Bradley Manning Hearing Ends with No Clear Sign of Harm Done to US

[dreamdancer 0]

i refer you to the title of the thread...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[jakee 1,254]

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and because of manning we know that the us military routinely handed over suspects for torture...




Golly.......! It be a revelation here on DZ.com how DD has access to all of the inside knowledge he has.

US 'special rendition' isn't inside knowledge. Nothing in wikileaks is inside knowledge anymore. It was in wikileaks

(Although DD is slightly off base - we knew about rendition flights already - because of Manning we know that the US used allies' airbases for their rendition flights, sometimes in violation of those allies' laws, without telling those allies.)

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Not to EVEN mention cattle ranching in Dartmoor swamp.

There's a thread about that?

Dartmoor cows are awesome, although it can be slightly scary when they're in the middle of the road and you're going past at 50mph on a bike. One wrong turn of their heads and it's cyclist kebab.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BoogeyMan 0]

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and because of manning we know that the us military routinely handed over suspects for torture...




Golly.......! It be a revelation here on DZ.com how DD has access to all of the inside knowledge he has.

US 'special rendition' isn't inside knowledge. Nothing in wikileaks is inside knowledge anymore. It was in wikileaks

(Although DD is slightly off base - we knew about rendition flights already - because of Manning we know that the US used allies' airbases for their rendition flights, sometimes in violation of those allies' laws, without telling those allies.)

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Not to EVEN mention cattle ranching in Dartmoor swamp.

There's a thread about that?

Dartmoor cows are awesome, although it can be slightly scary when they're in the middle of the road and you're going past at 50mph on a bike. One wrong turn of their heads and it's cyclist kebab.

Please expand on the US violations of Allies laws and any filings to the World Court or NATO or the UN by any government of such violations.
You are, of course, aware of the intricacy of Diplomatic Immunity, the Status of Forces Agreement, The Geneva Convention, International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions and so forth, some dating back to the end of WW2. Naturally.
You also are a cattle rancher in Dartmoor swamp? Amazing. DD has never answered any Qs about his Vaquero days back in Dartmoor.

[BoogeyMan 0]

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i refer you to the title of the thread...

What for? You rarely have anything to contribute about your own postings. I was commenting on your contributions to the welfare of the world. Who knows, with your universal grasp of EVERYTHING perhaps the Mossad may offer you a position.
And scholars have argued about whether Aristotle or Socrates was the greatest universal genius. The idlers.

[dreamdancer 0]

perhaps you should start a thread about me...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[BoogeyMan 0]

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perhaps you should start a thread about me...

HAH......!! Perhaps you should re-read the many posts of so many folks simply asking you questions about your posts, and never get a response. You deflect or dissemble to unrelated gibberish, usually.
BTW.... Is there an error on your profile? Thailand, or is it Moscow, Bejing, or Pyongyang? There is a question, as you seem blind to the Syrians killing thousands in the streets, yet post nothing, while focusing endlessly on the USA. You're better than that, aren't you? Sure you are.

[jakee 1,254]

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You are, of course, aware of the intricacy of Diplomatic Immunity

How would that have an impact?

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the Status of Forces Agreement,

How would that have an impact?

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The Geneva Convention,

How would that have an impact?

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International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions

How would that have an impact?

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You also are a cattle rancher in Dartmoor swamp? Amazing.

Of course not. Where on earth did you get that from?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BoogeyMan 0]

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You are, of course, aware of the intricacy of Diplomatic Immunity

How would that have an impact?

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the Status of Forces Agreement,

How would that have an impact?

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The Geneva Convention,

How would that have an impact?

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International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions

How would that have an impact?

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You also are a cattle rancher in Dartmoor swamp? Amazing.

Of course not. Where on earth did you get that from?

You mentioned rendition. I do apologize. From your post I misinterpreted that you actually knew something.

[jakee 1,254]

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You mentioned rendition. I do apologize. From your post I misinterpreted that you actually knew something.

And I do.

You mentioned Diplomatic Immunity, SOFA, the GC and International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions. From that I interpret that you know fuck all and are attempting to baffle with bullshit.

Which would tie in with the cattle farming.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BoogeyMan 0]

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You mentioned rendition. I do apologize. From your post I misinterpreted that you actually knew something.

And I do.

You mentioned Diplomatic Immunity, SOFA, the GC and International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions. From that I interpret that you know fuck all and are attempting to baffle with bullshit.

Which would tie in with the cattle farming.

Sorry, your barnyard prattle eludes me. Does your gran know you're out annoying the adults?

