now this could be fun! Talk about sticking it to the man! (fyi I only paid $25k more than value on the condo at the time. The thing has lost value but such is life. at least i have a job and a home and my value was 0 to begin with)Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #24 June 18, 2012 Quote So the bank knew the value was less than what i was barrowing against it and thus took a huge risk in me? Assuming that I would have the means to pay for it? The bank thought just like you that the house value would continue to rise. They are also in business to make money. What you are skipping is YOUR part in your failure. YOU decided something was worth what you paid. Quote What kind of a dumb ass lends money to a guy who apparently has no clue what he's doing! HA! So all WE as a nation have to do is defult in unission and the top 1% loose 40% of their value! People who are forced to loan money because of the Community Reinvestment Act. Quote Well now! Now this could be fun! Talk about sticking it to the man! Ah yes, blame others for you own failure Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #25 June 18, 2012 QuoteSo the bank knew the value was less than what i was barrowing against it Some one at the bank probably knew that real property values have been essentially flat in America since 1950 (there was a drop before that after we discovered mass production and went through the great depression) and in places like Amsterdam for centuries (with periodic bubbles like during the tulip bulb craze). Quote and thus took a huge risk in me? No. The risk for most loans is assumed by some one else. Sometimes the loans are bought, usually by Government Sponsored Enterprises. Sometimes only the risk is assumed. There's a reason the banking industry invests money in lobbying for things like a higher conforming loan limit that lets them collect origination fees on expensive California properties and then resell the loan and risk to the GSEs which have the implicit backing of the US Government and its tax payers. Quote Assuming that I would have the means to pay for it? They correctly assumed that they'd collect the origination fees on the loan in the spread between what they charged you and what the money cost them. They may have planned on collecting loan servicing fees until the loan was retired, sold, or foreclosed on. Quote What kind of a dumb ass lends money to a guy who apparently has no clue what he's doing! No one. OTOH, some smart asses do the deed once they've arranged for some one else to assume the risk. Quote HA! So all WE as a nation have to do is defult in unission and the top 1% loose 40% of their value! The top 1% shouldn't be dumb enough to have an appreciable fraction of their portfolio in residential mortgages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
