$200k of debt and here is your paper.

[shah269 0]

$200k of debt and here is your paper but good luck paying it off sucker!

So I mentor many kids here in NJ. Great kids! But we say that about our own kids. Anyhow long story short all of my kids are smart enough to get into university, all of them are smart enough to get into good engineering schools and all of them are unfortunate enough to be middle class.

And I was talking to them the other night and it just shocked the hell out of me that the price of public university education is just north of $35k and private can be as high as $50k.

And in 4 years these kids can be up to their eyes in debt before they start their first day on the job! How can you expect an economy to grow if so much capital is stripped from the pockets of educated middle class folks and transferred into the pockets of the well to do and pension funds?

I'm sorry I love economics and I wish I had majored in that instead of engineering but well help me out. How the hell is this a good way to grow an economy let alone produce a stable society?

I don't have any solution to this but I just can't help but be very pissed off by it!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2011/07/06/the_college_scam

You can thank the government for looking out "for the children".

[shah269 0]

Let me tell you something my Stats teacher once told me.

And it may be hard to understand at first.
But here it goes and before you try to spin it or come back with a half ass rebuttal write it down and think about it.


Jesus walked on water.
But odds are the rest of us will need to swim.


Do you understand what that means?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[normiss 622]

Who is this jesus?

[shah269 0]

Quote

Who is this Jesus?

Gods other kid. You know George Bushes' not so important brother.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[rushmc 18]

Jesus walked on the water
And I know that is true
But somethimes I think that preach man wants to do a little walking too

Now I aint asking nobody for nothin

If I cant git it on my own

If you dont like the way I livin

Just leave this long haired country boy alone

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jimmytavino 16]

colleges and universities have gone waaay overboard, with their arrogant tuition increases, idiotic salaries, compensation plans for "professors"...(most of whom are "one trick ponies" who generally Know Nothing!! or very little,,, about ANy subject or life issues,, OTHER than their OWn field of study ) and sense of "self-importance" ONE main reason tuition keeps climbing Everywhere... is because of the very LOAN programs... which are supposed to HELP students.. the colleges all figure... " what the hell, if these families are gonna borrow 5 grand a year... why not just have them borrow TEN grand a year"... or MORE !!! and Soooo they push their prices, in an unfair and unjustified way... And it's not only tuition... Ever check out the cost of room and board, at some colleges??? it's crazy. I could have sent my kids to live at a nearby Hilton Hotel, for less $$$$... VERY pleased to have gotten Both kids through their college degrees, one a bachelors, and ONE a MAsters... since the longer this goes on, the wilder the costs WILL become..... Should colleges NOT at least be expected to show SOME results...such as solid assistance in securing a decent JOB.... As the percentage of successful employment of graduates continues to drop.... so too should the "asking price"..for the "less than useful degree".
A Hundred grand to Two hundred grand.... is an awful lot of coin... to simply see your kid walk across some stage.. that is generally a footbal field distance AWAY from where the parents sit..... The GOOD seats are taken by all the faculty, administrators, and phoney baloneys, who seem soooo prevalent at ANY college... It's a sin, and a damn shame... HAlf of them teach only a couple of courses a semester, have more time OFF than On,,,, and don't even get me started about paid sabbaticals and grant funding ...

My son, who is dilligently paying off the last of his college loans asked me the other day,, " Hey Dad,?? why does my savings account only pay me " point 5 % " interest, while these damn loans are charging me SIX & a HALF % " ?????... i could not answer...
Of every 88 dollars a month that he sends in,,,,only 52, gets applied to principal, 36 goes to INTEREST!!!!. WHAT the Hell is the deal with THAT!!!??????? just wonderin'......

[StreetScooby 5]

My son is finishing his junior year in high school. I am floored by the cost of "good" colleges, which are asking $60K/year. Ridiculous money. Even NY state colleges want $20K/year (which is where I live). Unbelievable amounts of money. To boot, I'm perceived as rich by the government. They'll happily loan me money at 8%/year.

We are all engines of karma

[rushmc 18]

Quote

My son is finishing his junior year in high school. I am floored by the cost of "good" colleges, which are asking $60K/year. Ridiculous money. Even NY state colleges want $20K/year (which is where I live). Unbelievable amounts of money. To boot, I'm perceived as rich by the government. They'll happily loan me money at 8%/year.

Whcih beggs the question

Why is big education off the table?

Big oil, big insurance and big others are all targets for the left when it comes to price increases?

