$200k of debt and here is your paper.

[kelpdiver 2]

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on the public school side, it's driven by the states' inability or unwillingness (take your pick) to subsidize tuition to the degree it used to. That is the key driver for the University of California.

that's nuts (and the position is probably provided by that very University who has a vested interest in keeping their price high by any means possible)

- subsidizing anything drives the price UP. Out of control tuition is a direct result of TOO MUCH subsidizing by state and fed gov'ment

you're confusing issues...badly.

UC funding from California used to cover a majority of costs. The other primary sources were tuition (though they called it something else) and endowments. When I entered, it was $800/semester. When I left 4 years later, it was nearly 2000/semester. And now, it's at about 6400 and facing yet another large potential hike. The reason is that the state funding is now less than 20% of costs.

This is not a case of subsidized loans allow the school to charge more. This is a case of the university system needing to charge more to replace lost funding from the state. And I'm sure it's present in other public school systems as well.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Let me tell you something my Stats teacher once told me.

And it may be hard to understand at first.
But here it goes and before you try to spin it or come back with a half ass rebuttal write it down and think about it.


Jesus walked on water.
But odds are the rest of us will need to swim.


Do you understand what that means?

What I understand is that most are shackled by self imposed limitations we place upon ourselves. I don't expect you to really understand that. I expect you to make more of the same excuses that prevent you from gaining your freedom.

I have always been struck by the tiny little chain that they tie around a circus elephants leg. The elephant could easily break that chain, but he never does because when he was a baby, they used a larger, thicker chain. He finally becomes convinced he cannot escape so he just quits trying. As time goes by, they are able to use a very small chain that serves as a reminder that the shackle cannot be broken. The chain holding the elephant back is mostly in his head. Occasionally an elephant becomes frustrated or angry enough and forgets he cannot break free. Once he does, he realizes the chains cannot hold him any longer.

This is the difference between you and a Bill Gates etc....

[shah269 0]

Read what I wrote again. And this time think about it.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Read what I wrote again. And this time think about it.

you should do the same with what gravitymaster wrote, particularly the last sentence referencing Bill Gates.

[lawrocket 3]

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In Reply To
I note something else: it's not just private schools that are going through the roof. Public schools are also increasing their tuition/"student fees" at a remarkable rate. Why is that? Why isn't government keeping things inexpensive? My answer is - it can't.

Of course it can, it just chooses to spend its money elsewhere.

That doesn't keep the actual cost of it down. What it does is lower the price for the student. The cost remains the same - maybe even more.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

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Read what I wrote again. And this time think about it.

you should do the same with what gravitymaster wrote, particularly the last sentence referencing Bill Gates.

Yeah Mr. Gates can walk on water because he was at the right place at the right time and just so happens to have bought the right bit of code and is now worth a good ammount of money.

OK let's just call that good luck.
Good luck means low odds.

Will this happen to you? Nope! Will it happen? yeah!

Jesus walked on water! You and I will have to swim.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[DougH 270]

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colleges and universities have gone waaay overboard, with their arrogant tuition increases, idiotic salaries, compensation plans for "professors"...(most of whom are "one trick ponies" who generally Know Nothing!! or very little,,, about ANy subject or life issues,, OTHER than their OWn field of study ) and sense of "self-importance" ONE main reason tuition keeps climbing Everywhere... is because of the very LOAN programs... which are supposed to HELP students.. the colleges all figure... " what the hell, if these families are gonna borrow 5 grand a year... why not just have them borrow TEN grand a year"... or MORE !!! and Soooo they push their prices, in an unfair and unjustified way... And it's not only tuition... Ever check out the cost of room and board, at some colleges??? it's crazy. I could have sent my kids to live at a nearby Hilton Hotel, for less $$$$... VERY pleased to have gotten Both kids through their college degrees, one a bachelors, and ONE a MAsters... since the longer this goes on, the wilder the costs WILL become..... Should colleges NOT at least be expected to show SOME results...such as solid assistance in securing a decent JOB.... As the percentage of successful employment of graduates continues to drop.... so too should the "asking price"..for the "less than useful degree".
A Hundred grand to Two hundred grand.... is an awful lot of coin... to simply see your kid walk across some stage.. that is generally a footbal field distance AWAY from where the parents sit..... The GOOD seats are taken by all the faculty, administrators, and phoney baloneys, who seem soooo prevalent at ANY college... It's a sin, and a damn shame... HAlf of them teach only a couple of courses a semester, have more time OFF than On,,,, and don't even get me started about paid sabbaticals and grant funding ...

