Rstanley0312 0 #26 June 6, 2012 Quote>I do not think the idea of the EPA is evil I do think our EPA is evil. Way too much >power and too many regulations. Take away its power and cut the number of regulations and it would be much friendlier to business. It would, in fact, look a lot like China's Ministry of Environmental Protection. Coal power a problem? Here in the US the solution is to require cleaner coal plants. Result - our air is pretty clean. In China the solution is a hefty bribe to the Ministry. Result - some of the worst air on the planet. That is not the current administrations plan nor the current EPA's plan. They want them gone and are passing regulation to make that happen.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #27 June 6, 2012 >That is not the current administrations plan nor the current EPA's plan. They want >them gone and are passing regulation to make that happen. Bullshit. If they wanted them gone, they'd be gone. They want them clean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #28 June 6, 2012 Quote Quote In order for the businesses to open in China they need to pay the piper. The businesses don't run things. The state does. Don't want to pay kickbacks? Then no doing business there. Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh no. The pay is that they give these Communist leaders jobs put them in a nice office and forget about them. Then they run like nutters doing all the things they can't do here to make products for you to by at Wallyworld. Big business wet dreams do NOT include paying a guy for nothing. That's a loss of money and inefficient. They are in China because it's cheaper to pay 100 bureaucrats to do nothing and 1000 other employees to do something than it is to pay 1000 employees here. It's that simple. In the US, it's the bureaucrats themselves who get greased. They've got the government job, the pension, and the star treatment from companies looking for that break. Look at it this way - who gets hired for these big positions in government? Yep - lobbyists. Lobbyists know that the big money and power isn't in lobbying. The kiss-asses want to have their asses kissed, which is in the government. Why do businesses bribe? Because it's an investment for them. Politicians and bureaucrats accept the bribes. Take the government power out of it, and bribes don't work anymore. Punish heavily any politician who accepts a bribe and corporate influence stops. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #29 June 6, 2012 Look you can sit and argue with me all you want. Why don't you read a little and then fly over and talk to a few people in China. Long and short of it, China is run by big business. Like it or not argue or agree it is what it is. Don't believe me go take a look for your self.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #30 June 6, 2012 QuoteLong and short of it, China is run by big business. China is run by the Chinese elite with influence form big business. Both share a portion of the blame for the current state of China, but the majority of the things you mention Shah are the result of the lesser value of human life that culture has. As evil as big business maybe, they're the ones that are sending monitors into the factories to ensure that workers have basic human rights, not the government. You may or may not believe it, but I live and attended grad school in the shadow of Wal-mart's Home Office and know the people who are the montiors for several of those firms. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #31 June 6, 2012 QuoteLong and short of it, China is run by big business. Like it or not argue or agree it is what it is. Short and sweet of it - you haven't pointed to a single thing that has not directly involved Chinese government corruption. if the business wants a break they have to go to the government and pony up. Why you are missing that is beyond me. I'm not saying that business is innocent. I'm saying that businesses exist to make money. Governments, apparently, exist so that their officials make money. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #32 June 6, 2012 Quote>That is not the current administrations plan nor the current EPA's plan. They want >them gone and are passing regulation to make that happen. Bullshit. If they wanted them gone, they'd be gone. They want them clean. Call it BS all you want... that is straight from Obama's mouth and an EPA big wig.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 June 6, 2012 QuoteLook you can sit and argue with me all you want. Why don't you read a little and then fly over and talk to a few people in China. Long and short of it, China is run by big business. Like it or not argue or agree it is what it is. Don't believe me go take a look for your self. when are you going to get the big picture, Shah? You constantly try to reach out with very incomplete information. Talking to a few people is poor social science. How many times have you tried to claim conversations with your world bank buddy as a source of great wisdom? Let's talk about a specific event in recent years - business in china went cheap on the ingredients for baby milk. Babies died. If big business ran the show as you claim, there wouldn't have been subsequence executions. And that's a huge difference between here and China. Romney can run the Bain cabal, stealing money from pension funds. And then run for President. In China, the government has the right, ability, and inclination to openly shoot your ass if you run afoul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #34 June 6, 2012 >Call it BS all you want... that is straight from Obama's mouth No, it's straight from FOX News, which is why it's bullshit. FOX news comment: " . . .a top Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) official admitting that the whole point of President Obama EPA’s air regulations was to kill coal." That's FOX News, not any actual comment from Obama or the EPA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #35 June 6, 2012 Quote Let's talk about a specific event in recent years - business in china went cheap on the ingredients for baby milk. Babies died. If big business ran the show as you claim, there wouldn't have been subsequence executions. And that's a huge difference between here and China. Romney can run the Bain cabal, stealing money from pension funds. And then run for President. In China, the government has the right, ability, and inclination to openly shoot your ass if you run afoul. Yeah...ok....and who were those people? Odds are they were not a part of the big business machine. Odds are they were just random Joe's walking the street. Who will miss 1 dick out of 1 billion? Not you not I Again, get on a plane fly over and take a look and come back and let us know how you feel. As for the big business going over to make sure that the working conditions in China are just slightly above slavery is due to the rules and laws we have in this country regarding such practices. If it wasn't for those rules and laws I assure you big business would love to uitlize child and slave labor. Why? Simple as you all have stated that the job of big business is to the most money possible....and the highest profit comes from.....the least level of regulation. Argue that one.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 June 6, 2012 Quote Yeah...ok....and who were those people? Odds are they were not a part of the big business machine. Odds are they were just random Joe's walking the street. You heard that saying "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #37 June 6, 2012 QuoteQuote Yeah...ok....and who were those people? Odds are they were not a part of the big business machine. Odds are they were just random Joe's walking the street. You heard that saying "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt?" Go to China, check it out!