Death of a Salesman

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

No. Actually, it doesn't.

Being a US citizen carries no special weight in regards to targeted killing of terrorists.

Oh, ok, so you, like Amazon, approve of the POTUS ordering the execution of US citizens without giving them their day in court?
The irony of you, and her, accusing others of abandoning the Constitution is astounding.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[nanook 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

No. Actually, it doesn't.

Being a US citizen carries no special weight in regards to targeted killing of terrorists.

Oh, ok, so you, like Amazon, approve of the POTUS ordering the execution of US citizens without giving them their day in court?
The irony of you, and her, accusing others of abandoning the Constitution is astounding.

I do. Because he is not protected under due process of the law. 14th amendment prevents States and local laws from taking away those rights. Nothing about the United States or any "Federal" language.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

No. Actually, it doesn't.

Being a US citizen carries no special weight in regards to targeted killing of terrorists.

Oh, ok, so you, like Amazon, approve of the POTUS ordering the execution of US citizens without giving them their day in court?
The irony of you, and her, accusing others of abandoning the Constitution is astounding.

I do. Because he is not protected under due process of the law. 14th amendment prevents States and local laws from taking away those rights. Nothing about the United States or any "Federal" language.

Well then, I guess the feds can take away any of your rights they want as well.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4197894;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

The link is to a similar discussion a while back.

My opinion was and still is that he represented enough of a threat to warrant this.
Not an immediate threat, but considering his reported direct involvement in the "Underwear Bomber" and his reported involvement in the Ft Hood shootings, he was a real and serious threat. "Clear and Present Danger" anyone?

I am a little uncomfortable with the lack of court judgement or trial, the fact that he never told his side of the story before he was killed. That can turn into a very slippery slope.

BUT...
He wasn't under a "Kill" order, it was a "Capture or Kill" order. Capture simply wasn't an option under those circumstances. Yemen has no effective police force. It's not like he was in a country that could arrest him and then go through the extradition process.
He was also aware of the C or K order. I believe it went to court (his father maybe?) about the legality of the order.
He could have given himself up and gone to court to state his case. He probably could have renounced his membership in AQ and stated he would no longer attack the US and the C or K order may have been lifted.

But he continued to be active in AQ and to threaten the US. And he paid the price.

WRONG... he had hours and hours all over the internet.. explaining his jihad against America.... OOOOPS... America paid attention to a fucktard declaring war on the US... Far too many people laughed at Bin Laden's declaration of war... declare war.... die in a war... pretty simple.

The rest.... and all of the blithering about Obama... is just a whole lot of BUTT HURT... that their hero's could not "git er done"

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks it's ok to execute a US citizen without due process . . .

But this is simply semantic bullshit. There was a process. It was very public. It wasn't the process you think it should be, but it was absolutely a process and an exceptional one dealing with known terrorists.

If the guy didn't want to be considered a terrorist, he could have flown to a neutral country and turned himself in.

All the rest, I don't give a crap about.

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

so, any citizens of other countries than the mighty US are fair game!?

in that case, one can only hope other countries do think the same about citizens of the US.

have a nice holiday everyone!

Oh but they do... and have been for a long time now... If you are my enemy I will seek to kill you no matter how deep a fucking cave you dig... we are coming for you... that is how JIHAD works.... deal with it.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

No. Actually, it doesn't.

Being a US citizen carries no special weight in regards to targeted killing of terrorists.

Oh, ok, so you, like Amazon, approve of the POTUS ordering the execution of US citizens without giving them their day in court?
The irony of you, and her, accusing others of abandoning the Constitution is astounding.

I do. Because he is not protected under due process of the law. 14th amendment prevents States and local laws from taking away those rights. Nothing about the United States or any "Federal" language.

Well then, I guess the feds can take away any of your rights they want as well.

YOU... and your ILK... already took us down that road.. in the name of fear of the evil doers... Its called the Patriot Act.... and a LOT of us warned you it was goat fuck stupid.. then ... just as it is now.

But you guys opened the barn door wide... to all those pesky unintended consequences.. that you were so damn good with when the Shrub and his stupid little minions supported it and started turning it inwards towards Americans in MANY MANY WAYS.... you were warned.

Fuck everyone who supported that travesty to American Freedom..

[Belgian_Draft 0]

But Bush is an asshole for taking out Saddam.
Got it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

But Bush is an asshole for taking out Saddam.
Got it.

DAYUM.. I was not aware Saddam was an American.. covered by the Partiot Act.....

I think if you look back.. I also brought up just how GOAT FUCK STUPID you and your Glorius Leaders Awsum Adventure into Iraq was going to turn out.

Everyone who supported the PNAC dipshits in this debacle... can also go fuck themselves.... for the thousands of unneccessary dead Americans as well as all the others.

Funny how that works.

Anyone want to take some side bets on how long it is before there is a ShiaStan( run by Iran),,, a Kurdistan( just long enought to pis off the Turks and they commit another Genocide of the Kurds this time.. like the Armenians).... and a SunniStan aligned with Saudi Arabia and Jordan... instead of the idiocy that was a country called Iraq???

[quade 3]

Quote

Oh, ok, so you, like Amazon, approve of the POTUS ordering the execution of US citizens . . .

The President doesn't.

The previous administration put a system in place by which terrorists are identified by the US military and CIA for targeted killings.

You really should read up on how the process works before spouting off about it.

