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dreamdancer

Does the U.S. Have the World's Best Health Care System? Yes, If You're Talking About the Third World

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Actually i it is a lot better in the third world....

Dentist (US-trained), Dominican Republic, white filling, front tooth, $25.63 (typically $200+ in the US);

Dentist (US-trained), Dominican Republic, Cleaning and Diagnosis, $30 (typically $200+ in the US):

CT Pelvis, Abdomen; $6,000+ in the US w/ insurance!; $0 in Austria w/ insurance, reimbursable at $25 (!) per scan to US providers.


The US health care system is just a gigantic scheme. Million dollars salaries for CEOs, hundred of thousands for MDs, and no affordable health care options for the 99%!!!





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interesting...

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Last week, the 34-nation Organization for Economic Cooperation (OECD) released the results of its most recent study of the health care systems in its member countries, including the U.S., plus six others, for a total of 40. And those results are illuminating.

If Boehner and his fellow Republicans had characterized the U.S. system as the most expensive in the world, they would have been right on target. But they would have been way off base by calling it the best.

The OECD report is just the most recent evidence that Americans are not getting nearly as much bang for the health care buck as citizens of most other developed countries -- and even some countries in the developing world.

The OECD found that the United States spends two-and-a-half times more on health care per person than the OECD average. The U.S. even spends more than twice as much as France, which many experts contend has one of the best health care systems on the planet.

The average expenditure per person in the U.S. is $7,960, a third more than in Norway, the second highest. The OECD average, by comparison, is just $3,233. (It is $3,873 in France.)

Here are some reasons why: Hospital spending is 60 percent higher than the average of five other relatively expensive countries (Switzerland, Canada, Germany, France and Japan); spending on pharmaceuticals and medical goods is much higher here than any of the other countries; and administrative costs are more than two-and-a-half times the average of the others.



http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/29-6



And no real recourse for Malpractice when one of those Banana Republic Docs fuck up.

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Well, there are no bananas in Austria!
Not even kangaroos!! DIMWIT!!!

And your kind (malpractice lawyers), are the worst of the bunch! Really bringing down all of society!

P.S.: Plus having been part of the health care systems of Germany, Austria, the Dominican Republic, and the US!! I have basis to form an opinion. DO YOU?


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And no real recourse for Malpractice when one of those Banana Republic Docs fuck up.

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Well, there are no bananas in Austria!
Not even kangaroos!! DIMWIT!!!

And your kind (malpractice lawyers), are the worst of the bunch! Really bringing down all of society!


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And no real recourse for Malpractice when one of those Banana Republic Docs fuck up.



Nice PA. I'm not a Malpractice Attorney.

And I was referring to the Dominican Republic Dentists.

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CT Pelvis, Abdomen; $6,000+ in the US w/ insurance!; $0 in Austria w/ insurance, reimbursable at $25 (!) per scan to US providers.



Hey. Um, did you read what I wrote earlier about Medicare reimbursement?

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/745835

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The US health care system is just a gigantic scheme. Million dollars salaries for CEOs, hundred of thousands for MDs



Here’s what Medicare is doing this year:

The following data is the technical reimbursement, or the cost of performing the scan by the institution or entity.

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CT Abdomen and Pelvis without contrast
2010 Fees: $408.46
2011 Fees: $226.88
A DECREASE OF $181.58
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with contrast
2010 Fees: $519.19
2011 Fees: $355.52
A DECREASE OF $163.67
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with & without contrast

2010 Fees: $639.25
2011 Fees: $450.06
A DECREASE OF $189.19
________________________________________
The following data is the professional
reimbursement, or what the radiologist/group receives for interpreting the study.
CT Abdomen and Pelvis without contrast
2010 Fees: $122.69
2011 Fees: $89.28
A DECREASE OF $33.41
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with contrast
2010 Fees: $130.93
2011 Fees: $93.42
A DECREASE OF $37.51
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with & without contrast
2010 Fees: $141.39
2011 Fees: $103.78
A DECREASE OF $37.61




Yeah. But insurance companies are evil. Yeah. Uh huh. Note: Medicare provides those “free” CT scans. Look at how much they cost. Government likes to reimburse health care providers very little. Hence, they break even by charging insurers and private payers more to cover it.

