The Stimulus

[Iceburner 0]

So, how can you argue with these facts?


Three Years Of Failed Policies
$825 BILLION WORTH OF BROKEN PROMISES

THE STIMULUS FAILED TO KEEP UNEMPLOYMENT BELOW EIGHT PERCENT

PROMISE: Obama’s Economic Advisors Crafted A Stimulus Bill They Predicted Would Keep Unemployment Below Eight Percent. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)

Obama Released A Graph So “The American People Can See Exactly What This Plan Will Mean For Their Families, Their Communities, And Our Economy.” “I asked my nominee for Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, Dr. Christina Romer, and the Vice President-Elect’s Chief Economic Adviser, Dr. Jared Bernstein, to conduct a rigorous analysis of this plan and come up with projections of how many jobs it will create – and what kind of jobs they will be. Today, I am releasing a report of their findings so that the American people can see exactly what this plan will mean for their families, their communities, and our economy.” (President-Elect Barack Obama, The President Elect’s Radio Address, 1/10/09)
BROKEN: Congressional Budget Office: Unemployment Has Remained Above Eight Percent For The Longest Stretch Since The Great Depression. “The rate of unemployment in the United States has exceeded 8 percent since February 2009, making the past three years the longest stretch of high unemployment in this country since the Great Depression.” (“Understanding And Responding To Persistently High Unemployment,” Congressional Budget Office, 2/16/12)
The Unemployment Rate Has Remained Above Eight Percent For A Post-WWII Record 36 Straight Months Since The Stimulus Was Passed. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/17/12)

The Unemployment Rate Peaked At 10.0 Percent In October 2009. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/17/12)Obama’s Advisors Made Projections About How Many Jobs The Stimulus Would Create That Were Dead Wrong

Obama Said His Advisors Conducted “A Rigorous Analysis” With Projections Of “How Many Jobs It Will Create – And What Kind Of Jobs They Will Be.” OBAMA: “I asked my nominee for Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, Dr. Christina Romer, and the Vice President-Elect’s Chief Economic Adviser, Dr. Jared Bernstein, to conduct a rigorous analysis of this plan and come up with projections of how many jobs it will create – and what kind of jobs they will be.” (President-Elect Barack Obama, The President Elect’s Radio Address, 1/10/09)

Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 26,000 Jobs In The Mining Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)

By The End Of 2010, The Mining Industry Had Lost 9,600 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 678,000 Jobs In The Construction Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Construction Industry Had Lost 971,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 408,000 Jobs In The Manufacturing Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Manufacturing Industry Had Lost 811,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 158,000 Jobs In The Wholesale Trade Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Wholesale Trade Industry Had Lost 242,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 604,000 Jobs In The Retail Trade Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Retail Trade Industry Had Lost 199,700 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 50,000 Jobs In The Information Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Information Industry Had Lost 189,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 214,000 Jobs In The Financial Activities Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Financial Activities Industry Had Lost 225,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 499,000 Jobs In The Leisure And Hospitality Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Leisure And Hospitality Industry Had Lost 41,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 11,000 Jobs In The Utilities Industry By The End Of 2010.. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Utilities Industry Had Lost 10,200 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 98,000 Jobs In The Transportation And Warehousing Industry By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Transportation And Warehousing Industry Had Lost 107,400 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)Obama’s Advisors Predicted The Stimulus Would Create 244,000 Government Jobs By The End Of 2010. (Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, “The Job Impact Of The American Recovery And Reinvestment Plan,” 1/9/09)
By The End Of 2010, The Government Had Lost 319,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Accessed 2/16/12)The Stimulus Has Fallen Far Short Of What Obama Predicted, Even He Admits That

To Richard Wolffe, Obama “Also Admitted That The Enormous Sums Of Money” In The Stimulus “Had Fallen Short.” “Yet he also admitted that the enormous sums of money had fallen short. ‘If we’re honest, part of the controversy also is that despite the extraordinary work that has been done through the Recovery Act, millions of Americans are still without jobs. Millions more are struggling to make ends meet. So it doesn’t yet feel like much of a recovery. And I understand that. It’s why we’re going to continue to do everything in our power to turn this economy around.’” (Richard Wolffe, Revival: The Struggle For Survival Inside The Obama White House, 2010, p. 155)

