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Skyrad

USMC or SS?

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I think WWII has started to fade in our collective memories, and no longer has the same associations for people. Nowadays some people think Nazis are just cool badass almost-cartoon villains, seen more often in silly adventure movies than in history books.

You see the same thing with people identifying with the Confederacy. I suspect few people identify with domestic terrorists who killed half a million Americans; they identify more with an idealized badass rebel who doesn't let The Man keep him down.

And of course imagine a hip 20 year old woman showing off the Japanese characters she had tattooed on her neck in Honolulu in 1950.

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I think WWII has started to fade in our collective memories, and no longer has the same associations for people. Nowadays some people think Nazis are just cool badass almost-cartoon villains, seen more often in silly adventure movies than in history books.

You see the same thing with people identifying with the Confederacy. I suspect few people identify with domestic terrorists who killed half a million Americans; they identify more with an idealized badass rebel who doesn't let The Man keep him down.

And of course imagine a hip 20 year old woman showing off the Japanese characters she had tattooed on her neck in Honolulu in 1950.



You raised a qustion that I've had for a long time. Do people who get Japanese characters tattooed on their bodies really know what they mean?


Chuck

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I think WWII has started to fade in our collective memories, and no longer has the same associations for people. Nowadays some people think Nazis are just cool badass almost-cartoon villains, seen more often in silly adventure movies than in history books.

You see the same thing with people identifying with the Confederacy. I suspect few people identify with domestic terrorists who killed half a million Americans; they identify more with an idealized badass rebel who doesn't let The Man keep him down.

And of course imagine a hip 20 year old woman showing off the Japanese characters she had tattooed on her neck in Honolulu in 1950.



Don't forget about pirates of the past few centuries. Many forgot how horrible a people they were. Makes good movies though. . .
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Seems these US Marines are not sure themselves. They've pissed on the memory of those murdered at Malmedy, shame on them.



According to the story they were just looking for a neat military symbol of "Scout-Sniper". I don't think they pissed on anyone's memory, except the terrorists that they hunt down and kill to keep our troops safe.

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I think WWII has started to fade in our collective memories, and no longer has the same associations for people. Nowadays some people think Nazis are just cool badass almost-cartoon villains, seen more often in silly adventure movies than in history books.

You see the same thing with people identifying with the Confederacy. I suspect few people identify with domestic terrorists who killed half a million Americans; they identify more with an idealized badass rebel who doesn't let The Man keep him down.

And of course imagine a hip 20 year old woman showing off the Japanese characters she had tattooed on her neck in Honolulu in 1950.



Some have already forgotten the horror of 911.

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You raised a qustion that I've had for a long time. Do people who get Japanese characters tattooed on their bodies really know what they mean?


Chuck



most people just assume whatever symbol they have on them means what the shop/artist says it does, they dont do any outside research on their own.
Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

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You raised a qustion that I've had for a long time. Do people who get Japanese characters tattooed on their bodies really know what they mean?


Chuck



most people just assume whatever symbol they have on them means what the shop/artist says it does, they dont do any outside research on their own.


The tattoo artist could have a lot of fun! Might not be too safe for the bearer of the tattoo. :D


Chuck

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I think WWII has started to fade in our collective memories, and no longer has the same associations for people. Nowadays some people think Nazis are just cool badass almost-cartoon villains, seen more often in silly adventure movies than in history books.

You see the same thing with people identifying with the Confederacy. I suspect few people identify with domestic terrorists who killed half a million Americans; they identify more with an idealized badass rebel who doesn't let The Man keep him down.

And of course imagine a hip 20 year old woman showing off the Japanese characters she had tattooed on her neck in Honolulu in 1950.



What you think you know about the Confederacy is grossly inaccurate, and what you do not know about the Confederacy is extensive.

Slavery, abhorrent though it may be, was but a flashpoint issue - and largely a red herring when all was said and done.

To equate the soldiers who defended their homes against the invaders from the foreign country to the North with the SS is beyond offensive.