The above is the face of free health care. First, it isn’t free. Second, controlling costs mean someone gets banged. And it’s almost always the doctors who take it right up the wazoo.

I understand that facts are nowhere near as compelling as grand conspiracies and corporate cabals. But sweet Jesus, lay off the rhetoric for a while and examine the facts with an open mind.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Hello again, Dimwit!

Just enter Freddy Lepe, Puerto Plata on google.com. Plenty of information and feedback. I still prefer to pay $25 over $200 and rather forego the lawyer malpractice option!!!!

For more advanced treatment. You think that this is http://www.dentalcibao.com/ is third-world??





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Well, there are no bananas in Austria!
Not even kangaroos!! DIMWIT!!!

And your kind (malpractice lawyers), are the worst of the bunch! Really bringing down all of society!


Quote

Quote



And no real recourse for Malpractice when one of those Banana Republic Docs fuck up.



Nice PA. I'm not a Malpractice Attorney.

And I was referring to the Dominican Republic Dentists.

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LR, good for you that you qualify for Medicare! Supported by the 99% of us!!!'

I just know that my daughter, after a fall, needed to have a head CT at roughly $3,000 of which I had to pay $600 in cash (after insurance premiums!)

In Austria/ Germany/ the EU, I would have paid $0 out-of-pocket. Because the children are our future. And my daughter may have to wipe your ass in the future when you can't do it any longer yourself!!

Yeah, I know: "The Rich. How will we take of our Rich???? W/o our Rich we'll be left to fend for ourselves!!!!" Do you know how ridiculous you sound????

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Here’s what Medicare is doing this year:

The following data is the technical reimbursement, or the cost of performing the scan by the institution or entity.

Quote

CT Abdomen and Pelvis without contrast
2010 Fees: $408.46
2011 Fees: $226.88
A DECREASE OF $181.58
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with contrast
2010 Fees: $519.19
2011 Fees: $355.52
A DECREASE OF $163.67
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with & without contrast

2010 Fees: $639.25
2011 Fees: $450.06
A DECREASE OF $189.19
________________________________________
The following data is the professional
reimbursement, or what the radiologist/group receives for interpreting the study.
CT Abdomen and Pelvis without contrast
2010 Fees: $122.69
2011 Fees: $89.28
A DECREASE OF $33.41
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with contrast
2010 Fees: $130.93
2011 Fees: $93.42
A DECREASE OF $37.51
________________________________________
CT Abdomen and Pelvis with & without contrast
2010 Fees: $141.39
2011 Fees: $103.78
A DECREASE OF $37.61




Yeah. But insurance companies are evil. Yeah. Uh huh. Note: Medicare provides those “free” CT scans. Look at how much they cost. Government likes to reimburse health care providers very little. Hence, they break even by charging insurers and private payers more to cover it.

The above is the face of free health care. First, it isn’t free. Second, controlling costs mean someone gets banged. And it’s almost always the doctors who take it right up the wazoo.

I understand that facts are nowhere near as compelling as grand conspiracies and corporate cabals. But sweet Jesus, lay off the rhetoric for a while and examine the facts with an open mind.

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To be blunt (and this is not a PA, just the truth): I don't know your daughter, and therefore do not care what happens to her, or if she survives to adulthood.

Why should my pocket be picked for her care? You bred her--you pay for her keep. She is not my concern.

Now, if you are part of my health insurance plan, I have chosen to pay into that pool--a voluntary action on my part.

You just want more free shit at others' expense. Leech.

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I AM a malpractice attorney. I cut my teeth as a lawyer defending them. Now I represent plaintiffs. I’m married to a physician. And let me tell you, doctors are often sued without valid reason.

On the other hand, there are circumstances when a doctor fucks up. I’ve got four cases right now dealing with doctors who left towels or surgical instruments inside of a patient. Imagine having a length of your bowel removed because after you reported to the emergency room with complaints of vomiting shit they found out that a towel was left in your intestines, causing a blockage, necrosis and bursting. Or the dentist who didn’t bother to check the x-rays he was taking for a year and a half when a girl’s teeth kept falling out. The jaw reconstruction after the jaw tumor was removed at least restored some function to the girl, though she is permanently disfigured.