Why not big education?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Should colleges NOT at least be expected to show SOME results...such as solid assistance in securing a decent JOB.... As the percentage of successful employment of graduates continues to drop.... so too should the "asking price"..for the "less than useful degree".

Supply and demand. When people start demanding a fair return the colleges will do better with justifying their prices. I believe one of the things that prevent people from demanding such accountability is that the cost is generally deferred through debt.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[shah269 0]

Quote

Of every 88 dollars a month that he sends in,,,,only 52, gets applied to principal, 36 goes to INTEREST!!!!. WHAT the Hell is the deal with THAT!!!??????? just wonderin'......

Very good question isn't it?
Well...I could say to cover CEO pay. And that would be half true. But well to be honest if i have it right...the money he's paying back goes to your retirement.
So....in a way he is helping you to retire?
I don't know man the system is broken!

I graduated in 2002 from a SUNY school and it was all of $15k a year. This year my youngest brother is about to graduate and it's just north of $25k a year.

All i can say is W-T-F

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[normiss 622]

I thought you were an economics expert???

[shah269 0]

Quote

I thought you were an economics expert???

God I wish it is such an elegent field of study!
I do enjoy reading conomics books so if you know of any good ones let me know.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

This is where cost/benefit comes in.

Kallend posted a pretty interesting link about what college majors pay the most and which pay the least. Let's say you are out of school at 23 with a degree in some form of engineering and $150k in debt. Assuming you obtain employment working for someone else, the debt load is manageable if you can start working at $50l per year.

But let's assume you graduate with a degree in Classics and $150k in debt. Now we're looking at something else entirely. The market for employees in classics is limited, and the higher paying jobs even more so. Thus, the person is left trying to find something else to do just to pay the bills and not be saddled with the debt that comes with it.

The price is rising because demand is, too. Eventually, the price will be high enough that people forego college. True, it does lead to college being paid for only by those who can afford it. But as the student rolls drop, the price will begin to drop to attract more people.

I note something else: it's not just private schools that are going through the roof. Public schools are also increasing their tuition/"student fees" at a remarkable rate. Why is that? Why isn't government keeping things inexpensive? My answer is - it can't.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I note something else: it's not just private schools that are going through the roof. Public schools are also increasing their tuition/"student fees" at a remarkable rate. Why is that? Why isn't government keeping things inexpensive? My answer is - it can't.

on the public school side, it's driven by the states' inability or unwillingness (take your pick) to subsidize tuition to the degree it used to. That is the key driver for the University of California.

[BillyVance 34]

It's pretty ridiculous for sure. I've got Hancock 529 plans for both of my girls to help cover their future college costs, but I am going to go out on a limb and "pray" they get straight A's in school and give themselves the best chances of a full-ride scholarship. Hell, even half a scholarship would be groovy! My job as a father is to encourage them to do the very best they can, after all, they do come from a line of high achievers (my father and brother were straight A students)

Otherwise, it's off to community or junior college.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Should colleges NOT at least be expected to show SOME results...such as solid assistance in securing a decent JOB.... As the percentage of successful employment of graduates continues to drop.... so too should the "asking price"..for the "less than useful degree".

Supply and demand. When people start demanding a fair return the colleges will do better with justifying their prices. I believe one of the things that prevent people from demanding such accountability is that the cost is generally deferred through debt.

But even this is pretty messed up. Last year I read an article (I think in Fortune) that talk about how a middle of the road private school increased their prices markedly and saw a dramatic rise in the number of applications. Before that, apparently, they looked too "cheap."

[NewGuy2005 51]

Quote

My son is finishing his junior year in high school. I am floored by the cost of "good" colleges, which are asking $60K/year. Ridiculous money.

You think you have it bad? I have twins finishing their junior year in high school.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

So I mentor many kids . . .

Am I the only one here who is disturbed by this???

[dontlikemustard 0]

Quote

This is where cost/benefit comes in.

Kallend posted a pretty interesting link about what college majors pay the most and which pay the least. Let's say you are out of school at 23 with a degree in some form of engineering and $150k in debt. Assuming you obtain employment working for someone else, the debt load is manageable if you can start working at $50l per year.

This is true, except that I graduated in a class of about 100 civil engineers and about 25 of us actually found work so far. Considering the fact that about 10 of those got jobs through their dads businesses I would say it sucks even for those with degrees with technical backgrounds right now.

Not living in a dorm, working, and staying at a local public university has allowed me to graduate with $7,800 of debt in the end. So there are still ways around this shitty educational system.