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #38 June 6, 2012 >As for the big business going over to make sure that the working conditions in China >are just slightly above slavery is due to the rules and laws we have in this country >regarding such practices. If it wasn't for those rules and laws I assure you big business >would love to uitlize child and slave labor. Speaking as one of those horrible big businesses - no, we wouldn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #39 June 6, 2012 Quote>Call it BS all you want... that is straight from Obama's mouth No, it's straight from FOX News, which is why it's bullshit. FOX news comment: " . . .a top Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) official admitting that the whole point of President Obama EPA’s air regulations was to kill coal." That's FOX News, not any actual comment from Obama or the EPA. Wrong Bill http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/04/region-1-epa-administrator-obama-coal-rules-painful-every-step-of-the-way/ This is a direct quote Obama has also said many things along this line. Btw... thanks for the article in Parachutist this month! Great read. Edited to add ----> “If someone wants to build a new coal-fired power plant they can, but it will bankrupt them because they will be charged a huge sum for all the greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.” -Candidate Barack Obama, 2008.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #40 June 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Yeah...ok....and who were those people? Odds are they were not a part of the big business machine. Odds are they were just random Joe's walking the street. You heard that saying "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt?" Go to China, check it out! don't need to go to China (though I have) to read the news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #41 June 6, 2012 Quote>As for the big business going over to make sure that the working conditions in China >are just slightly above slavery is due to the rules and laws we have in this country >regarding such practices. If it wasn't for those rules and laws I assure you big business >would love to uitlize child and slave labor. Speaking as one of those horrible big businesses - no, we wouldn't. You sure! Ask your self how much of your bottom line is taken up by overhead associated with clean facilities, ample light, clean air and safety? And how much more would a company make if they got rid of payroll? Numbers don't lie. There is nothing better for big business than slave or close to slave labor and zero regulations for it's workers and it's it's products.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #42 June 6, 2012 >http://dailycaller.com/...ery-step-of-the-way/ This is a direct quote Yep. And check it out! Nowhere do they say "we want them gone." Obama isn't even quoted. This is something called "truthiness." It works like this: FOX News says that "Obama plans to kill coal." It's not true, but conservatives feel in their gut that it is true; it is "truthy." Thus they believe it. Then another FOX affiliate says "Reports claim that Obama wants to 'kill coal'; coal miners outraged." A reader not familiar with FOX News tricks might think that Obama said he wants to "kill coal" (hence the quotes) rather than FOX just quoting itself. Here's a mission, should you decide to accept it - see if you can determine why utilities were getting away from coal even before this announcement, and why they will be doing so afterwards. >Btw... thanks for the article in Parachutist this month! No worries; glad it finally made it. It got delayed a few times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #43 June 6, 2012 >Ask your self how much of your bottom line is taken up by overhead associated >with clean facilities, ample light, clean air and safety? For us? Facilities and real estate consist of a tiny fraction of our overall operating expenses. >And how much more would a company make if they got rid of payroll? Uh . . . . zero. No workers, no product; no product, no profit. Are you sure you have an MBA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #44 June 6, 2012 Quote>http://dailycaller.com/...ery-step-of-the-way/ This is a direct quote Yep. And check it out! Nowhere do they say "we want them gone." Obama isn't even quoted. This is something called "truthiness." It works like this: FOX News says that "Obama plans to kill coal." It's not true, but conservatives feel in their gut that it is true; it is "truthy." Thus they believe it. Then another FOX affiliate says "Reports claim that Obama wants to 'kill coal'; coal miners outraged." A reader not familiar with FOX News tricks might think that Obama said he wants to "kill coal" (hence the quotes) rather than FOX just quoting itself. Here's a mission, should you decide to accept it - see if you can determine why utilities were getting away from coal even before this announcement, and why they will be doing so afterwards. >Btw... thanks for the article in Parachutist this month! No worries; glad it finally made it. It got delayed a few times. Did you read the quote from Obama in the post? I did not read the story I read the quote and he basically says it is there mission to stop coal. Maybe that is not what you get from it .... How about that Obama quote? What is your "interpretation" of it?Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #45 June 6, 2012 >What is your "interpretation" of it? That if a company wants to build a plant that does not meet the requirements it will be very expensive for them. Their choices thus are: -go bankrupt -build a plant (coal, gas, nuclear, whatever) that meets EPA requirements -don't build new plants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #46 June 6, 2012 Quote>What is your "interpretation" of it? That if a company wants to build a plant that does not meet the requirements it will be very expensive for them. Their choices thus are: -go bankrupt -build a plant (coal, gas, nuclear, whatever) that meets EPA requirements -don't build new plants Huh.... yup I can honestly say that is not even close to what I read. Communication and interpretation is always interesting.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #47 June 7, 2012 QuoteOver all it appeared to be a GOP'ers Big Business wet dream? Rights what rights? Seems like you do not know the GOP platform at all. And trying to use a COMMUNIST country as a GOP dream??? Really? You clearly do not know the GOP platform. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #48 June 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteOver all it appeared to be a GOP'ers Big Business wet dream? Rights what rights? Seems like you do not know the GOP platform at all. And trying to use a COMMUNIST country as a GOP dream??? Really? You clearly do not know the GOP platform. Big business and next to no regulations and hate gays love god? Sounds like China to me.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #49 June 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteOver all it appeared to be a GOP'ers Big Business wet dream? Rights what rights? Seems like you do not know the GOP platform at all. And trying to use a COMMUNIST country as a GOP dream??? Really? You clearly do not know the GOP platform. Big business and next to no regulations and hate gays love god? Sounds like China to me. Yup.... there is the problem. You are 100% wrong. That is not even close to what the GOP is about. You just threw out liberal loon propaganda.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