And even while defending them there were times when there was no valid defense to a doctor who fucked up. The doctor who let a patient die because he thought he was homeless and wouldn’t be able to monitor his INR, so gave no Coumadin – even in the hospital. No – I had ZERO problem with the guy who sued that doctor. And that doctor lost his license because he said he’d do the same thing again. No, I don’t want that doctor treating me or my kids.

A doctor can kill someone and not do anything wrong. I know that. But when a doctor does something wrong it can be devastating. I’ve got a client who had her common bile duct cut during a surgery. Cardinal sin No. 1 of abdominal surgery is transecting the bile duct. It’s sin for a reason.

Call me the worst of the bunch.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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LR, good for you that you qualify for Medicare! Supported by the 99% of us!!!'



I don’t. Hell, it won’t be there when I reach the age to qualify for it. We cannot afford the $100 trillion under funding it has over the next 70 years.

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I just know that my daughter, after a fall, needed to have a head CT at roughly $3,000 of which I had to pay $600 in cash (after insurance premiums!)



Good. And think of how much less it would have cost had those people getting it for free paid for it.

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In Austria/ Germany/ the EU, I would have paid $0 out-of-pocket.



“Out-of-pocket” is a pretty important qualification. I’ve paid tens of thousands of dollars for medical procedures I’ve never had because I’m paying for others to receive them. Isn’t it swell? I didn’t pay out of pocket. Nope. I paid “out of paycheck” for those medical procedures.

Of course, I also pay “out-of-pocket” for other peoples’ procedures because mine are marked up to cover for the losses caused by others not paying out-of-pocket because I paid for that procedure out-of-paycheck.

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Because the children are our future. And my daughter may have to wipe your ass in the future when you can't do it any longer yourself!!



Nope. I’ve planned on making sure that I take care of me. I’m pissed off enough about taking care of everyone else. I don’t like the thought of others carrying my ass or wiping it.

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Yeah, I know: "The Rich. How will we take of our Rich???? W/o our Rich we'll be left to fend for ourselves!!!!" Do you know how ridiculous you sound????



Maybe it’s you or maybe it’s me, but I have no idea what the hell you are writing about or where this came from….

I've never discussed taking care of the rich. I've strongly advocated for taking care of oneself and one's family.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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And you are not my concern!
And for that reason I resent every tax dollar that I pay for your upkeep. Makes sense??? NO!!!

If you are in the US, you are my brother. I might disagree w/ you on fundamentally everything, but I will not allow you be homeless, or die from hunger, or the lack of healthcare!

That's what it means to be American!! Proof me wrong!



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To be blunt (and this is not a PA, just the truth): I don't know your daughter, and therefore do not care what happens to her, or if she survives to adulthood.

Why should my pocket be picked for her care? You bred her--you pay for her keep. She is not my concern.

Now, if you are part of my health insurance plan, I have chosen to pay into that pool--a voluntary action on my part.

You just want more free shit at others' expense. Leech.

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but I will not allow you be homeless, or die from hunger, or the lack of healthcare



There are plenty of homeless Americans. Have you taken even one of them into your home? Or did you think to yourself, “Hmm. I don’t think I can afford to give free room to even one homeless man.” Add to that the various concerns with the safety of your daughter (whom I think you reasonably care about far more than anyone else) and I can understand why you don’t presently have any homeless people for whom you are putting roofs over their heads.

Die from hunger? Nope. That’s not a problem. Obesity is a problem. Malnourishment is a problem. But dying from hunger is not. In fact, it looks like the poorer have higher BMIs than any other class in the US. The diseases of affluence affect the poor more so than the affluent.

Lack healthcare. How many people besides your immediate family have you paid for their healthcare. I mean, Medicare is underfunded by $100 trillion over the next seventy years. Add Medicaid and SCHIP to it and it’s way more! It will necessitate people like you to take a few families of four and twenty or so geezers and pay for their health care. Starting a decade ago. Now, I understand that you may have some issues affording it. If so, you are part of the 100% of taxpayers (and fee/assessment/withholdings payers, Dr. John) who cannot afford to take care of everyone else and themselves.

