Shotgun 1
mnealtx 0
QuoteAnyhow, my point was that if he had taken the common sense advice of letting the police handle the situation (not getting out of his vehicle to follow TM), we probably wouldn't be talking about him right now because he probably never would have had a reason to shoot Trayvon Martin.
And if Trayvon Martin had taken the common sense advice of continuing to the house instead of doubling back to confront/attack George Zimmerman, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteQuoteAnyhow, my point was that if he had taken the common sense advice of letting the police handle the situation (not getting out of his vehicle to follow TM), we probably wouldn't be talking about him right now because he probably never would have had a reason to shoot Trayvon Martin.
And if Trayvon Martin had taken the common sense advice of continuing to the house instead of doubling back to confront/attack George Zimmerman, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.
Or if TM had done what GZ did and simply called the Police, we wouldn't be talking about this now.
Shotgun 1
QuoteAnd if Trayvon Martin had taken the common sense advice of continuing to the house instead of doubling back to confront/attack George Zimmerman, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.
You don't know that Trayvon doubled back or that he was the one who started the confrontation. Only two people have stories about this (GZ and TM's girlfriend), and they conflict with each other. But, of course, you can choose to believe one over the other. Personally, I'll leave it as I don't know who confronted whom.
mnealtx 0
QuoteYou don't know that Trayvon doubled back
Since you've listened to the 911 call, you certainly recall that Zimmerman didn't want to give out his address because he didn't know where Martin was.
So, how *else* did Martin end up back at the scene?
QuoteBut, of course, you can choose to believe one over the other. Personally, I'll leave it as I don't know who confronted whom.
Funny, the tenor of your posts seem to suggest otherwise.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
muff528 3
I may have missed it in all the reporting but I wonder when Zim's call to the 911 operator ended. I think they like to stay connected until LE, Rescue, etc. is on the scene. Anyone recall?
Shotgun 1
QuoteSince you've listened to the 911 call, you certainly recall that Zimmerman didn't want to give out his address because he didn't know where Martin was.
So, how *else* did Martin end up back at the scene?
Who knows? Zimmerman may have continued looking for him. Martin may have come back to confront Zimmerman. I have no reason to believe Zimmerman over Martin's girlfriend, or her over him.
I honestly don't understand how some people have so confidently picked sides in this case. There are very few clear details.
Shotgun 1
QuoteI may have missed it in all the reporting but I wonder when Zim's call to the 911 operator ended. I think they like to stay connected until LE, Rescue, etc. is on the scene. Anyone recall?
I don't think it was even a 911 call. Seems like they said he had called the "non-emergency" number, or something like that. But it doesn't appear that he was still on the call when the confrontation happened (unfortunately - if he had been, it would be a lot more clear who started it).
DaVinci 0
QuoteIt's a little bit similar
If you think... But in one case a guy picked up a gun and went into a KNOWN situation. The other is a guy that had a gun and came across a situation. One a guy was just a homeowner, the other he was the neighborhood watch captain. One the guy went to engage, the other he went to investigate. One case the guy started the confrontation, the other he claims he was just observing and then LEFT the area and was attacked.
Vastly different situations.
Shotgun 1
QuoteOne the guy went to engage, the other he went to investigate. One case the guy started the confrontation, the other he claims he was just observing and then LEFT the area and was attacked.
We don't know exactly why Zimmerman left his truck, getting himself further into the "situation," or that he did not start the confrontation. It's quite possible that his story is true, but we have no way of knowing. I guess one of the main differences in the two cases is that there is more known about what actually happened in the TX case.
Oh, and Z didn't claim that he had LEFT the area; he said he was leaving the area. But the location where TM was shot does not either confirm nor contradict Z's claim.
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteIt's a little bit similar
If you think... But in one case a guy picked up a gun and went into a KNOWN situation. The other is a guy that had a gun and came across a situation. One a guy was just a homeowner, the other he was the neighborhood watch captain. One the guy went to engage, the other he went to investigate. One case the guy started the confrontation, the other he claims he was just observing and then LEFT the area and was attacked.
Vastly different situations.
A neighborhood watch captain, by definition, goes out looking for trouble.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
DaVinci 0
QuoteWe don't know exactly why Zimmerman left his truck, getting himself further into the "situation," or that he did not start the confrontation.
We know he left his truck to follow the guy. He states that himself. We also know he said he turned around when the dispatcher told him that it was not needed. We do know that Martin's GF said he turned around and started a discussion with Zimmerman:
"DeeDee said Martin turned around and asked Zimmerman why he was following him. "The man said what are you doing around here?" DeeDee recalled".
We also know that Martin never called the police and Zimmerman DID.
QuoteI guess one of the main differences in the two cases is that there is more known about what actually happened in the TX case.
Another major difference between the two cases.
Shotgun 1
QuoteA neighborhood watch captain, by definition, goes out looking for trouble.
Well, "looking for suspicious activity" might be a more appropriate description than "looking for trouble." I'm pretty sure that neighborhood watch programs stress that volunteers should only REPORT suspicious activity to law enforcement; NEVER investigate it on their own.
DaVinci 0
QuoteA neighborhood watch captain, by definition, goes out looking for trouble.
Try reading it again. I never said he didn't go out looking for trouble, I said one went out into a known situation VS coming across one. One went out to engage, one went out to investigate.
Definitions are important, paying attention to detail is as well.
Shotgun 1
QuoteWe do know that Martin's GF said he turned around and started a discussion with Zimmerman:
"DeeDee said Martin turned around and asked Zimmerman why he was following him. "The man said what are you doing around here?" DeeDee recalled".
Which contradicts Z's account of what was said and done. So we don't know what actually happened at this point, one way or another.
QuoteWe also know that Martin never called the police and Zimmerman DID.
And the guy who got killed in Texas never called the police, but his shooter DID. What does that have to do with anything? (Aside from being another similarity between the two cases.
)
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteA neighborhood watch captain, by definition, goes out looking for trouble.
Try reading it again. I never said he didn't go out looking for trouble, I said one went out into a known situation VS coming across one. One went out to engage, one went out to investigate.
Definitions are important, paying attention to detail is as well.
I guess you forgot what you wrote in post #2276, this thread
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
skypuppy 1
QuoteQuoteQuoteA neighborhood watch captain, by definition, goes out looking for trouble.
Try reading it again. I never said he didn't go out looking for trouble, I said one went out into a known situation VS coming across one. One went out to engage, one went out to investigate.
Definitions are important, paying attention to detail is as well.
I guess you forgot what you wrote in post #2276, this thread
Zimmerman was not on duty as neighborhood watchman, he was simply returning home from somewhere. So he was not actively 'looking for trouble' as you so elequently put it...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Accept for the fact many have convicted him already
Last I knew, (but the law does seem to matter much less lately) people were innocent until being convicted
Which it seems many have convicted him already
They may have convicted him in their minds, but he's not actually convicted.
In my eyes, he is innocent until proven guilty. And from what I've seen, my guess is that there is not enough evidence to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of second-degree murder. Manslaughter, perhaps, but I honestly don't know, and it's not up to me.
Anyhow, my point was that if he had taken the common sense advice of letting the police handle the situation (not getting out of his vehicle to follow TM), we probably wouldn't be talking about him right now because he probably never would have had a reason to shoot Trayvon Martin.