My son, who is dilligently paying off the last of his college loans asked me the other day,, " Hey Dad,?? why does my savings account only pay me " point 5 % " interest, while these damn loans are charging me SIX & a HALF % " ?????... i could not answer...
Of every 88 dollars a month that he sends in,,,,only 52, gets applied to principal, 36 goes to INTEREST!!!!. WHAT the Hell is the deal with THAT!!!??????? just wonderin'......

Jimmmmmmaaaaay X2 x2 x2 Man!

Prefessers and Administrateers bleeding students dry. Just another ponzi scheme.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[BlindBrick 0]

Because until they fixed it in 2005, when the CO economy slowed down, it locked down spending even after economic recovery. Whilethat was fixed, the system is still handicapped because it also fails to take into account that capital improvements tend to appear as blips in the financial planning rather than getting allcoated out over the years.

Frex. When I was in Student housing, a dorm had a lifespan of 25 years before it needed major refit or replacement. When that came due it typicaly was charged out over one or at most two years budgets otherwise the legislative beancounters would start looking covetously at a building account that would hold millions yet be untouched for years at a time. Under TABOR in '02-'03, we were locked down to below operating costs. Yet in '04 when we needed to recover from being forced into the red in '03 plus needed extra money for a new dorm we couldn't get it because we were still locked down to '03 funding levels.


Could TABOR be made to work? Undoubtedly, but until there's some panic switches built in that allow the idealism to be shaped by reality and the government is broken of the "use it or lose it" budgeting/accounting mindset, it'll do more harm then good.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[kelpdiver 2]

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Read what I wrote again. And this time think about it.

you should do the same with what gravitymaster wrote, particularly the last sentence referencing Bill Gates.

Yeah Mr. Gates can walk on water because he was at the right place at the right time and just so happens to have bought the right bit of code and is now worth a good ammount of money.

OK let's just call that good luck.
Good luck means low odds.

The odds are zero when you don't even try.

[shah269 0]

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Read what I wrote again. And this time think about it.

you should do the same with what gravitymaster wrote, particularly the last sentence referencing Bill Gates.

Yeah Mr. Gates can walk on water because he was at the right place at the right time and just so happens to have bought the right bit of code and is now worth a good ammount of money.

OK let's just call that good luck.
Good luck means low odds.

The odds are zero when you don't even try.

University education alows you to hedge your bets. Improve your odds of living a good life.

Sorry if i don't live long shot to long shot. I'm not a CEO of a big investment firm gambling with other peoples money.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Read what I wrote again. And this time think about it.

you should do the same with what gravitymaster wrote, particularly the last sentence referencing Bill Gates.

Yeah Mr. Gates can walk on water because he was at the right place at the right time and just so happens to have bought the right bit of code and is now worth a good ammount of money.

OK let's just call that good luck.
Good luck means low odds.

Will this happen to you? Nope! Will it happen? yeah!

Jesus walked on water! You and I will have to swim.

This is exactly the type of thinking that holds you back. It's pretty much what I expected, though.

[shah269 0]

OK well how about this you try and walk on water and let me know how it works out for you.

I'll hedge my best and take the bridge.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[rehmwa 2]

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OK well how about this you try and walk on water and let me know how it works out for you.

I'll hedge my best and take the bridge.

I'll take your bet. But I get to choose where and what time of year I make the attempt.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[winsor 186]

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OK well how about this you try and walk on water and let me know how it works out for you.

I'll hedge my best and take the bridge.

I let it cool off a little and break out the skates. Works like a champ.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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OK well how about this you try and walk on water and let me know how it works out for you.

I'll hedge my best and take the bridge.