The fact that there are homeless people without healthcare demonstrates that you HAVE allowed it to happen. This is the sort of rhetoric that causes deep problems with the speaker. The fact is simple – you can’t do it. Neither can any of us. The 1% can’t do it. The top 10% can’t do it. The top 50% can’t do it. The 100% can’t do it.

The collective cannot perform the role that the individual performs. I personally view society as a collection of individuals who should be freed to succeed or fuck up – and all places in between. The collectivist views the individual as the subject of the society.

The people of this country are my brothers and sisters, too. Guess what – I cannot afford to support my biological brothers and sister. If I want to pay for school for my brother, I can’t afford to pay for a home for myself or my kids. I cannot afford to pay for a home for anybody else. I can’t do it. If it means that I will be homeless by preventing another person from being homeless, I have very little qualms with being honest and saying, “Nope. I care about myself and my kids more than I care about you or your kids.”


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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I just know that my daughter, after a fall, needed to have a head CT at roughly $3,000 of which I had to pay $600 in cash (after insurance premiums!)



That 6000 CT is now down to 3000? (yeah, you said pelvic, but shouldn't head ones be the same or higher?) Seems right - you also overstated the dental prices by about a factor of 2, even for Bay Area pricing.

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So, back again to my issue: I see you’ve bitched about the American health care system. What would you do to fix it? How can a healthcare system be inexpensive, high quality and not rationed?



I asked a question that requires you to actually think. You have not even attempted a response.

Tell me how a healthcare system can be inexpensive, high quality and not rationed.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Go to the heart of the Congo and get some medical care there if you thing ours is worse.



Whether one agrees with the OP or not, yours is a non-thinking response. "Love it or leave it" sentiments are no more valid today than they were in 1968.

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Would conservatives rather have government impose a financial requirement on people who choose not to buy healthcare, or have those who behave responsibly bear the financial burden of a few?



Here’s a libertarian rejoinder: “Why are those who behave responsibly forced to bear the financial burden of a few in the first place?” Note – this wasn’t a problem until 1986 and EMTALA.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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>Note – this wasn’t a problem until 1986 and EMTALA.

In the 1970's it was quite common to treat first and ask for payment later. It wasn't until patient dumping began in earnest in the 1980's that EMTALA came into being.

So this issue existed far before EMTALA.

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Would conservatives rather have government impose a financial requirement on people who choose not to buy healthcare, or have those who behave responsibly bear the financial burden of a few?



Here’s a libertarian rejoinder: “Why are those who behave responsibly forced to bear the financial burden of a few in the first place?” Note – this wasn’t a problem until 1986 and EMTALA.



Who signed that into law, and why?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Reagan did. It was part of COBRA and was a response to patient dumping. Thus resulting in the consolidation of hospitals and the closing of hospitals, ERs, etc., in an effort to control costs and leading to the horror stories of 48 hours in the ER waiting for treatment. That kind of thing.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Reagan did. It was part of COBRA and was a response to patient dumping. Thus resulting in the consolidation of hospitals and the closing of hospitals, ERs, etc., in an effort to control costs and leading to the horror stories of 48 hours in the ER waiting for treatment. That kind of thing.



Reagan - That Bleeding Heart Liberal!
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Look at France, Germany, Austria. Canada and Great Britain. And even the Dominican Republic!

Except the DR, they don't come cheap! But a lot cheaper than the US! And with better outcomes.

Why do you resist best practices so much? And learning from the best? Oh yeah, American exceptionalism; we are exceptionally stupid, so we can't be taught!

Plus, you would go hungry in those countries as malpractice lawsuits seldom yield a Porsche!

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So, back again to my issue: I see you’ve bitched about the American health care system. What would you do to fix it? How can a healthcare system be inexpensive, high quality and not rationed?



I asked a question that requires you to actually think. You have not even attempted a response.

Tell me how a healthcare system can be inexpensive, high quality and not rationed.

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