matthewcline 0 #51 January 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteJust all part of volunteering. On your side of the pond, maybe... I volunteer too, but not for organizations that think I should pay them to work for them without a salary. I think I'm part of the 99% that agrees with me. I see it all the time, Doctors who volunteer at Clinics, Lawyers, Sports "Icons" who teach at Clinics (not he pay to attend type) and numerous laborers too. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #52 January 4, 2012 Quote Not idiots, just sneaky and underhanded. Check this out: -State requires volunteer fire fighters to pay for certificates. -Volunteers say "why should I pay to volunteer?" and quit. -State says "we have a lapse in fire fighter coverage, we need to hire more full time fire fighters to unsure our communities are safe." -State now has full time fire fighters paying there union dues. -Union dues funneled back to state democrats. Cycle complete. Keep in mind we're talking about idiots here... You forgot a couple of steps. Where does it fit in where somebody's pockets get lined...politicians or union leaders, for example.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #53 January 4, 2012 QuoteYou forgot a couple of steps. Where does it fit in where somebody's pockets get lined...politicians or union leaders, for example. higher taxes, higher dues - that's pretty much just an increase to the constant pocket lining that's always running ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #54 January 4, 2012 Your examples show people donating their time, not people paying to donate their time. Or I must be missing something..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #55 January 4, 2012 Quoteok, 150$ on the article, 200$ on the radio, either way its charging someone money to perform a service that could get them injured/killed and doesnt pay them a dime. Devil's advocate mode, as I'm unaware of the details on this issue, but don't people also pay for first aid/CPR certifications? How is this different? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #56 January 4, 2012 QuoteYour examples show people donating their time, not people paying to donate their time. Or I must be missing something..... They have to maintain their certifications to work (State and Fed Board, Industry etc). They also volunteer, the entity they volunteer for doesn't pay for their Cert's. Until the "Sue Happy" attitude, and the Budget attitude, is changed this is a step many cities may have to take. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #57 January 4, 2012 Mnealtx brought data, you have brought opinions and insults. I lived in TX under Perry and my house went UP in value during this crash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #58 January 4, 2012 Rick Perry called, he'd like to be reminded which three government agencies he's adamant about eliminating. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #59 January 4, 2012 Out of their own pocket seems unfair if they are truly volunteer and collect no pay. But in our area, the volunteer departments charge for their services. If they respond to your emergency - you get a bill. I paid $200 to have a couple fireman roll the fridge away from the wall and tell my wife the burning smell was the burned out fridge motor. Take those fees and pay for certifications. If they are paid firefighters, man up like every other professional and pay your own licensing fees." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #60 January 4, 2012 QuoteDevil's advocate mode, as I'm unaware of the details on this issue, but don't people also pay for first aid/CPR certifications? How is this different? Good one, I don't think there is much difference, however, I think free FA/CPR courses would be a very good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #61 January 4, 2012 >however, I think free FA/CPR courses would be a very good thing. Agreed. Perhaps get some people to volunteer to teach a few at your DZ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #62 January 4, 2012 But they need those certifications anyway, right, for their regular (paid) jobs, I mean? Or do they need those certifications specifically for the volunteering? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #63 January 4, 2012 QuoteBut they need those certifications anyway, right, for their regular (paid) jobs, I mean? Or do they need those certifications specifically for the volunteering? True. But, if one has the state compensate them with a cert, are they really volunteering any more? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #64 January 4, 2012 I would, but it's probably illegal here to teach first aid/CPR without following the proper courses. It also isn't common to teach FA/CPR on a (in my case still rather hypothetical) DZ, I think. I've had a very decent FA/CPR course (and then some more) but that alone doesn't qualify you to teach it yourself. And of course, I'm commie enough to expect my government to pay for it, because after all, I pay shit-loads of money to them, So I might as well expect something in return.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #65 January 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteBut they need those certifications anyway, right, for their regular (paid) jobs, I mean? Or do they need those certifications specifically for the volunteering? True. But, if one has the state compensate them with a cert, are they really volunteering any more? No more than if volunteers at a soup kitchen use soup provided by someone else. The certification is infrastructure for the work being done, not compensation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #66 January 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteBut they need those certifications anyway, right, for their regular (paid) jobs, I mean? Or do they need those certifications specifically for the volunteering? True. But, if one has the state compensate them with a cert, are they really volunteering any more? No more than if volunteers at a soup kitchen use soup provided by someone else. The certification is infrastructure for the work being done, not compensation. I am just saying they are not being told to pay to volunteer, but to have a certification, they can volunteer in other ways. Some though, will take the certification and experience (defined by some as compensation) and get a full time job (Good for them). Bottom line the State is looking at saving money by not spending it on the volunteer certifications. It may not work in the end. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #67 January 4, 2012 QuoteOut of their own pocket seems unfair if they are truly volunteer and collect no pay. But in our area, the volunteer departments charge for their services. If they respond to your emergency - you get a bill. I paid $200 to have a couple fireman roll the fridge away from the wall and tell my wife the burning smell was the burned out fridge motor. Take those fees and pay for certifications. If they are paid firefighters, man up like every other professional and pay your own licensing fees. OK, THAT'S it!! based on your last few dozen posts I've read lately I'm changing my mind. PIRANA for Pres!! (Sorry Nightengale, you just haven't been around lately). