Kennedy 0 #101 December 28, 2011 QuoteQuotethat's a strange request. You want proof of damage to what leaked classified material has caused. No common sense bells ringing here? Why would the Govt tell anyone about classified damage caused by leaked classified material? Why in the world would one think that any of this be unclassified. umm, I don't know, maybe I'm just a citizen that wants government accountability and transparency and NOT some group of blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones letting them do whatever they want whenever they want....? Including the military. duh? So you want the government to do away with the concept of classified? Should we shut down secret alphabet soup agencies to satisfy your "accountability and transparency" desires? I doubt that's what you want, but that is what you're saying. So add a little detail in there, TK. Tell us about how you'd draw the line, what guiding principles you'd use. Or I can start calling you names and talking about blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones who all KNOW the government is wrong, whatever it does unless that includes taking from anyone with more than them.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #102 December 28, 2011 >I don't know, maybe I'm just a citizen that wants government accountability and >transparency and NOT some group of blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones letting >them do whatever they want whenever they want....? Including the military. Would you have wanted some leaker to tell the world news the details of the invasion we planned on June 6, 1944? Say, two weeks before it happened? To keep the government accountable and transparent? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #103 December 28, 2011 You and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #104 December 28, 2011 Quote>I don't know, maybe I'm just a citizen that wants government accountability and >transparency and NOT some group of blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones letting >them do whatever they want whenever they want....? Including the military. Would you have wanted some leaker to tell the world news the details of the invasion we planned on June 6, 1944? Say, two weeks before it happened? To keep the government accountable and transparent? um ... actually - that's what we did-ish (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #105 December 28, 2011 QuoteYou and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck In the military, and intell communities that is called "need to know". As long as the ultimate goal remains to keep US safe, and kill enemies of the US, then I say have at it. The US sure as hell can't depend on any other nation to carry the ball. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #106 December 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteWould you have wanted some leaker to tell the world news the details of the invasion we planned on June 6, 1944? Say, two weeks before it happened? To keep the government accountable and transparent? um ... actually - that's what we did-ish Not really. There were several leaks through security failure/stupidity, but if you're thinking of fortitude, that wasn't a leak, that was intentional misdirection. Quote from Wiki Planning of the invasionAllied forces rehearsed their roles for D-Day months before the invasion. On 28 April 1944, in south Devon on the English coast, 638 U.S. soldiers and sailors were killed when German torpedo boats surprised one of these landing exercises, Exercise Tiger.[7] In the months leading up to the invasion, the allied forces conducted a deception operation, Operation Fortitude aimed at misleading the Germans regarding the date and place of the invasion. There were several leaks prior to or on D-Day. One such leak was the crossword that came out in The Herald and Review six days before the beach landings were to take place. Some of the answers consisted of Overlord, Neptune, Gold and other key terms to the invasions; the US government later declared that this was just a coincidence. Through the Cicero affair, the Germans obtained documents containing references to Overlord, but these documents lacked all detail.[8] Double Cross agents, such as Joan Pujol (code named Garbo), played an important role in convincing the German High Command that Normandy was at best a diversionary attack. U.S. Major General Henry Miller, chief supply officer of the US 9th Air Force, during a party at Claridge's Hotel in London complained to guests of the supply problems he was having but that after the invasion, which he told them would be before 15 June supply would be easier. After being told, Eisenhower reduced Miller to Colonel and sent him back to the U.S. where he subsequently retired.[citation needed] Another such leak was Gen. Charles de Gaulle's radio message after D-Day. He, unlike all the other leaders, stated that this invasion was the real invasion. This had the potential to ruin the Allied deceptions Fortitude North and Fortitude South. For example, Gen. Eisenhower referred to the landings as the initial invasion.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #107 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote You and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck In the military, and intell communities that is called "need to know". As long as the ultimate goal remains to keep US safe, and kill enemies of the US, then I say have at it. The US sure as hell can't depend on any other nation to carry the ball. I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #108 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote You and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck In the military, and intell communities that is called "need to know". As long as the ultimate goal remains to keep US safe, and kill enemies of the US, then I say have at it. The US sure as hell can't depend on any other nation to carry the ball. I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" Chuck EXACTLY RIGHT....! 99% of people couldn't understand G2 reports if they fell from the sky, landed on their faces and started to wiggle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #109 December 28, 2011 hence the '-ish' (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #110 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote You and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck In the military, and intell communities that is called "need to know". As long as the ultimate goal remains to keep US safe, and kill enemies of the US, then I say have at it. The US sure as hell can't depend on any other nation to carry the ball. I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" Chuck EXACTLY RIGHT....! 99% of people couldn't understand G2 reports if they fell from the sky, landed on their faces and started to wiggle. To me, anyone wanting to have that kind of information at their disposal, totally lacks common sense. It's just nuts! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #111 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote You and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck In the military, and intell communities that is called "need to know". As long as the ultimate goal remains to keep US safe, and kill enemies of the US, then I say have at it. The US sure as hell can't depend on any other nation to carry the ball. I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" Chuck EXACTLY RIGHT....! 