Mostly for Andy and Jerry...others can chime in

[davjohns 1]

Andy doesn't accept PMs and other opinions might be interesting...

There is a thread right now about paternity testing / child support issues. You either know or can read my personal experience.

When I retire from the Army and return to private practice in a couple of years, I am thinking about concentrating in family law. I think it would be a good practice to advise all male clients to get a paternity test and blame it on the lawyer. I've seen too many cases where this should have been done.

Thoughts? I may be letting my personal experience carry too much influence. There are definitely down sides to such a course of action.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[normiss 620]

First child support hearing in Florida, YEARS ago...my case was the last one called....I swear I watched six hours of "those aren't my kids!" responses from fathers.
Judge instantly orders (cost charged to father of course) paternity testing.
Judge was surprised when I said yup, my kids.
How the hell are you such a pussy of a man as to deny your own blood? In court????

Sad really....very sad.

You're a very brave man to take on family law.
I've never seen such hatred in humans as I have seen in family court.
SO glad that chapter is now closed forever. Child support is one VERY fucked up part of our "system" here in Florida.

[davjohns 1]

It was hard at first. You have to develop a thick skin.

Thanks for the input on paternity. It never crossed my mind to question it...until I found out I was wrong. That doesn't mean it is common, just possible.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

First child support hearing in Florida, YEARS ago...my case was the last one called....I swear I watched six hours of "those aren't my kids!" responses from fathers.
Judge instantly orders (cost charged to father of course) paternity testing.
Judge was surprised when I said yup, my kids.
How the hell are you such a pussy of a man as to deny your own blood? In court????

Sad really....very sad.

You're a very brave man to take on family law.
I've never seen such hatred in humans as I have seen in family court.
SO glad that chapter is now closed forever. Child support is one VERY fucked up part of our "system" here in Florida.

A friend of mine here is Iowa divorced a real witch years ago. They had a daughter to which he payed child support. His ex shacked up with a guy who had many differeing judgements against and so, he owed a bunch of people alot of money.

Well, she got knocked up (go firgure) but then, she turned around and sued my friend, (her ex) for child support for day care. She addmitted on the stand that the child was not her ex's in front of the judge. He knew her boyfriends background and said, OK, you pay the child support, the other dead beat has no money so you gonna pay

How about that?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 620]

I can't imagine finding something like that out.


Sorry you have.

[Southern_Man 0]

Depends on the circumstances but if there is any question of paternity then I would get a test. Note: you can get a test yourself, the judge doesn't have to order it (although if you have gotten to a hearing and not done it, this is the most straightforward way).

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[davjohns 1]

I think I got a little confused on the facts of the story.

If the child they have in common needs daycare so the mother can work, that is a legitimate factor in computing child support. Changes in employment or child care expenses may take the parties back to court to recompute the amount.

Are you saying she took him to court and admitted the original child was not his? That would be very odd.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

I think I got a little confused on the facts of the story.

If the child they have in common needs daycare so the mother can work, that is a legitimate factor in computing child support. Changes in employment or child care expenses may take the parties back to court to recompute the amount.

Are you saying she took him to court and admitted the original child was not his? That would be very odd.

The child was not his, she admitted that on the stand but other bum could not pay so the judge made my friend, who was not the father pay

Second time I heard of this happening

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Quote

I think I got a little confused on the facts of the story.

If the child they have in common needs daycare so the mother can work, that is a legitimate factor in computing child support. Changes in employment or child care expenses may take the parties back to court to recompute the amount.

Are you saying she took him to court and admitted the original child was not his? That would be very odd.

Sorry, this was her second child

They did have one in common

The judge made him pay for both

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

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(Dave): I think it would be a good practice to advise all male clients to get a paternity test and blame it on the lawyer. I've seen too many cases where this should have been done.

As an occasional practitioner, but not a specialist, in family law, but also as a career litigator, I think that sounds like a sensible strategy.

As an aside, I think there are some states that still make this rather difficult for putative fathers who were/are married to the putative mothers; in other words, many states, as I'm sure you know quite well, have statutes that create a conclusive, non-rebuttable presumption that a child born to married parents is the child of the father, and do not permit this to be overcome with a paternity test. IMO, as a matter of modern policy, given modern DNA technology and such, this should be at best a rebuttable presumption, regardless of marital status.

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(Normiss): You're a very brave man to take on family law.
I've never seen such hatred in humans as I have seen in family court.

Agreed 101%. My god, but it can be vile. It never ceases to amaze me how many people in the world who absolutely hate each other's guts, to the depths of their souls, have spent time together naked. I'd prefer to do none at all, but as a general practitioner, I do have to take a few on now and then in the interest of client relations. Still, I prefer to refer them out when I can. Give me something nice and clean, like a rape or arson, any day.