Of course you will. That's what your programming has accomplished. Try understanding your defeatist attitudes. You know, the one that enables you to come up with such creative roadblocks and excuses for your failures. Blame it all on the world and the people around you. After all, they are the ones who really control you. Just like a puppet on a string. Dance little puppet!!!

[shah269 0]

As he's walking into the water....soon all you will hear is bubble bubble bubble and he will think.....how did Jesus do this?

Oh yeah, it was 1/1,000,000

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Gravitymaster 0]

Learn to get out of your own way and your life will be much happier.

[DaVinci 0]

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But let's assume you graduate with a degree in Classics and $150k in debt. Now we're looking at something else entirely.

Govt backed student loans should only be for degrees like engineering, liberal arts do not have the ROI.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But let's assume you graduate with a degree in Classics and $150k in debt. Now we're looking at something else entirely.

Govt backed student loans should only be for degrees like engineering, liberal arts do not have the ROI.

poor generalization. Many liberal arts degrees are the route to law school (polisci in particular) and that is reflected in the average salaries. (mine was well above that average)

From a policy perspective, good luck enforcing a subset of majors. College students often change, and in many programs can't even declare until they've met the lower division requirements successfully.

[billvon 2,396]

>Govt backed student loans should only be for degrees like engineering,
>liberal arts do not have the ROI.

So a government body should decide winner and loser majors?

[DaVinci 0]

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>Govt backed student loans should only be for degrees like engineering,
>liberal arts do not have the ROI.

So a government body should decide winner and loser majors?

It is called "investment". You don't invest in things that do not bring in a return.

Engineering - Yes.
Accounting - Yes.
English lit - No.

Why would the govt back a loan that is never going to be paid back?

[billvon 2,396]

>It is called "investment". You don't invest in things that do not bring in a return.

OK. So government investment in engineering degrees - good, Liberal arts - bad.

Rail - good. Roads - bad.

Free prenatal care - good. Veteran's benefits - bad.

[DaVinci 0]

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>It is called "investment". You don't invest in things that do not bring in a return.

OK. So government investment in engineering degrees - good, Liberal arts - bad.

Rail - good. Roads - bad.

Free prenatal care - good. Veteran's benefits - bad.

You either are being obtuse, or you don't understand. I think I know which it is, but I''l try one time to explain it in simple terms.

The Govt should not be taking risks by backing loans for degrees that will not provide an education that will pay enough to actually pay those loans back.

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OK. So government investment in engineering degrees - good, Liberal arts - bad.

Yep, and engineer will make 100k+, A Liberal arts major 30-40k *maybe* in most cases.

Which would YOU personally invest in with your OWN money?

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Rail - good. Roads - bad.

Here you either choose to be difficult or didn't grasp it..... I don't know many roads designed by a liberal arts major.

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Free prenatal care - good. Veteran's benefits - bad.

Again, this has nothing to do with this subject.....

[billvon 2,396]

>Which would YOU personally invest in with your OWN money?

Depends. If it's in my 401k? Probably in the engineer. If it's in a friend who has wanted all her life to be an artist, and is a damn good one already? Might go with the artist.

But without the additional knowledge, the engineer is the better choice financially.

>Here you either choose to be difficult or didn't grasp it..... I don't know
>many roads designed by a liberal arts major.

Nor did I claim they did.

You said that the government should not invest in things that do not bring in a good return. Trains (specifically Amtrak) bring in money through ticket sales. Roads bring in far less via tolls. Therefore, if you really believe that the government should only invest in things that have a good return, then roads are out and trains are in. Veteran's benefits are out and prenatal care is in.

But I don't think you really believe that.

[rehmwa 2]

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But let's assume you graduate with a degree in Classics and $150k in debt. Now we're looking at something else entirely.

Govt backed student loans should only be for degrees like engineering, liberal arts do not have the ROI.

from this ^ post down to the latest is a great example of the flaw of social politics


everyone is arguing about who should get the freebies and who shouldn't.

How about staying out of it and letting individuals decide what they want and they can pay for it or get loans as the market allows.

Instead, it's just a struggle over who gets to screw over who in a situation where everybody gets screwed a bit just so the favored class of recipients can get a minor benefit in exchange for voting a certain way.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants