mpohl 1 #1 December 4, 2011 So, as a US Citizen. Why don't we just junk all of the US? If we don't need a Postal service, maybe we don't need a police force either. Or the USeless military?? Let's not even get into Medicare/Medicaid that is only designed to keep individuals alive that can't tough it out on their own! Let's just get rid of everything that's binds us together as humans!!! December 3, 2011 The Junking of the Postal Service By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL A FEW weeks ago a petition appeared next to the mailboxes in my building’s lobby in Upper Manhattan. It read: “Save Saturday Delivery! ... Save the U.S. Postal Service!” Over the next 24 hours signatures poured onto the sheet of paper. I will not say whether I signed. But I will tell you what arrived in my mailbox that Saturday: two credit card offers; a Linen Source catalog for someone who used to live in my apartment; a notice of a sale on running shoes; some coupons for 10 percent off on pizza delivery; three promotional letters about colleges; and a bank letter about changing terms on my son’s high-school checking account for 2012. As junk mail multiplies and the United States Postal Service struggles for financial survival, experts are increasingly asking the question, do Americans need Saturday mail delivery ... or daily mail delivery ... or a state-run postal service at all? Should mail be a guaranteed government service — like primary education — because it is essential to our well-being? Or has this once hallowed institution, like pay phones, outlived its utility? The founding fathers regarded the postal service as an essential instrument of nation building in a vast new country, serving to “bind the nation together,” according to the law that created it. After radio and telegraph communications rendered that role obsolete in the early 20th century, the post office instead took on an important commercial function, with bills and payments sent by mail allowing for the growth of regional and national companies. But faxes, then direct deposit, and now online billing and payments have provided alternative delivery systems for what was yesterday’s mail — from paychecks to birth announcements, said Ian Lee, a historian of both the United States and Canadian postal services. “The post office is in the final stage of decaying into total irrelevance,” said Mr. Lee, a professor of strategic management at the Sprott School of Business at Carleton University in Ottawa. The fact is that the primary beneficiary of the United States Postal Service today is arguably the advertisers whose leaflets and catalogs flood our mailboxes. First-class mail — items like bills and letters that require a 44-cent stamp — fell 6.6 percent in 2010 alone, continuing a five-year-long plunge. Last year was the first time that fewer than 50 percent of bills in the United States were paid by mail. There were 9.3 billion pounds of “standard mail” — the low-cost postage category available to mass advertisers — but only 3.7 billion of first-class mail. In fact, to compensate for projected declines in “real” mail, the Postal Service has been aggressively promoting the use of new services for advertisers like Every Door Direct, which allows local retailers to place unaddressed promotional material in every mailbox in an area for pennies a piece, with a few clicks of a mouse. “One could argue that the real customer of the Postal Service is now the direct mailer; it is a channel for advertising,” said Chuck Teller, founder of Catalog Choice, an online service in Berkeley, Calif., that helps people get their names off catalog mailing lists; this requires submitting the customer numbers on unwanted catalogs that arrive in the mailbox, one by one. And the problem is not just annoyance. Direct-mail advertising generates an estimated 10 billion pounds of waste each year, costing cities an estimated $1 billion to dispose of it, according to Catalog Choice. No surprise then that dozens of United States localities have hired Catalog Choice to create Internet platforms to allow residents to opt out of mailings. Even at $22,000 for the first year of service, King County, Wash., which includes Seattle, has calculated that it will be a good investment for all the garbage collection it will obviate, said Tom Watson, a project manager in the solid waste division of the county. “I know it’s a big revenue stream for the Postal Service, but to justify this kind of waste because it supports jobs is insane,” said Mr. Watson, who noted that junk-mail reduction was hugely popular with voters. The complicated relationship that many citizens have with the post office was tested in Canada this summer, when a monthlong hiatus in much of Canada’s mail delivery over a labor dispute provoked few complaints. When Canadian postal workers struck in 1990 there was great pressure on government to make concessions. This year, opinion columns ran under headlines like “Who Cares?” and “Postal Strike? Bring it on Baby: Walkout a momentary nuisance — until people realize they don’t need the post office anyway.” The Toronto Star predicted that Canadians would “quickly figure out ways to use it even less than they do now.” And guess what? Canada’s post office long ago ended Saturday delivery and house-by-house delivery in some newer neighborhoods. (Mail is left in banks of boxes at subdivision entrances.) If there is fairly wide agreement that government mail delivery today in America has little practical value for many, there is little consensus about what do to about it. Few broach doing away with the post office entirely. THE post office is a large employer, especially of minority workers, and laying off hundreds of thousands of employees in this economy would be extremely difficult. Even postal skeptics note that it still delivers essential communication to small subgroups that are not (yet) well connected online: the elderly and rural residents. And how else would we get subscription magazines? Ralph Nader has argued that the service should be maintained because it is a crucial delivery network for items like medicine in the case of national emergencies. For now, the overwhelming majority of Americans who pay bills online still prefer to receive paper statements. But to cover its costs, the post office needs to keep mail volume high. And even some high-end direct mailers worry that the contents of American mailboxes are coming to resemble a paper infomercial. “The post office has to make sure the signal-to-noise ratio remains high — if TV was all commercials no one would watch,” said Hamilton Davison, executive director of the American Catalog Mailers Association. Some experts favor a general “do not mail” option for people who do not want to receive any direct mail — although advertisers vehemently oppose that approach, maintaining that glossy unsolicited catalogs remain beloved by shoppers, and the postal system would most likely collapse if there were a sudden drop in its business. The Postal Service claims that 81 percent of American households surveyed in 2010 reported that they either read or scanned advertising mail. So, Professor Lee asked: “If the Postal Service has become a subsidized tool for mass mailers, why does the state still own it?” Perhaps catalogs should be delivered by private companies, ending the centuries-old law that the only a government employee can place things in your mailbox. And what’s the point of getting mail every day, when recycling is picked up only once a week? It is striking that even though many European countries have privatized postal services — shedding thousands of buildings and millions of jobs — the actual delivery of mail looks much as it does here. Deutsche Post, the German postal carrier, which converted from a state company to a private one over a decade ago, is still required to provide coverage six days a week. (And it still delivers and encourages direct mail.) Mr. Davison said the catalog mailers in his industry group could accept the loss of Saturday delivery, and would be fine with every-other-day delivery if that kept the post office afloat and costs down, noting that rates for glossy catalogs have increased greatly. So why are residents of my building resistant? Perhaps it is lingering nostalgia for the thrill of opening a party invitation or a letter from a long-lost college friend — before we had Evite and Facebook. Maybe they should ask themselves the last time they sent one through the mail — or signed something they then put in an envelope. Elisabeth Rosenthal is a reporter and blogger on environmental issues for The New York Times. MORE IN OPINION (12 OF 26 ARTICLES) Gray Matter: Our Microbiomes, Ourselves Read More » Close Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #2 December 4, 2011 Cutting Saturday service and charging more for remote delivery would be a great start... ...But privatization would be better... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #3 December 4, 2011 And what's the current rate for a 1 oz. delivery by FedEx or UPS? You tell me!! It is more than 44c!!!! QuoteCutting Saturday service and charging more for remote delivery would be a great start... ...But privatization would be better... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #4 December 4, 2011 Quote And what's the current rate for a 1 oz. delivery by FedEx or UPS? You tell me!! It is more than 44c!!!! QuoteCutting Saturday service and charging more for remote delivery would be a great start... ...But privatization would be better... Why? You brought it up--you do the research. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #5 December 4, 2011 >Why don't we just junk all of the US? If we don't need a Postal service, maybe we >don't need a police force either. Or the USeless military?? Let's not even get into >Medicare/Medicaid that is only designed to keep individuals alive that can't tough it out >on their own! Let's just get rid of everything that's binds us together as humans!!! If you feel that government services are the only thing that "bind you together" with other humans - well, let's just say you are different from 99.99% of the people I know. Most people are "bound together" through bonds of friendship and family that really have nothing at all to do with the government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #6 December 4, 2011 You can't be real!!! I for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! You let your friends and family go right ahead! And just in case you didn't know it. The FAA is a federal agency, and I appreciate their work!!! P.S.: Of course we are still awaiting a response from deserted_lawyer, as to how much it would cost to deliver a bill to one of his clients. Via UPS or Fedex. I throw in a 44c stamp by USPS for good measure. :) QuoteIf you feel that government services are the only thing that "bind you together" with other humans - well, let's just say you are different from 99.99% of the people I know. Most people are "bound together" through bonds of friendship and family that really have nothing at all to do with the government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #7 December 4, 2011 >I for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! My wife packs my reserve - and I am perfectly OK with that. I would not be as OK if my rig was whisked off to a government facility for packing. I guess we are different in that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #8 December 4, 2011 If your wife packs your reserve, she hopefully was accredited as a Sr Parachute Rigger. Thru the FAA. So her qualification is NOT that she is your wife (or that you are a lazy ass!), but she has passed an independently administered examination. By a government agency, no less! Quote>I for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! My wife packs my reserve - and I am perfectly OK with that. I would not be as OK if my rig was whisked off to a government facility for packing. I guess we are different in that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #9 December 4, 2011 Quote P.S.: Of course we are still awaiting a response from deserted_lawyer, as to how much it would cost to deliver a bill to one of his clients. Via UPS or Fedex. I throw in a 44c stamp by USPS for good measure. :) Bad example. Won't cost him a thing to mail them the bill. He'll add it as an "administrative costs" line item on their bill.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #10 December 4, 2011 We get very little mail other than junk anymore. Most bills are sent online and paid online. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I wrote a check. Perhaps you need to graduate into the present day and times and stop living in the past? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #11 December 4, 2011 Quote If your wife packs your reserve, she hopefully was accredited as a Sr Parachute Rigger. Thru the FAA. So her qualification is NOT that she is your wife (or that you are a lazy ass!), but she has passed an independently administered examination. By a government agency, no less! Quote>I for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! My wife packs my reserve - and I am perfectly OK with that. I would not be as OK if my rig was whisked off to a government facility for packing. I guess we are different in that way. In this case it's apples & oranges--the FAA exercises oversight (in this case), not providing a service. Their ATC functions could be outsourced. The USPS is there to provide a service, and they cannot do it without hemorrhaging money. Privatize it, and it'll operate in the black or fold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #12 December 4, 2011 Quote (or that you are a lazy ass!) what's that I smell??? yup... thats the ban-hammer -- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #13 December 4, 2011 >So her qualification is NOT that she is your wife (or that you are a lazy ass!), but she >has passed an independently administered examination. By a government agency, no >less! I realize that that is your reason. My reason is that I trust her and I know she's a good rigger. (However, I am definitely a lazy ass when it comes to repacking my reserve - I only do it myself when I _really_ have to!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #14 December 4, 2011 Quote You can't be real!!! I for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! You let your friends and family go right ahead! And just in case you didn't know it. The FAA is a federal agency, and I appreciate their work!!! P.S.: Of course we are still awaiting a response from deserted_lawyer, as to how much it would cost to deliver a bill to one of his clients. Via UPS or Fedex. I throw in a 44c stamp by USPS for good measure. :) QuoteIf you feel that government services are the only thing that "bind you together" with other humans - well, let's just say you are different from 99.99% of the people I know. Most people are "bound together" through bonds of friendship and family that really have nothing at all to do with the government. Do your own research. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #15 December 4, 2011 Quote Quote P.S.: Of course we are still awaiting a response from deserted_lawyer, as to how much it would cost to deliver a bill to one of his clients. Via UPS or Fedex. I throw in a 44c stamp by USPS for good measure. :) Bad example. Won't cost him a thing to mail them the bill. He'll add it as an "administrative costs" line item on their bill. Heh. True. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #16 December 4, 2011 Quote If your wife packs your reserve, she hopefully was accredited as a Sr Parachute Rigger. Thru the FAA. So her qualification is NOT that she is your wife (or that you are a lazy ass!), but she has passed an independently administered examination. By a government agency, no less! My rigger was trained and certified by an industry organization the same as all our instructors. The government has no part. Strangely enough Canadian reserves keep opening. Furthermore our main packers are trained and tested by people like me (a non-rigger). The government is completely unnecessary within the skydiving industry other than the aviation side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #17 December 4, 2011 I also had my wife pack my reserves. In those days, I was just as lazy as you are! Of course, she also went thru the same training and took the same exam w/ the very same FAA DPRE. Plus, it really leaves a bad "impression" if the reserve packed by one's wife malfunctions. P.S.: Just another waypoint to not abandon the FAA and USPS :) Quote>So her qualification is NOT that she is your wife (or that you are a lazy ass!), but she >has passed an independently administered examination. By a government agency, no >less! I realize that that is your reason. My reason is that I trust her and I know she's a good rigger. (However, I am definitely a lazy ass when it comes to repacking my reserve - I only do it myself when I _really_ have to!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #18 December 4, 2011 Not an answer. Give me a quote for a 1 oz shipment by UPS or FedEx from 30319 to 97403. YOU DARE TO POST THE QUOTE! Use the lowest quote available!!!! Quote Quote Quote P.S.: Of course we are still awaiting a response from deserted_lawyer, as to how much it would cost to deliver a bill to one of his clients. Via UPS or Fedex. I throw in a 44c stamp by USPS for good measure. :) Bad example. Won't cost him a thing to mail them the bill. He'll add it as an "administrative costs" line item on their bill. Heh. True. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #19 December 5, 2011 And btw, let's just look at a country w/ no functional postal service. Like the Dominican Republic, less than 2 h flight time south of Miami. You will not be able to send a letter or package there! The only reliable services are UPS and DHL. Every letter will cost you a minimum of USD50!. Maybe that is the future for the US w/o a USPS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #20 December 5, 2011 Quote Not an answer. Give me a quote for a 1 oz shipment by UPS or FedEx from 30319 to 97403. YOU DARE TO POST THE QUOTE! Use the lowest quote available!!!! Quote Quote Quote P.S.: Of course we are still awaiting a response from deserted_lawyer, as to how much it would cost to deliver a bill to one of his clients. Via UPS or Fedex. I throw in a 44c stamp by USPS for good measure. :) Bad example. Won't cost him a thing to mail them the bill. He'll add it as an "administrative costs" line item on their bill. Heh. True. Do your own damned research, Boy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #21 December 5, 2011 QuoteI for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! It's major thread drift but the FAA only tests the riggers, it doesn't ensure their continued quality. I know A LOT of people with riggers tickets that I wouldn't let pack my MAIN....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #22 December 5, 2011 QuoteQuoteI for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! It's major thread drift but the FAA only tests the riggers, it doesn't ensure their continued quality. I know A LOT of people with riggers tickets that I wouldn't let pack my MAIN.... but it's oversight by the federal govt... It must be good!!-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #23 December 5, 2011 QuoteI for one enjoy FAA oversight of who packs my reserve! Is this the agency you love to see oversee stuff? NICE! http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/faa-head-randy-babbitt-charged-with-drunk-driving-in-fairfax/2011/12/05/gIQAkNjdWO_blog.html http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/05/9226325-head-of-faa-charged-with-dwi I deal with the FAA more than I like and I can tell you some of the guys are good but most are a bunch of idiots. They are more reactive than proactive. They never seem to react to anything until there's a smoking crater in the ground. And as usual instead of being about aviation safety it's all politic's as usual.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