[jakee 1,254]

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You mentioned rendition. I do apologize. From your post I misinterpreted that you actually knew something.

And I do.

You mentioned Diplomatic Immunity, SOFA, the GC and International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions. From that I interpret that you know fuck all and are attempting to baffle with bullshit.

Which would tie in with the cattle farming.

Sorry, your barnyard prattle eludes me.

Dartmoor animals are basically semi wild, minimum of farmyards required.

If we can tear you away from your cow fixation for a moment though, I'd love to hear how the Geneva Convention makes it ok to fly people to Egypt to be tortured, using the airbases of countries that have laws against flying people to Egypt (or anywhere, really) to be tortured.

I must have missed that paragraph.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BoogeyMan 0]

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You mentioned rendition. I do apologize. From your post I misinterpreted that you actually knew something.

And I do.

You mentioned Diplomatic Immunity, SOFA, the GC and International Conventions on Air Travel by Military Forces under NATO and / or with United Nations sanctions. From that I interpret that you know fuck all and are attempting to baffle with bullshit.

Which would tie in with the cattle farming.

Sorry, your barnyard prattle eludes me.

Dartmoor animals are basically semi wild, minimum of farmyards required.

If we can tear you away from your cow fixation for a moment though, I'd love to hear how the Geneva Convention makes it ok to fly people to Egypt to be tortured, using the airbases of countries that have laws against flying people to Egypt (or anywhere, really) to be tortured.

I must have missed that paragraph.

Firstly, you said that the US violated the laws of allied nations. Since none have filed a case against the US, you must be the bullshitter.
What another sovereign nation does, or does not do to terrorists is indeed up to the individual nation. The US delivers an Egyptian citizen to Egypt. Saudi's to Saudia Arabia. So what? Go cry to the Saudi's. Better yet, go there in person and pitch your bitch. See what that gets you.

[jakee 1,254]

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irstly, you said that the US violated the laws of allied nations. Since none have filed a case against the US, you must be the bullshitter.

You think international politics is that simple?

Dude. Seriously

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What another sovereign nation does, or does not do to terrorists and suspected terrorists who turn out to be completely innocent is indeed up to the individual nation.

Fixed it for you.

And what we do with them is up to us. And there are laws about torturing them, and to stop us from working arounf those laws there are laws about giving them to people who will torture them.

And if you could point to the bit of the Geneva Convention that overrides those laws I would be everso grateful

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BoogeyMan 0]

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irstly, you said that the US violated the laws of allied nations. Since none have filed a case against the US, you must be the bullshitter.

You think international politics is that simple?

Dude. Seriously

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What another sovereign nation does, or does not do to terrorists and suspected terrorists who turn out to be completely innocent is indeed up to the individual nation.

Fixed it for you.

And what we do with them is up to us. And there are laws about torturing them, and to stop us from working arounf those laws there are laws about giving them to people who will torture them.

And if you could point to the bit of the Geneva Convention that overrides those laws I would be everso grateful

The GC has sections dealing with the treatment of prisoners and other combatants, and noncombatants. Read it.
You still haven't answered about which nations laws have been violated by the US. And if so, which nations have filed in the WC at the Hague?
How about the laws of the US being violated by Bradley Manning?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Ok. So if anyone ever steals from you we can just ignore it because you weren't physically harmed.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,395]

Both of you - cut it out.

[lawrocket 3]

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so you're all for the individual against the power of the state - until you're not. strange contradiction...

I am all for individual rights. I am all for freedom of press, information and freedom of association. I am for the right to free speech. I am for the right to petition for grievance. I am against unreasonable searches and seizures. I'm against some REASONABLE searches and seizures.

And yet, I joined the military. Here's the difference: I did it myself and willingly. I did it knowing that I was waiving the aforementioned rights. I did it with full knowledge.

I am against a draft. But I signed up willingly. It can be narrowed down to being in favor in individual choices. If a person chooses not to submit to the color of authority as I did, I applaud that person. If a person chooses to go in to the military and waive all of those rights, I applaud that person, too.

Just because I was in the military doesn't mean I think everybody should do it. I don't think everybody should waive their First Amendment rights just because I waived mine. In fact, even at the time, I had problems with government performing searches and seizures on others even though it would have been perfectly fine had they done it to me.

Taking a look at Bradley Manning, had he been just a John Q Public citizen then, indeed, there could be some arguments there in his favor. But since he enlisted he knowingly waived many of these rights, privileges and immunities. He willingly chose to operate under a different set of rules. In doing so, he obtained access to information that he would not otherwise have accessed. He made promises. He violated those promises. But he certainly knew the rules of the game going in.