99% of people couldn't understand G2 reports if they fell from the sky, landed on their faces and started to wiggle. To me, anyone wanting to have that kind of information at their disposal, totally lacks common sense. It's just nuts! Chuck Very true.... Knowing what one's government is up to is fine. To be an educated voter is every citizens duty. What does the average person want a 100 page Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) for? A coffee table book? No "need to know"............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #112 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote You and Kennedy beat me to those questions. Something I'd like to know too is... What are hayes, dreamdancer and all the others who just have to see all our 'secrets' laid-out for the world to see, going to do with the information? I guess, they just cannot see what the end result would be. Never will either. Chuck In the military, and intell communities that is called "need to know". As long as the ultimate goal remains to keep US safe, and kill enemies of the US, then I say have at it. The US sure as hell can't depend on any other nation to carry the ball. I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" Chuck EXACTLY RIGHT....! 99% of people couldn't understand G2 reports if they fell from the sky, landed on their faces and started to wiggle. To me, anyone wanting to have that kind of information at their disposal, totally lacks common sense. It's just nuts! Chuck Very true.... Knowing what one's government is up to is fine. To be an educated voter is every citizens duty. What does the average person want a 100 page Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) for. A coffee table book? No "need to know"............. You're right... they wouldn't understand it. Just more arrogance. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #113 December 28, 2011 Quoteell us about how you'd draw the line Which seems to be all this discussion is about. Not whether there is a line or should be a line, but where to draw it. I myself am in favor of drawing different lines for different people. If you’re an intelligence analyst, it is in your job description to shut the fuck up unless asked by the chain of command. Some hacker getting into sensitive information? Let the bastard go. But somebody gets a hold of documents though a FOIA request? Or some reporter acting on some tip, leak or trial balloon? Put it out. Different lines in different places by different people about different things My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #114 December 28, 2011 Quote I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" I recall the movie “Spies Like Us” where Millbarge is on the phone with Ruby angrily asking for information. Ruby said: “We give out information on a need to know basis, and at this point in time you do not need to know.” My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #115 December 28, 2011 Quote>I don't know, maybe I'm just a citizen that wants government accountability and >transparency and NOT some group of blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones letting >them do whatever they want whenever they want....? Including the military. Would you have wanted some leaker to tell the world news the details of the invasion we planned on June 6, 1944? Say, two weeks before it happened? To keep the government accountable and transparent? how about if a leaker had told the world news the details of the planned pearl harbour attack? for the greater good...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #116 December 28, 2011 They would have shot him dead on the spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #117 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote I can't for the life of me recall the movie but a young officer tells an Intel Chief that he was 'on a need to know basis!' the Chief responded with; "You don't need to know SHIT!" I recall the movie “Spies Like Us” where Millbarge is on the phone with Ruby angrily asking for information. Ruby said: “We give out information on a need to know basis, and at this point in time you do not need to know.” I think, that could've been it. Thanks! At my age, I can't rely on memory.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #118 December 28, 2011 Quote Quote >I don't know, maybe I'm just a citizen that wants government accountability and >transparency and NOT some group of blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones letting >them do whatever they want whenever they want....? Including the military. Would you have wanted some leaker to tell the world news the details of the invasion we planned on June 6, 1944? Say, two weeks before it happened? To keep the government accountable and transparent? how about if a leaker had told the world news the details of the planned pearl harbour attack? for the greater good... IF? If, the dog hadn't stopped to take a crap... he'dve caught the rabbit too!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #119 December 28, 2011 QuoteThey would have shot him dead on the spot. but no war with japan. so millions of lives saved...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #120 December 28, 2011 QuoteThey would have shot him dead on the spot. That's the difference that some of these folks don't "get". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #121 December 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteThey would have shot him dead on the spot. That's the difference that some of these folks don't "get". he might have been dead but millions of lives would have been saved...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #122 December 28, 2011 Quote They would have shot him dead on the spot. We would have still gone to war with Japan. In the long run, they won! toyota, Nikon, Mitsubishi, Nissan... Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #123 December 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteThey would have shot him dead on the spot. We would have still gone to war with Japan. without pearl harbour?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #124 December 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey would have shot him dead on the spot. That's the difference that some of these folks don't "get". he might have been dead but millions of lives would have been saved... You can 'what if', till you're blue in the face but that does NOT change history... you can't do it. The Japanese wanted full control of the Pacific. They were trying everything they had. War is war and sadly, lives get lost. That's the price ya' pay. stir,stir,stir... Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #125 December 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThey would have shot him dead on the spot. That's the difference that some of these folks don't "get". he might have been dead but millions of lives would have been saved... You can 'what if', till you're blue in the face but that does NOT change history... you can't do it. The Japanese wanted full control of the Pacific. They were trying everything they had. War is war and sadly, lives get lost. That's the price ya' pay. stir,stir,stir... Chuck and you can 'what if' about any damage done to the us by manning and wikileaks. so far none has been shown. but lives were definitely saved...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