Ignorance is no excuse.

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Some have already forgotten the horror of 911.



Or, and this seems more likely to me: some are still celebrating the horrors of 911.



He could re-live that horror by walking around downtown Manhatten with that shirt on. Or anywhere else in the U.S. Except maybe San Francisco or some other liberal enclave.

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+1000 on that!!!
the first thing that comes to mind when i think of the confederacy is how lucky the north got too many times...i had the fortune to grow up the son of a southern historian who took us on family vacations to battlefields all around the shenendoah valley, some of the fondest trips i can recall. it may have had roots with slavery, but it was more the result of government not heeding the rights granted to the states in the constitution.
southereners were true patriots in every respect who heeded the words of jefferson(i think, have to check) when he said we have not a right, but a responsibility to act when our rights are at risk(or something along those lines, it's a bit early)
am i a fan of racism? no! my thoughts are that every single legal citizen of this country should have the same rights as every other legal citizen. this makes me an outspoken proponent of gay marriage, zero gun restrictions for non-felons(5 day waiting period is ok, it is needed to ensure legality of purchase and allows a cooling off period for hotheads), and any other means of fighting discrimination...
but of course, someone is always gonna bitch, because "it's all about me" in this day and age...
http://kitswv.com

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>Slavery, abhorrent though it may be, was but a flashpoint issue - and largely a red
>herring when all was said and done.

Never said anything about slavery.

>To equate the soldiers who defended their homes against the invaders from the
>foreign country to the North with the SS is beyond offensive.

Didn't equate them.

Your post illustrates well how a group seen as criminals by one segment of the population is seen as heroes by another.

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>Slavery, abhorrent though it may be, was but a flashpoint issue - and largely a red
>herring when all was said and done.

Never said anything about slavery.

>To equate the soldiers who defended their homes against the invaders from the
>foreign country to the North with the SS is beyond offensive.

Didn't equate them.

Your post illustrates well how a group seen as criminals by one segment of the population is seen as heroes by another.



Not quite.

The reference to the Confederacy and terrorism resulting in the death of half a million Americans when discussing the adoption of SS runes by Scout Snipers carries a number of ugly implications.

The crimes against humanity (above and beyond the usual horrors of war) for which the SS was guilty? The intentional slaughter of many millions of noncombatants.

The crimes against humanity for which the Confederacy was guilty? Slavery.

The reference was thinly veiled.

Do I view the soldiers of one side or another as "heroes?" Nope.

There were examples of selfless heroism - as well as unimaginable savagery - on both sides.

Although Nathan Bedford Forrest is a distant relative, I consider his actions in many instances to have been entirely loathsome. Whatever tactical genius he may have possessed does not make up for his despicable conduct.

Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, OTOH, was possessed of an equal level of military skill, but was also possessed of a rare level of personal integrity.

If you must be snarky, please do so with a little more skill.


BSBD,

Winsor

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>The crimes against humanity (above and beyond the usual horrors of war) for which
>the SS was guilty? The intentional slaughter of many millions of noncombatants.

>The crimes against humanity for which the Confederacy was guilty? Slavery.

And again, you are defending them. Many people saw them as domestic terrorists. Others see them as heroes.

And that, of course, is not the point. Despite your attempt to turn this into a defense of the South you have missed the point of the post, and have made the same error that many who condemn the Marines have made. Almost no one is saying that the Marines are "just like the Nazis" just because they use their symbol; they just think it's badass. Almost no one who flies a Confederate flag identifies themselves with domestic terrorism or slavery, they just think that it's cool.

Why does it become a big deal? Because people have knee-jerk reactions to certain things. For some any reference to Nazis requires condemnation, for others any criticism of the Confederacy requires defense.

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>The crimes against humanity (above and beyond the usual horrors of war) for which
>the SS was guilty? The intentional slaughter of many millions of noncombatants.

>The crimes against humanity for which the Confederacy was guilty? Slavery.