[marks2065 0]

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I think I got a little confused on the facts of the story.

If the child they have in common needs daycare so the mother can work, that is a legitimate factor in computing child support. Changes in employment or child care expenses may take the parties back to court to recompute the amount.

Are you saying she took him to court and admitted the original child was not his? That would be very odd.

not odd, sometimes the court looks at financial for its descisions. one that can pay gets the bill, keeps the mother off welfare.

[normiss 620]

I need to search for it....but in Florida, there is a child support chart that is used.
Entirely based on income and percentages of income of each parent to establish the amount to be paid.

I was at $2000/mo for three kids for a VERY long time.

This week will be MY first full paycheck since 1989.
Hello $810 per month raise.

[davjohns 1]

Alabama (where I practiced) has a rebuttable presumption of paternity. I agree that a non-rebuttable presumption is archaic in today's world.

To the other story: I have never heard of a man having to pay child support for a child born after the termination of marriage and with no evidence he is the father. I would love to fight on his behalf if he was in Alabama.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Southern_Man 0]

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Alabama (where I practiced) has a rebuttable presumption of paternity. I agree that a non-rebuttable presumption is archaic in today's world.

To be clear--they assume if you are married to the mother than you are the father, but you can dispute it?
Is this true regardless of the age of the child?

I think that is non-rebuttable in many states (or only able to be rebutted for a very lmiited time)

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[davjohns 1]

Right. A child conceived during the marriage is presumed to be the child of the husband. But that can be disputed. I'm surprised more states aren't like that. We don't want to create bastards, but neither do we want to reward adulteresses.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[airdvr 197]

After my divorce in '04 I had questions surrounding the possibility of my youngest not being mine. We tested her (unbeknownst to her) and it was fine. Thought long and hard about what I would have done had my daughter been his...never reached a good answer.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[davjohns 1]

I'm truly glad for you.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi dav,

I am the 'Jerry' you are referring to?

If so, why?

If not, proceed.

JerryBaumchen

[lawrocket 3]

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many states, as I'm sure you know quite well, have statutes that create a conclusive, non-rebuttable presumption that a child born to married parents is the child of the father, and do not permit this to be overcome with a paternity test. IMO, as a matter of modern policy, given modern DNA technology and such, this should be at best a rebuttable presumption, regardless of marital status.

The good counselor is correct in this. In California, the statute of Family Code section 7540: "Except as provided in Section 7541, the child of a wife cohabiting with her husband, who is not impotent or sterile, is conclusively presumed to be a child of the marriage."

Section 7541 provides that DNA tests and the conclusions of experts can overcome this presumption. A presumed father can motion the court for blood tests. However, the notice of motion for blood tests under this section may be filed not later than two years from the child's date of birth by the husband.

What's this mean? I've had at least a dozen guys find out that they are not the fathers of children. The oldest was 12 when they found out. Too late. If you think the kid isn't yours, you better act within two years.

There's a policy reason behind it. The State thinks that kids should be supported by people other than taxpayers. I agree with this. So my advice is always if you want to knock a woman up and avoid paying for it, knock up a woman married to another man who is not infertile.

And Dave - hopefully in a couple of years family law will be a better market. Right now it's rough because of the economy. I worked in Family Law and Real Estate nearly exclusively for five years. Both are pretty brutal from an interpersonal aspect. (I was a divorce lawyer who divorced a divorce lawyer. Can anybody on here beat that? Huh? )

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I was a divorce lawyer who divorced a divorce lawyer. Can anybody on here beat that?

Well, I do know quite a few criminals who have committed crimes against other criminals.

Hey, how about astronaut Lisa Nowak, who was married to a NASA contractor, and was having an affair with another astronaut, whose girlfriend was an Air Force Captain (working at the 45th Space Wing); Nowak drove 1,000 miles from Houston to Orlando (wearing diapers so she wouldn't have to waste time for pee breaks) and then attacked the girlfriend with pepper spray and tried to kidnap her?

OK, no.

[lawrocket 3]

Nowak was Navy. What would one expect?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 620]

Funny part about that whole story....it was later reported the diaper story was not true.
They just found some in her vehicle.

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Nowak was Navy. What would one expect?

Easy......

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[lawrocket 3]

I believe that am the "Jerry" that Dave is referring to. He knows a bit about my history and legal background because I sued him for paternity as a gag.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I believe that am the "Jerry" that Dave is referring to.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/12483/277673-175026-jerry_large.jpg

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He knows a bit about my history and legal background because I sued him for paternity as a gag.

That's why I try not to do family law. It makes me gag.