An Ignored 'Disparity'

[StreetScooby 5]

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But "received letter in football at USC (ending No. 5 in country in polls)" is a head start that WILL be something that makes him stand out.

This happens alot on the street. What people see in an accomplished athlete is someone who is disciplined, and has experience working as a member of a team. That's highly valued. Generally speaking, this sentiment is valid.

We are all engines of karma

[BoogeyMan 0]

All true...... Nebraska, here. There's no way, I begrudge an athlete anything they gain. Athletes sacrifice a lot. Too many have no idea what goes on there.
Again, there are many factors in this debate. Singling out one factor, dims the light that should illuminate the others.
I reject that, as a nation, we do not try to do everything we can to assist education, students and educators. Whether or not those funds are being competently administered is another on going question.

[BoogeyMan 0]

Most hiring managers don't hire enough students from different schools to really differentiate, do they? I sure didn't when I was one. I had to base it on course load, GPA, outside activities, and university reputation. As well as interview (which, of course, is also suspect, since it tends to bias the hire towards people who are similar to the interviewer, or who are just generally likeable).


Yes, they do..... UofM gets the jobs in South Florida. Central Fl, Gators will do very well. Up north, Seminoles are the ticket. Unless you're a lawyer.............
Try taking a UCLA-Berkley diploma to the state of Ga. and see if you get hired over a UG or a GT alum. Not..!!

[wmw999 2,120]

And that is, of course, based entirely on academic excellence, right?

I used to know a manager who'd hire a Texas Aggie over nearly anyone else, too. That doesn't mean that A&M is a better school, does it?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[BoogeyMan 0]

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And that is, of course, based entirely on academic excellence, right?

I used to know a manager who'd hire a Texas Aggie over nearly anyone else, too. That doesn't mean that A&M is a better school, does it?

Wendy P.

Who knows.....? But we are making a dandy case for my football/alum analogy.
Seriously, at your next function, circumnavigate the room and eavesdrop. You will see the MD's grouped up complaining about the insurance industry. The financiers apoplectic about the Fed, and SEC. The lawyers.... ahhh... who cares...? Buncha crabs and pettifoggers, all.

[wmw999 2,120]

Your football analogy seems to leave out schools with poor or nonexistent football programs that seem to otherwise be excellent schools; e.g. the Ivy League.

Or don't they count?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,623]

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Your football analogy seems to leave out schools with poor or nonexistent football programs that seem to otherwise be excellent schools; e.g. the Ivy League.

Or don't they count?

Wendy P.

Right, who'd want to hire an MIT graduate?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BoogeyMan 0]

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Your football analogy seems to leave out schools with poor or nonexistent football programs that seem to otherwise be excellent schools; e.g. the Ivy League.

Or don't they count?

Wendy P.

Ivy League schools have great programs. The Yale/Have-add game is famous.

[BoogeyMan 0]

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Your football analogy seems to leave out schools with poor or nonexistent football programs that seem to otherwise be excellent schools; e.g. the Ivy League.

Or don't they count?

Wendy P.

Right, who'd want to hire an MIT graduate?

Another MIT alum..... Read my post, and you will note I posted football/Alum.
Another Kallend misconception.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Try taking a UCLA-Berkley diploma to the state of Ga. and see if you get hired over a UG or a GT alum. Not..!!

I'm sure there are hundreds of examples each year when GA residents return home. Of course if the person can't even spell their school correctly (Berkeley), then I'd pass on hiring them as well.

[BoogeyMan 0]

good point.... lots of others missed that too.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The bulk of that prestige is derived from the football team. Walk to any campus. By far, the premiere structure on the grounds is the football stadium.

If this were the case, there would only be a couple dozen prestigious schools. But that's hardly the case. For many schools (particularly Florida and the SEC) the football team is the only thing the school has going for it, but the end result isn't exactly prestige.

If there is an on campus stadium at a Div I school, of course it's the most prominent structure. How many buildings does a school need to seat 50-100k people along with a 360ft long field in the middle? One.

[BoogeyMan 0]

"For many schools (particularly Florida and the SEC) the football team is the only thing the school has going for it, but the end result isn't exactly prestige."

Good luck to you, sir............

[kelpdiver 2]

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Access to a good education has a lot to do with it too. There is a huge amount of data showing that education correlates with success. Yet we continue to deprive whole segments of our society from a decent education.

and yet, as the original posting notes, Asian students are overrepresented in awards. (though the citation is a bit inaccurate in thinking that Asians are a minority in the Bay Area).

