How is "racist" defined?

[Skyrad 0]

Interesting question and good idea for a thread.

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Is it "racist" if the delivery driver happens to notice that black customers generally don't tip very well?

No but it would be racist to attribute the cause of the non tipping to the colour of his customers skin.

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Or to express disgust at the pants-around-the-thighs "ghetto" types?

No, that is a dislike of fashion possibly the people who wear them but nothing in that makes comment on the colour of the wearer.

Personally I make a distinction between being prejudice and being racist. Whats the difference? In my experience everyone is prejudice in some way (myself included). Being prejudice simply means to pre-judge. Its an important part of our survival strategy. See a gang of black males walking towards you you may decide to cross over the road, that is prejudging. After you cross the road you walk into a bar, a couple of minutes later the gang of black men walk into the bar and some engage you in friendly conversation and buy you a drink. The prejudice at this point gives way to making individual judgements based on personality and behaviour. A racist would still dislike them regardless of any other trait beyond their colour.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Sometimes it's data. If, however, someone rationalizes the same behavior coming from another group, but not from the "target" group, it might just be racism.

I.e. -- if it's OK for poor-looking white people to be lousy tippers, because they can't afford it, but it's not OK for black people, well, it might be an incomplete evaluation.

Exactly, correlation does not infer causation.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[diablopilot 2]

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Well, I would've said "negative reactions" rather then "negative reactive actions.

Reaction implies immediate uncontrolled response, like snatching one's hand back from flame, or jumping at the sound of a train's horn close by.

Though grammatically awkward, I chose "negative reactive actions" to imply an negative or harmful action considered and implemented in response to the naturally formed thoughts or preconceived notions.

Savvy?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Andy9o8 0]

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most of whom could not find Chad or Zimbabwe on a map

Ooh! There's a good example. (Seriously.) If you said that to mean X, it's probably not racist. But if you said that to mean Y, then it probably is.

Justice Potter Stewart once described the difficulty of defining pornography, then adding, "I know it when I see it." Parallel logic can be attributed to this term's definition, too. One man's racism is another person's race card. But dammit, I know it when I see it.

[Marinus 0]

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Justice Potter Stewart once described the difficulty of defining pornography, then adding, "I know it when I see it." Parallel logic can be attributed to this term's definition, too. One man's racism is another person's race card. But dammit, I know it when I see it.

Exactely, I also know it when I see it, for example: this is obvious racism:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02134/ssFLAG_2134019b.jpg

Or is it?

Personally I think racism is too big of a deal to be quick and easy with drawing conclusions. Even if I'm sure someone is a racist, I explicitly ask them if they are.

[Andy9o8 0]

Not all Nazi-era glorification is necessarily racist. The History Channel, for example, could just as well be called the Hitlery Channel.
Is it Nazi-era glorification? See other thread.

[Marinus 0]

That's just how you look at it. Too me flaunting SS runes is obviously racist, I'm smart enough to understand that it's different for others, but if I see people pose with an SS rune flag, my first reaction is "They must be racist".

[pirana 0]

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A person has very little control over their initial thoughts and feelings to outside simuli based on their past experiences and socializations.

To think a certain way or have a pre conceived notion is not racist.

To exhibit anti social behavior or negative reactive actions because of those thoughts or notions IS racist.

I think having a preconceived notion about someone, based on their skin color, is practically the definition of racist. Just because they were instilled as a normal way of being during childhood does not make the actions, or holding of notions any less racist. It's like saying "It's not my fault, it's how I was raised."

I was quite racist thru the end of my teen years. It's what I learned from my dad and uncles. My environment was highly charged with racism, and it all seemed normal - but it was still racist and so was I. It was learned, and then it was unlearned - or more accurately - something else was learned over the top of it.

For purposes of discussing what is racist and who exhibits such behavior, racist is as racist does. How it got there and whether the person perceives themselves or others as racist is a different topic. IOW - the definition of racist and racist behavior does not change because of how the person came to be that way.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[wlsc 0]

The school to prison system for blacks is also obviously racist.

[Coreece 189]

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I think having a preconceived notion about someone, based on their skin color, is practically the definition of racist.

I think it's because of these types of shallow incomplete definitions that we are having so much confusion.

Would I be racist if I had a preconceived notion that a black man had a large penis?

In order to be true to the definition of "racist," those preconceived notions have to at least be accompanied by feelings of superiority over the other race. In more extreme cases there will be oppression of a certain race...and in the worst cases that oppression can become violent, like "American History X" violent.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[wmw999 2,116]

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Would I be racist if I had a preconceived notion that a black man had a large penis?