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #68 January 4, 2012 QuoteOut of their own pocket seems unfair if they are truly volunteer and collect no pay. But in our area, the volunteer departments charge for their services. If they respond to your emergency - you get a bill. I paid $200 to have a couple fireman roll the fridge away from the wall and tell my wife the burning smell was the burned out fridge motor. Take those fees and pay for certifications. If they are paid firefighters, man up like every other professional and pay your own licensing fees. That's just it though, they are not. They are volunteers. They don't get a red cent. They are doing it for the good of the community. Now they are being asked to pay for the "privilege" of being on call to respond. Volunteers are the true epitome of what it is to serve your community. How do you think Politicians would respond if we asked them to pay for the right to serve?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #69 January 5, 2012 Devil's advocate mode, as I'm unaware of the details on this issue, but don't people also pay for first aid/CPR certifications? How is this different? Blues, Dave *** your unlikely to be called away from work in the middle of a shift to rush across town. your also very unlikely to die in the act of giving cpr. if both are done correctly one still remains risky. I see what your saying, but the difference is subtle. still comes down to charging them for their time that they give freely. its just another way our greedy state is trying to squeeze more blood outta the stone. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #70 January 5, 2012 Quote How do you think Politicians would respond if we asked them to pay for the right to serve? That's a straight line, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sacex250 0 #71 January 5, 2012 QuoteNow they are being asked to pay for the "privilege" of being on call to respond. That's not the case. The Health Department is simply charging an administrative fee for the issuance of medical certifications for EMTs and Paramedics. There's nothing unreasonable about that. This argument is as stupid as saying that volunteer firefighters shouldn't have to pay to renew their driver's licenses because they have to drive the fire engine. This has nothing to do with the cost of training, just the administrative fee for the state certification. 1) Submit training completion certificate 2) Pay fee 3) Take and pass State Certification Exam 4) Get State Certification Card It works that way when you get a driver's license, a PADI scuba diving certification, a USPA skydiving license, or a marriage license. As it is, firefighters get more free training than anyone else, and all they're being asked to do along with everyone else, is pay a fee to the Health Department who oversees the advanced life support system of the EMS system in the state. The Red Cross charges $90 for the average citizen just to get a CPR card, yearly! That's $270 dollars every three years. The maximum fees being discussed here is $125 every three years which no doubt only applies to paramedics, EMT's will certainly be charged less. This is just a bunch of firefighters who are trying to get out of paying a fee for their certifications because they think they're special.It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #72 January 5, 2012 Quote It works that way when you get a driver's license, a PADI scuba diving certification, a USPA skydiving license, or a marriage license. But none of these are additional expenses in order to perform volunteer work. The only one here that might be such an example is if you needed to get a class A license to drive the fire truck rather than the class C (California designations) used for personal cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #73 January 5, 2012 QuoteQuote It works that way when you get a driver's license, a PADI scuba diving certification, a USPA skydiving license, or a marriage license. But none of these are additional expenses in order to perform volunteer work. The only one here that might be such an example is if you needed to get a class A license to drive the fire truck rather than the class C (California designations) used for personal cars. really? We've done lake cleanup activities, I've had a friend do some explore and rescue work in lakes - So should all our PADI expenses should be paid by the taxpayer? Volunteering means you have a skill set you are offering to the community. Obtaining that skill set is your business and expense. Not necessarily the taxpayers'. each local government should be able to decide on their own if they CHOOSE to pay or not. When times are tough, then it seems like cutting as many expenses as possible is a good thing - teaches the officials to prioritize what they want to spend it on. Edit like Billvon's response - IF the community wants to pay, then find the funds by cutting something else. If the citizens don't like it, no one stops them from conducting a fundraiser, either. People are lazy - no one does fundraisors any more for these things - the default action is to bitch about it and try to force the government to do it for them. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sacex250 0 #74 January 5, 2012 QuoteQuote It works that way when you get a driver's license, a PADI scuba diving certification, a USPA skydiving license, or a marriage license. But none of these are additional expenses in order to perform volunteer work. The only one here that might be such an example is if you needed to get a class A license to drive the fire truck rather than the class C (California designations) used for personal cars. Name any other State certification that you can get for FREE! Should the state also pay for the commercial medical exams that are needed to drive ambulances? As is needed in California every two years.It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #75 January 5, 2012 QuoteHow do you think Politicians would respond if we asked them to pay for the right to serve? OK, is that a joke? They do pay for it, millions. I think Dayton ended up spending a big chunk of the family's fortune by the time he bought his seat in MM - something along the tune of $40 million. I'm talking his money - in addition to what was raised. (Don't you wonder why someone would do that?) I'm guessing for most seats at the state level, and all seats at the national level; if you offerred the seat for $5 million they'd end up spending a lot less than on a campaign. But I digress, and I agreed with you - volunteers should have their licenses paid for (out of charges collected from calls)." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