And again, you are defending someone you see as heroes. Many people saw them as domestic terrorists. No doubt if several blue states seized military bases because Santorum was elected, and started a bloody war that killed half a million Americans, they'd be seen the same way today by the rest of the country. (And no doubt within those states many would see them as heroes defending their homes from the evil Santorum.)

And that, of course, is not the point. Despite your attempt to turn this into a defense of the South you have missed the point of the post, and have made the same error that many who condemn the Marines have made. Almost no one is saying that the Marines are "just like the Nazis" just because they use their symbol; they just think it's badass. Almost no one who flies a Confederate flag identifies themselves with domestic terrorism or slavery, they just think that it's cool.

Why does it become a big deal? Because people have knee-jerk reactions to certain things. For some any reference to Nazis requires condemnation, for others any criticism of the Confederacy requires defense.



I am puzzled by what possesses you to ascribe to me motives of which I am unaware.

"Many people saw them as domestic terrorists?"

Argumentum ad Populum - followed, of course, by a false analogy.

Let's pick another analogy. Bosnia-Herzogovina seceded from Yugoslavia, and was subjected to an onslaught of troops from other states of Yugoslavia coming in with malice and aforethought. I am sure people in the states providing the troops thought badly of the secessionists, and thought they "started a war," but that does not make it the truth.

Do I think one group or the other are "heroes?" Not as far as I can tell, but you may know better.

My guess as to what you describe as the "Confederate Flag" is, in fact, the Battle Flag of the Confederacy. You may know what the National Flag of the CSA actually looks like, but it would not surprise me if you did not.

The significance of the Battle Flag is similar to that of a Combat Patch on an Army uniform. It was flown in the defense of the homeland against foreign invaders.

Having lived in Germany and spent quite a bit of time in discussion with Rabbis having a solid grasp of history, I do not take so simplistic a view of the Third Reich or the Holocaust as is typical.

Similarly, having at least as much time in the Occupied Confederacy as I have on Union turf, I do not take so simplistic a view as you seem to suggest.

I strongly suggest that you lay off the knee-jerk reactions. I do not suggest, nor do I expect, that you should agree with me, but submit that it is a good idea to understand that which you presume to criticize.


BSBD,

Winsor

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OK, let's try this with examples that do not push your buttons.

Someone can fly a pirate flag without supporting piracy.

Someone can have the Japanese words "divine wind" tattooed on their necks without supporting the kamikaze attacks on the US during WWII.

Someone can have an SS flag without supporting genocide or world conquest.

Attached is a picture I took in a parking lot on the way to work. It is likely that the person who put it there does not support the slave trade.

Would you tend to agree with the above?

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Damn..... that is dumb. That flag most assuredly displays SS runes.
Jarheads aren't really noted for their capacity to think beyond the superficial. Fixing bayonets, and charging, even though the rifle's mag is still full, is a USMC trait that has been mused over for decades.
Kids.....!! Whaddya gonna do?

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>Scout Sniper's, S-S, easy to hand cut and sew lines over curves, hmm. I think the
>media went way over on this one.

While I don't think the resemblance to the Nazi flag is entirely coincidental, I do agree the media went overboard on it.



Maybe, but I think the simplicity is a key factor. One can even respect their enemies battle field prowess (not he political and genocidal stuff), maybe, this is a little of that.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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>One can even respect their enemies battle field prowess (not he political and genocidal
>stuff), maybe, this is a little of that.

That's what I'm thinking, and that's the point I was trying to make above. Using an SS flag (or an SS-like flag) doesn't mean you believe in genocide - you may just be a soldier who thinks that the SS were effective.

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Seems these US Marines are not sure themselves. They've pissed on the memory of those murdered at Malmedy, shame on them.



According to the story they were just looking for a neat military symbol of "Scout-Sniper". I don't think they pissed on anyone's memory, except the terrorists that they hunt down and kill to keep our troops safe.



'a neat military symbol ' Are you having a laugh?
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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