dreamdancer 0 #1 November 15, 2011 bit of history... QuoteOn the West Coast, the Wobblies were trying to organize miners, loggers, farm laborers and other migrants who worked at privately owned camps in rural areas. During the off-season the Wobblies would set up soap boxes in front of the office of “sharks,” agents who would extort fees for jobs at these camps – jobs that sometimes did not exist, leaving workers penniless and homeless once they arrived at the work site. Businessmen colluded with politicians, courts and police to try to smash the free speech campaign by banning street speaking, mass arrests, jailings, beatings and vigilante attacks. The press weighed in with opinions like this San Diego Tribune editorial from March 4, 1912: “Hanging is none too good for them. They would be much better dead, for they are absolutely useless in the human economy; they are the waste material of creation and should be drained off into the sewer of oblivion there to rot in cold obstruction like any other excrement.” Even when the courts ruled in favor of free speech, local police would arrest street speakers who would be convicted by local courts of charges like disorderly conduct or conspiracy. In Spokane, Washington, the Wobblies successfully used the tactic of filling the jails to force the city to relent. As one speaker would be arrested, another would mount the soapbox. Kohn writes, “Often these inexperienced orators simply climbed up and began to read the United States Constitution, barely completing a few sentences before they were arrested.” http://www.alternet.org/story/153072/7_occupations_that_changed_us_history/?page=entirestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 355 #2 November 15, 2011 QuoteThe press weighed in with opinions like this San Diego Tribune editorial from March 4, 1912: “Hanging is none too good for them. They would be much better dead, for they are absolutely useless in the human economy; they are the waste material of creation and should be drained off into the sewer of oblivion there to rot in cold obstruction like any other excrement.” I never would have guessed DesertAttorney was writing editorials in 1912! Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #3 November 15, 2011 he has the same spirit...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #4 November 15, 2011 Um - if you value freedom of speech, thank the rule of law - like the First Amendment. Could you be any more contradictory than to credit lawlessness for the rule of law? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #5 November 15, 2011 QuoteUm - if you value freedom of speech, thank the rule of law - like the First Amendment. Could you be any more contradictory than to credit lawlessness for the rule of law? A Dreamer might fail to see that, maybe because he's not an American and can't appreciate our history. Anarchy has never prevailed in our United States, but constitutionally protectred freedom of speech always has. Protesters have always benefited from this, whereas anarchists would destroy any such system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #6 November 15, 2011 if you don't use a limb eventually it'll wither and drop off...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #7 November 15, 2011 Quoteif you don't use a limb eventually it'll wither and drop off... What does that cute little slogan have to do with advocating anarchy? Anarchists would amputate your metaphorical limb. How does that help? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #8 November 15, 2011 QuoteAfter more than 500 arrests and the failure of brutality to cow the protesters, the city of Spokane agreed to recognize the Wobblies right to free speech, assembly and press. Similar battles were waged in Seattle, Fresno, British Columbia and Kansas City. In San Diego the Wobblies were defeated systematic police violence and “armed vigilante squads” who kidnapped Wobblies arriving by train, and hauled them to the town limits “where hundreds were badly beaten, stripped, tarred and feathered, and run out town,” according to Kohn. Despite this setback, the Wobbly campaign to open public space to political speech was eventually enshrined in constitutional law. http://www.alternet.org/story/153072/7_occupations_that_changed_us_history/?page=entirestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #9 November 15, 2011 Quote Despite this setback, the Wobbly campaign to open public space to political speech was eventually enshrined in constitutional law. So the protestors enshrined the constitution.They are therefore disqualified as anarchists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #10 November 15, 2011 They were never anarchist to begin with. But his misleading thread title got us all in here under the false hope we would learn some thing new. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #11 November 15, 2011 QuoteThe IWW was founded in Chicago in June 1905 at a convention of two hundred socialists, anarchists, and radical trade unionists from all over the United States (mainly the Western Federation of Miners) who were opposed to the policies of the American Federation of Labor (AFL). The convention, which took place on June 27, 1905, was then referred to as the "Industrial Congress" or the "Industrial Union Convention"—it would later be known as the First Annual Convention of the IWW. It is considered one of the most important events in the history of industrial unionism. The IWW's first organizers included William D. ("Big Bill") Haywood, Daniel De Leon, Eugene V. Debs, Thomas J Hagerty, Lucy Parsons, "Mother" Mary Harris Jones, Frank Bohn, William Trautmann, Vincent Saint John, Ralph Chaplin, and many others. The IWW's goal was to promote worker solidarity in the revolutionary struggle to overthrow the employing class; its motto was "an injury to one is an injury to all", which improved upon the 19th century Knights of Labor's creed, "an injury to one is the concern of all." In particular, the IWW was organized because of the belief among many unionists, socialists, anarchists and radicals that the AFL not only had failed to effectively organize the U.S. working class, as only about 5% of all workers belonged to unions in 1905, but also was organizing according to narrow craft principles which divided groups of workers. The Wobblies believed that all workers should organize as a class, a philosophy which is still reflected in the Preamble to the current IWW Constitution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_Worldstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #12 November 15, 2011 Quote the false hope we would learn some thing new. We must have been dreamin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #13 November 15, 2011 Just so I understand, a 1905 Convention of 200 people, reported to be from three different ideologies (so maybe 66 anarchists + or -?) , means your link to a 1912 article and thread title is correct? Kudo's. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #14 November 15, 2011 that's history for you...