I find Manning to be no great villain – not when compared to the assholes out there murdering people. Note that the military is dealing rather harshly with them. But Manning also broke rules and laws. He violated the trust given to him.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,254]

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The GC has sections dealing with the treatment of prisoners and other combatants, and noncombatants.

It does. But since it requires an Orwellian (Rovian?) reading to think it permits torture at all, I would absolutely love to see the section that you think requires a nation to co-operate with torture in violation of their own laws.

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You still haven't answered about which nations laws have been violated by the US.

Well, the Italians did convict over 20 CIA agents. That's probably a clue.

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How about the laws of the US being violated by Bradley Manning?

How about them? He broke them, he's on trial, he'll probably be convicted.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Manning did real damage - there's really no doubt about that.

Actually the whole point of the thread was that he did NO damage. And here we go again - he's a traitor, he let out secrets, he's a treasonist, people got harmed, whatever.

So far NO ONE, not anyone, has put forth once ounce of harm done by Bradley Manning

you can repeat that over and over again - maybe you'll eventually even believe it. But it's provably false.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak

If he had released selected documents like the helicopter video, then maybe you have a case to make that he was being a patriot and revealing illegal or improper actions. But when he dumped out a quarter million private documents on diplomatic action, no, he was just taking a shit on our country. This is an attention whore, not a patriot.

Like I said, it's easier to argue that he did not get aid to the enemy then to claim he didn't release secret information. And sorry, you can't successfully argue that it didn't cause damage.

[masterrig 1]

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Manning did real damage - there's really no doubt about that.

Actually the whole point of the thread was that he did NO damage. And here we go again - he's a traitor, he let out secrets, he's a treasonist, people got harmed, whatever.

So far NO ONE, not anyone, has put forth once ounce of harm done by Bradley Manning

you can repeat that over and over again - maybe you'll eventually even believe it. But it's provably false.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak

If he had released selected documents like the helicopter video, then maybe you have a case to make that he was being a patriot and revealing illegal or improper actions. But when he dumped out a quarter million private documents on diplomatic action, no, he was just taking a shit on our country. This is an attention whore, not a patriot.

Like I said, it's easier to argue that he did not get aid to the enemy then to claim he didn't release secret information. And sorry, you can't successfully argue that it didn't cause damage.

From quotes I've read from Manning, in e-mails to a 'friend', he obviously had 'second thoughts' about releasing the information he did in fact release. Manning knew better!!! He chose to release them, knowing he would gain attention. The guy was (is) depressed. As I've posted earlier, his relations with his family, the Army and his boyfriend were in the crapper. As you stated, he flat-out shit on his country and everything else in his life. All for the attention it would get him. It's that old saying; 'If, you're gonna play, you gotta pay.' He brought all this on himself. The sad part is, he knew better!


Chuck

[tkhayes 125]

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But when he dumped out a quarter million private documents on diplomatic action, no, he was just taking a shit on our country. This is an attention whore, not a patriot.

this is not 'damage' nor does the link you posted describe any.

so I'm still waiting.....

[Andy9o8 0]

Look, I'm no fan of what they're doing to Assange over this (and you know the general tenor of my posting history); but from a standpoint of criminal law, whether/how much damage resulted from Manning's actions is far more a sentencing issue than it is a guilt-or-innocence issue. At least that's how I would view it if I was a neutral, impartial judge presiding over the criminal case.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But when he dumped out a quarter million private documents on diplomatic action, no, he was just taking a shit on our country. This is an attention whore, not a patriot.

this is not 'damage' nor does the link you posted describe any.

so I'm still waiting.....

I can't feed the blind. Or more accurately, I choose not to.

[nanook 1]

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this is not 'damage' nor does the link you posted describe any.

so I'm still waiting.....

that's a strange request. You want proof of damage to what leaked classified material has caused. No common sense bells ringing here? Why would the Govt tell anyone about classified damage caused by leaked classified material? Why in the world would one think that any of this be unclassified.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 125]

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that's a strange request. You want proof of damage to what leaked classified material has caused. No common sense bells ringing here? Why would the Govt tell anyone about classified damage caused by leaked classified material? Why in the world would one think that any of this be unclassified.

umm, I don't know, maybe I'm just a citizen that wants government accountability and transparency and NOT some group of blind-faith, purple-koolaid-drinking drones letting them do whatever they want whenever they want....? Including the military.

duh?