FactCheck.org: “It’s Accurate To Say The Stimulus Has Failed To Live Up To Initial Expectations.” “CBO's high estimate is still short of the 3.5 million jobs that Obama had said would be created by the end of 2010, so it's accurate to say the stimulus has failed to live up to initial expectations. White House advisers wrongly estimated that the stimulus would bring the unemployment rate down to 7 percent — though they also thought the rate without the stimulus would be lower than it actually is, and they made clear that ‘substantial uncertainty’ surrounded those estimates.” (Lori Robertson, “Dueling Economic Ads,” Fact Check, 6/30/11)

[kallend 1,620]

I can argue with almost anything that comes from a GOP mouthpiece organization.

You forgot to cite your source.

www.gop.com/index.php/briefing/comments/stimulus_deconstructed/

I think they're just pissed that the stock market FELL 24% during the Bush administration, and is UP 70% since Obama took over.

Or it could be that domestic oil production has risen more in Obama's term than in the entire 8 Bush years.

Clearly something is fueling the hatred.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[devildog 0]

Quote

I can argue with almost anything that comes from a GOP mouthpiece organization.

You forgot to cite your source.

www.gop.com/index.php/briefing/comments/stimulus_deconstructed/

I think they're just pissed that the stock market FELL 24% during the Bush administration, and is UP 70% since Obama took over.

Or it could be that domestic oil production has risen more in Obama's term than in the entire 8 Bush years.

Clearly something is fueling the hatred.

You mean it fell when the Dems had control of the House and Senate and still hasn't recovered?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[kallend 1,620]

Quote

Quote

I can argue with almost anything that comes from a GOP mouthpiece organization.

You forgot to cite your source.

www.gop.com/index.php/briefing/comments/stimulus_deconstructed/

I think they're just pissed that the stock market FELL 24% during the Bush administration, and is UP 70% since Obama took over.

Or it could be that domestic oil production has risen more in Obama's term than in the entire 8 Bush years.

Clearly something is fueling the hatred.

You mean it fell when the Dems had control of the House and Senate and still hasn't recovered?

Not very clever switching blame from White House to Capitol when your rant is deconstructed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Iceburner 0]

Actually when I posted this, I didn't care who was in the white house. The sitimulus was praised by obama and congress as the answer to our problems. It failed, and it failed bad...and as the leader who signed off on it he holds responsibility. So again, how can you say this was money well spent? How has this helped our country, and if this is one of the things he promised would work, how can you believe his other promises? Repub or dem I think the country needs to hit reset n throw em all out. Im thrilled they finally passed the STOCK act...who knew trading on insider info was illegal. The morals and ethics our govt is running with are beyond horrible, and if we don't have a moral or ethical compass in our govt our country is fucked

[kallend 1,620]

Quote

Actually when I posted this, I didn't care who was in the white house.

How can you claim that, after posting an ODS rant from a GOP web site? Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[devildog 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I can argue with almost anything that comes from a GOP mouthpiece organization.

You forgot to cite your source.

www.gop.com/index.php/briefing/comments/stimulus_deconstructed/

I think they're just pissed that the stock market FELL 24% during the Bush administration, and is UP 70% since Obama took over.

Or it could be that domestic oil production has risen more in Obama's term than in the entire 8 Bush years.

Clearly something is fueling the hatred.

You mean it fell when the Dems had control of the House and Senate and still hasn't recovered?

Not very clever switching blame from White House to Capitol when your rant is deconstructed.

What rant of mine was deconstructed?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[lawrocket 3]

"It's easy to make phony promises." - President Obama, last week.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bertt 0]

Sorry guys, but I'm so tired of hearing that Obama screwed up the economy, I have to do this.