Quote

I note something else: it's not just private schools that are going through the roof. Public schools are also increasing their tuition/"student fees" at a remarkable rate. Why is that? Why isn't government keeping things inexpensive? My answer is - it can't.

Of course it can, it just chooses to spend its money elsewhere.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

on the public school side, it's driven by the states' inability or unwillingness (take your pick) to subsidize tuition to the degree it used to. That is the key driver for the University of California.

that's nuts (and the position is probably provided by that very University who has a vested interest in keeping their price high by any means possible)

- subsidizing anything drives the price UP. Out of control tuition is a direct result of TOO MUCH subsidizing by state and fed gov'ment

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

$200k of debt and here is your paper but good luck paying it off sucker!

So I mentor many kids here in NJ. Great kids! But we say that about our own kids. Anyhow long story short all of my kids are smart enough to get into university, all of them are smart enough to get into good engineering schools and all of them are unfortunate enough to be middle class.

And I was talking to them the other night and it just shocked the hell out of me that the price of public university education is just north of $35k and private can be as high as $50k.

No.

Public school in a fun state where you can live by yourself, "get an education" (instead of being stifled by your parents), and maybe slap a brand name on yourself costs that much.

In-state tuition and fees someplace like CU Boulder is about $11,000 a year. Other schools are similar but more likely to be surrounded by cornfields not mountains.

Of course your degree still says "CU Boulder" when you get core classes out of the way first at Front Range Community college which runs only $105 per credit hour or about $3150 a year. Doing so doesn't even preclude graduating summa cum laude.

2 x 3,150 + 2 x $11000 = 28,300. Fees add a few hundred more to the community college tab so you might round to $30K. Living with house mates you can get by on well under $1000/month living by yourself, or $24K for 2 years.

Divide by 4 years and you're looking at $13,500 a year for a "university" degree which you could pay for working summers and half-time during the school year if that was available.

Or you could just finish at community college and spend under $3,500 a year.

Quote

I'm sorry I love economics and I wish I had majored in that instead of engineering but well help me out. How the hell is this a good way to grow an economy let alone produce a stable society?

America is _NOT_ about making a stable society. It's about serving corporatist interests which are many and varied.

For instance we exempt student loan debt from bankruptcy so the financial industry can write and profit on loans that otherwise would not make sense. More money chasing the same number of college slots does cause tuition to rise which hurts students; but they can't afford their own lobbyists so they don't count.

We let professors teach just 9-15 hours a week versus 30 for high school teachers and give them teams of assistants for menial chores like grading papers. Obviously more professors means higher tuition which hurts students; but unlike professors students don't have unions looking after their interests.

Quote

I don't have any solution to this but I just can't help but be very pissed off by it!

I have a great solution:

Don't spend more money than you can afford to.

When it comes to college that means attending schools that you and your parents can cover with assets or _realistically_ expect to pay back with earnings from your degree. Obviously, community college at $3500/year fits in with a lot more profession + family wealth combinations than private schools running $50K/year for tuition alone.

Some places give job candidates credit for going to expensive schools. I don't because where peoples' parents could afford to send them (or how much debt they were willing to accept) has little to do with how well they'll do their job or even perform in the interview process.

More expensive schools may even count as a negative because of the incentive to game the system to make more profits, like graduating more students that aren't capable enough to survive in the real world. My favorite professor got in trouble for failing too many students (who couldn't handle engineering, but did bring valuable out of state tuition payments to the college and department) and was no longer allowed to teach a core class. Her replacement didn't fail so many people and there was a significant increase in my company's reject rate interviewing graduates.

[BlindBrick 0]

Let's not forget the other half of spiraling college costs in many states, joe public passing feel good balanced budget laws that strangle public colleges.
I've worked for colleges in OK and CO, and you be amazed at how much that constrains a college.

I worked as a maintenance coordinator in CO and we had a 2.5 year back log on maintenance on student housing because we simply didn't have the money for staff or repairs. Only safety/sanitation issues were addressed.

You do that for a few years and it drains your rainy day fund, and since the government isn't allowed to give you any more money and your finanical boosters are all tapped out in a rough economy, all that's left is to go to your final funding source, the students.



-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Let's not forget the other half of spiraling college costs in many states, joe public passing feel good balanced budget laws that strangle public colleges.
I've worked for colleges in OK and CO, and you be amazed at how much that constrains a college.

Colorado allows spending to increase at the rate of inflation multiplied by population growth.

Why isn't that enough?

It's actually relatively generous in a world where real wages are dropping.

[normiss 622]

Nope.