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #15 November 15, 2011 I still think your thread title is misleading, and possibly factually incorrect. But you are using press pieces that are 100~ years old If Pete (from Germany) is back say "Hi" for me! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #16 November 15, 2011 QuoteThey were never anarchist to begin with. But his misleading thread title got us all in here under the false hope we would learn some thing new. Matt Those that are Right Wing Conservatives do have serious issues when it comes to learning anything that conflicts with their belief systems. Anything that challenges the RWC dogma as presented by the corporate media is ALWAYS difficult for them to comprehend. It is part of the DNA of RWCs. They are told what and how to think by their masters, and accept it without question. Any challenge to the dogma is discarded, as thinking independently, with critical analysis and fact checking is not something that is a positive personality trait, to them. It is no surprise that the history of the IWW is something that there is ZERO knowlege of, among RWCs. The people beat the corporate interests in those days. We'll see if the true patriots among us rise to the top these days, as they did in those days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #17 November 15, 2011 Quote Those that are Right Wing Conservatives do have serious issues when it comes to learning anything that conflicts with their belief systems. Anything that challenges the RWC dogma as presented by the corporate media is ALWAYS difficult for them to comprehend. It is part of the DNA of RWCs. They are told what and how to think by their masters, and accept it without question. Any challenge to the dogma is discarded, as thinking independently, with critical analysis and fact checking is not something that is a positive personality trait, to them. This same description could be applied to Berkeley free speechers if an Israeli or other controversial right wing speaker were to come to town. Freedom of speech....so long as we approve of the message. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #18 November 15, 2011 QuoteThose that are Right Wing Conservatives do have serious issues when it comes to learning anything that conflicts with their belief systems. Well, yes. I believe that the Constitution says what it says, and anybody who claims Freedom of Speech stems from anarchy is going to receive my ridicule and lack of belief. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #19 November 15, 2011 Quoteif you don't use a limb eventually it'll wither and drop off... Hence the reason why Americans are free to discuss nazis and all sorts of things that are deemed inappropriate in other countries. Our limbs are alive and well. The problem is what such things as "freedom of speech" - which means that the US government cannot censor the content of speech - is perverted by many to mean "the freedom to say what I want, where I want, when I want, how I want, and to whomever I want, regardless of all other circumstances." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #20 November 15, 2011 Quote thinking independently, with critical analysis and fact checking is not something that is a positive personality trait, to them. There's some hatefull rhetoric. Understanding the difference between a labor union and anarchy requires more critical thinking than even you evidently posess. This thread is about freedom of speech vs. anarchy, both of which are mutually exclusive. QuoteIt is no surprise that the history of the IWW is something that there is ZERO knowlege of Nor has it much historic or political significance. Your own "zero knowledge" seems to be the inability to see the contradiction of the term anarchists applied to those who would organize themselves in a democratic manner. For all their attempt to set themselves apart, the 5000 members of IWW constitute "just another labor union." Hardly important enough to command much attention from anyone other than a left-wing zelot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #21 November 15, 2011 it has much historic interest and the knowledge of these groups will become popular again...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 234 #22 November 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteThey were never anarchist to begin with. But his misleading thread title got us all in here under the false hope we would learn some thing new. Matt Those that are Right Wing Conservatives do have serious issues when it comes to learning anything that conflicts with their belief systems. Anything that challenges the RWC dogma as presented by the corporate media is ALWAYS difficult for them to comprehend. It is part of the DNA of RWCs. They are told what and how to think by their masters, and accept it without question. Any challenge to the dogma is discarded, as thinking independently, with critical analysis and fact checking is not something that is a positive personality trait, to them. It is no surprise that the history of the IWW is something that there is ZERO knowlege of, among RWCs. The people beat the corporate interests in those days. We'll see if the true patriots among us rise to the top these days, as they did in those days. Say "hi" to Joseph Hilstrom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #23 November 15, 2011 Quote as thinking independently, with critical analysis and fact checking is not something that is a positive personality trait, to them. Do you understand the problem of alleging lack of fact checking and critical analysis when you've failed to identify that the First Amendment - the Rule Of Law - is what gave rise to free speech? You certainly thought independently - which is why you missed out on the point. You didn't think critically, which is why an inflammatory and accusatory post such as this bounces back to bite you. You did not think critically. You only thought to critique. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #24 November 15, 2011 Quotethe knowledge of these groups will become popular again... What you consider to be "knowledge" qualifies as nothing more than ideology by definition. Your value for what might become "popular" is hardly surprising or thought-provoking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #25 November 15, 2011 Quoteit has much historic interest and the knowledge of these groups will become popular again... Yes they may. They will become popular again is the true history of the groups is lost due to the propoganda people like you put out there. They lost popularity in at their time because the populace concluded that they caused more problems than they solved. When things suck, people tend to put them on the trash heap of history. History repeats itself when the lessons learned are lost. Note: history demonstrates that ALL groups that purport to act on behalf of workers eventually get either torn apart from within as people jockey for power (which is anathema to equality) or end up shitting on the workers (see Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, Cuba...) My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