A guy was backing out of his driveway and ran over his dog, which was sleeping in the driveway behind his truck. He immediately threw the dog in the truck and drove to the local vet. The vet took the dog into surgery. About a half hour later, the vet came out and told the man, "I'm sorry, but your dog has died."
The man was furious and spent several minutes berating the vet. The vet listened calmly. When the man stopped his abuse of the "incompetent" vet, the vet said quietly, "I'd have had a better chance of saving him if you hadn't run over him before you brought him in."

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[ShcShc11 0]

Quote

Actually when I posted this, I didn't care who was in the white house. The sitimulus was praised by obama and congress as the answer to our problems. It failed, and it failed bad...and as the leader who signed off on it he holds responsibility. So again, how can you say this was money well spent? How has this helped our country, and if this is one of the things he promised would work, how can you believe his other promises?

No.

The stimulus enacted by Obama in 2009 were inadequate to plug a U.S output gap of 3 trillion+ $.

A 700B$ stimulus that consists a major part of ineffective tax-cuts is hardly anything considering at how big the financial crisis was in 2008. Oh and don't forget most States slashed their budgets.

The stimulus stopped the hemorrhagic economy from freefalling, but too small to bring anything near to full-employment.


THE ALTERNATIVE PROPOSITION GIVEN:
Expansionary austerity... aka cut debt.

Let's look at what's happening with our good friends in Britain who advocated: "SLASH NOW! DEBT IMMINENT!"

http://static.bdo.uk.com/assets/documents/2010/12/BDO_business_trends_-_December_2010.pdf

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_VgJQTp0Bsf0/TW_RZtr7uxI/AAAAAAAAAR8/Lk8tqJcxdGM/bdo.jpg


"The British government already must borrow £112 billion ($172 billion) more than it had planned when it announced its deficit-reduction plan in June 2010."

Emphasis on the chart. Business confidence at an all-time low due to austerity measures plans.

Deliberately cutting the deficit is not the best way for a government to balance its books. Deficit reduction in a depressed economy is the road not to recovery, but to contraction, because it means cutting the national income on which the government’s revenues depend. This will make it harder, not easier, for it to cut the deficit.

[billvon 2,380]

>So, how can you argue with these facts?

NYT:

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Based on its economic models, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that between 1.4 million and 3.4 million workers who have jobs would be unemployed if the stimulus hadn’t been enacted. Three of the best-known private economic research firms — IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com — have come up with similar estimates. The average estimated effect on employment is about 2.5 million jobs.
========

Or if you prefer graphics see below.

[kallend 1,620]

Quote

>So, how can you argue with these facts?

NYT:

========
Based on its economic models, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that between 1.4 million and 3.4 million workers who have jobs would be unemployed if the stimulus hadn’t been enacted. Three of the best-known private economic research firms — IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com — have come up with similar estimates. The average estimated effect on employment is about 2.5 million jobs.
========

Or if you prefer graphics see below.

It's like arguing with the Red Queen.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Trafficdiver 8]

Quote

>So, how can you argue with these facts?

NYT:

========
Based on its economic models, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that between 1.4 million and 3.4 million workers who have jobs would be unemployed if the stimulus hadn’t been enacted. Three of the best-known private economic research firms — IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com — have come up with similar estimates. The average estimated effect on employment is about 2.5 million jobs.
========

Or if you prefer graphics see below.

So by the facts provided in the second graph the GDP only grows during the stimulus time period. Once it ends, growth ends Do you suggest we pass a stimulus every year to keep the GDP growing?

If so, do we borrow more money from China to pay for it?

[billvon 2,380]

>So by the facts provided in the second graph the GDP only grows during the stimulus
>time period. Once it ends, growth ends Do you suggest we pass a stimulus every year
>to keep the GDP growing?

No. I think it's a bad idea even if it does shorten the recession. Economies have natural cycles, and messing with them sometimes has unexpected results.

And if you _must_ mess with them, then indirect means like infrastructure investment is a much better way to have a positive impact than just handing out money.