I think that it could in fact be racist.

I can say that there are more women in college than men right now, and that more women than men complete college and advanced degrees. But for me to say that means that men are less capable based on the "evidence" would be sexist. There are a lot of other things that go into those statistics.

Ignoring the effect of other factors to focus on race (or gender) would be, often, racist (or genderist, or whateverelseist).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,380]

>Would I be racist if I had a preconceived notion that a black man had a large penis?

If you think ALL black men have big penises - then yes, that would be considered racist. You are judging people based purely on their race. But if that's as far as it went (your private opinion on the matter) no one will care, and it will be a non-issue.

The time it becomes an issue, of course, is when that is part of a reason to denigrate black men. "Well, they're just more violent - heck, even their bodies are different."

[wlsc 0]

'extreme cases' like the the prison system that violently oppresses blacks.

[Marinus 0]

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If you think ALL black men have big penises - then yes, that would be considered racist.

The statement "All black men have large penises", doesn't necessarily imply that black men are inferior or superior to white men. Notions of inferiority/superiority are essential for something to be considered racism IMO.

[Coreece 189]

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'extreme cases' like the the prison system that violently oppresses blacks.

Perhaps...what exactly do you consider to be racist about the prison system?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Marinus 0]

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I think having a preconceived notion about someone, based on their skin color, is practically the definition of racist.

despite your statement I suspect that you consider a group of blonde, blue eyed Caucasians from a group called the Nazis , who beat up a blond, blue eyed Jewish Caucasians to pulp because he's Jewish, to be racist.

[wlsc 0]

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'extreme cases' like the the prison system that violently oppresses blacks.

Perhaps...what exactly do you consider to be racist about the prison system?

First examine its outcome. Which is a racist outcome.

[metalslug 31]

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despite your statement I suspect that you consider a group of blonde, blue eyed Caucasians from a group called the Nazis , who beat up a blond, blue eyed Jewish Caucasians to pulp because he's Jewish, to be racist.

Why would you suspect him of that ? Judaism is not a race.
I do agree, however, that skin colour alone makes for an incomplete definition. Growing up in old South Africa, I have arguably known more racists than most people have, and skin colour was not at the forefront of their prejudices.

[Marinus 0]

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Why would you suspect him of that ? Judaism is not a race.

Agreed, but Nazis didn't hate Jews because of their religion, but because of their race. It's because of that, that for example the Holocaust is widely seen as a racist atrocity, despite the fact it was mostly Caucasians killing other Caucasians, because they were perceived as being from an inferior race. I think that's why racism is kinda hard to define: even if there are real human races, which I doubt, the classification of humans is done in a completely arbitrary way.

[Guest]

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I draw the line at a double-standard.

If something is reprehensible for a member of group A to say regarding a member of group B, but a member of group B gets a pass for saying something equally reprehensible about a member of group A, I have a problem with that.

For example, I have been subjected to venomous racial slurs by people whose impunity was by dint of a fashionable skin color, where I would have faced charges if I had been the one uttering venomous racial slurs.

Whenever a subject becomes the third rail of social interaction, things get crazy. You can have a detailed discussion of equine or canine breeds and genders, but when the species under consideration is human, all bets are off. It as though one is forced to pretend that Chihuahuas and Mastiffs are interchangeable, or that Clydesdales and Arabians must be equally represented in a race or in a team. Add to that, of course, the requirement that no preference be made to whether we have a stallion, mare or gelding.

I have met exceptional people from all parts of the world, and I have come across few groups that did not have some seriously bad apples.

Having said that, I think that having identical expectations of people coming from vastly different cultures is absurd. Something that might be quite normal in Osaka could be viewed as horrific in Santiago and vice-versa.

At any rate, organizations with race-based agenda are, by definition, racist. I see the Aryan Nation to be no more or less racist than the NAACP or BET. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are professional racists to a greater extent than is David Duke.

Having spent an awful lot more time in Africa that all but a vanishingly small number of American negroes (most of whom could not find Chad or Zimbabwe on a map), if I ever refer to anyone as an "African American" they are likely to be Berber or Boer.

"Racism" is largely a cop out.


BSBD,

Winsor

Thanks, Winsor. Well put. I'll pass your remarks on to my Boer friends.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Being raised among the European upper class, I have found many elitists to be racists.

[Skyrad 0]

Nice one Wills, hows Kate?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Wrong royal family

[winsor 185]

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Being raised among the European upper class, I have found many elitists to be racists.

Your point?

[SkyDekker 1,120]

You are mixing animal, human, race, and culture justifying your standpoint.

You're a pretty smart guy, I am sure you can figure out my point.