Most Asians immigrated into the country without wealth or even full English speaking skills and had to fight through that indecent education offering you refer to. It's not as easy as the best public schools, but for either you still have to try. When we have a near 30% dropout rate in the high schools (statewide, it's a much more appalling figure in some inner city schools), of course the outcome is going to be poor.

[kallend 1,623]

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Your football analogy seems to leave out schools with poor or nonexistent football programs that seem to otherwise be excellent schools; e.g. the Ivy League.

Or don't they count?

Wendy P.

Right, who'd want to hire an MIT graduate?

Another MIT alum..... Read my post, and you will note I posted football/Alum.
Another Kallend misconception.

A boogeyman misconception that I was replying to him. Please pay attention.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BoogeyMan 0]

LOL....... Puh-leeze, Dr. You are not a FNG to SC.

[pirana 0]

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As an aside, my wife and I are coming to the conclusion that there is nothing that can hold a person back as much as being the child of a teenage mother. Want to make it more probable that your kid will end up in prison or a group home? Have the kid as a teenager and try to raise the kid yourself.

There are some appalling stats on that somewhere. The probabilities for a whole bunch of nasty things go way way up for kids from single parent homes. And most of them are not just a little more likely, say 20 or 30%, but more in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 times more likely.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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And because of this some do better and some do worse

And this can NOT be changed. It is an absolute rule of life

And this brings us back to the parents.

I agree that parents are a big factor, possibly the biggest. But there will always be variation in parents too. To expect they will be homogenous, or even that we'd want them to be is unrealistic. That being said, there does need to be a certain minimal contribution - and I'm not sure what to do about parents that don't execute.

But there is a much better way to address the challenges caused by all the variations, which focuses on the kid's needs - because that is really what matters to society as a whole. (Better and more efffective anyway than trying to punish parent's directly or their kids in the long term0.

Stop trying to fit every child into the same mold. I'm sure many educators will scream about that accusation; but at the most fundamental level, that being how they are grouped - kids are slotted into classrooms like pigeons in a coop.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rushmc 18]

Stop trying to fit every child into the same mold. I'm sure many educators will scream about that accusation; but at the most fundamental level, that being how they are grouped - kids are slotted into classrooms like pigeons in a coop.

[DanG 1]

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And by allowing to teach I mean, do NOT make them take on the social issues that is none of the schools or educators busines to begin with!!!

Example? Sex Ed

Sex ed should be taught in biology cless, just like the function of other body parts are taught in biology class. The genitals are not evil. Deciding not to teach kids about their parts is taking on a social issue, not the other way around.

- Dan G

[StreetScooby 5]

It's pretty amazing how threads flow in SC. This thread started talking about how alot of economic disparities can be attributed to work ethic, and is now talking about children's genitals (in the context of education, of course).

We are all engines of karma

[rehmwa 2]

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And by allowing to teach I mean, do NOT make them take on the social issues that is none of the schools or educators busines to begin with!!!

Example? Sex Ed

Sex ed should be taught in biology cless, just like the function of other body parts are taught in biology class. The genitals are not evil. Deciding not to teach kids about their parts is taking on a social issue, not the other way around.

I suspect he's talking about birth control, sexuality, and social/political aspects of human sexuality, not just biology

So it seems you and rush then agree that it would be best to delete all the portions of a sex ed class that don't relate directly to anatomy and biological function?

and that does make sense to just restrict to biology and health the basic - here's how the parts work and here's how reproduction occurs - class dismissed

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,396]

>So it seems you and rush then agree that it would be best to delete all the portions
>of a sex ed class that don't relate directly to anatomy and biological function?

I'd actually be fine with that provided you included the health aspects (i.e. "you can get HIV unless you use protection.") Which when it comes right down to it is perhaps the most important thing you can learn when it comes to "sex education." But yes, the rest of the stuff - birth control (beyond the factual) sexuality, and social/political aspects of human sexuality - get rid of it.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I'd actually be fine with that provided you included the health aspects (i.e. "you can get HIV unless you use protection.")

I'd prefer they used actual facts (i.e. you can get HIV even if you use protection).

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[wmw999 2,120]

True dat. But maybe even complete facts, like the protection rates.

Of course, we're getting deep into what some people consider to be morality here, aren't we.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)