I've posted a couple of links to Wikipedia to get you started.

You might also want to read this.;
http://wiki.victorybriefs.com/images/9/9c/Murphy_and_Radsan_(2009),_'Due_Process_and_Targeted_Killing_of_Terrorists'.pdf

Ultimately the President, whichever one is currently in office, has the final say, but to jump to the conclusion that the President simply finds a personal enemy of his and orders that he be killed is simply wrong. There is, in fact, a system of checks and balances in place to ensure only legitimate (under US and international law) targeted killings take place.

This was absolutely the case here.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks it's ok to execute a US citizen without due process . . .

But this is simply semantic bullshit. There was a process. It was very public. It wasn't the process you think it should be, but it was absolutely a process and an exceptional one dealing with known terrorists.

If the guy didn't want to be considered a terrorist, he could have flown to a neutral country and turned himself in.

All the rest, I don't give a crap about.

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

so, any citizens of other countries than the mighty US are fair game!?

in that case, one can only hope other countries do think the same about citizens of the US.

have a nice holiday everyone!

Oh but they do... and have been for a long time now... If you are my enemy I will seek to kill you no matter how deep a fucking cave you dig... we are coming for you... that is how JIHAD works.... deal with it.

which government/country/president exactly has laid JIHAD upon the US!? or are you implying that POTUS has laid JIHAD on everyone else? fucking muslims, ey!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks it's ok to execute a US citizen without due process . . .

But this is simply semantic bullshit. There was a process. It was very public. It wasn't the process you think it should be, but it was absolutely a process and an exceptional one dealing with known terrorists.

If the guy didn't want to be considered a terrorist, he could have flown to a neutral country and turned himself in.

All the rest, I don't give a crap about.

He was a US citizen. That trumps all else.

so, any citizens of other countries than the mighty US are fair game!?

in that case, one can only hope other countries do think the same about citizens of the US.

have a nice holiday everyone!

Oh but they do... and have been for a long time now... If you are my enemy I will seek to kill you no matter how deep a fucking cave you dig... we are coming for you... that is how JIHAD works.... deal with it.

which government/country/president exactly has laid JIHAD upon the US!? or are you implying that POTUS has laid JIHAD on everyone else? fucking muslims, ey!?

They declared it...they have killed "unbelievers by the thousands all over the world.... I think we can help lots and lots of them to reach their wildest dream... even if it may work out for them a tad different then they may have been led to believe.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

Oh, ok, so you, like Amazon, approve of the POTUS ordering the execution of US citizens . . .

The President doesn't.

The previous administration put a system in place by which terrorists are identified by the US military and CIA for targeted killings.

You really should read up on how the process works before spouting off about it.

I've posted a couple of links to Wikipedia to get you started.

You might also want to read this.;
http://wiki.victorybriefs.com/images/9/9c/Murphy_and_Radsan_(2009),_'Due_Process_and_Targeted_Killing_of_Terrorists'.pdf

Ultimately the President, whichever one is currently in office, has the final say, but to jump to the conclusion that the President simply finds a personal enemy of his and orders that he be killed is simply wrong. There is, in fact, a system of checks and balances in place to ensure only legitimate (under US and international law) targeted killings take place.

This was absolutely the case here.

Like you said, the president has the final say.
Thank you for proving my point.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

But Bush is an asshole for taking out Saddam.
Got it.

DAYUM.. I was not aware Saddam was an American.. covered by the Partiot Act.....

I think if you look back.. I also brought up just how GOAT FUCK STUPID you and your Glorius Leaders Awsum Adventure into Iraq was going to turn out.

Everyone who supported the PNAC dipshits in this debacle... can also go fuck themselves.... for the thousands of unneccessary dead Americans as well as all the others.

Funny how that works.

Anyone want to take some side bets on how long it is before there is a ShiaStan( run by Iran),,, a Kurdistan( just long enought to pis off the Turks and they commit another Genocide of the Kurds this time.. like the Armenians).... and a SunniStan aligned with Saudi Arabia and Jordan... instead of the idiocy that was a country called Iraq???

Saddam, wasn't a US citizen, which is exactly my point. You think Bush is an asshole for going after a sadistic tyrant dictator who is engaged in genocide against his own people, yet you support Obama giving the ok to kill a US citizen without benefit of trial.
How the FUCK can you claim to support the Constitution when you defend a terrorist like Saddam over a US citizen? HOW?????
Don't bother explaining. We all know the how and why.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

Blah Blah Blah...


WAITER>...... MORE FROMAGE

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

You think Bush is an asshole for going after a sadistic tyrant dictator who is engaged in genocide against his own people, yet you support Obama giving the ok to kill a US citizen without benefit of trial.
How the FUCK can you claim to support the Constitution when you defend a terrorist like Saddam over a US citizen? HOW?????

Bush didn't just make or attempt a strike against Saddam now, did he?

Teeny bit more difference between the two actions than A = citizen and B = not citizen.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Blah Blah Blah...


WAITER>...... MORE FROMAGE

Yep, that's all you think the Constitution is..."blah blah blah".
Unless, of course, you want to hide behind it. Then it's pretty damn handy.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

You think Bush is an asshole for going after a sadistic tyrant dictator who is engaged in genocide against his own people, yet you support Obama giving the ok to kill a US citizen without benefit of trial.
How the FUCK can you claim to support the Constitution when you defend a terrorist like Saddam over a US citizen? HOW?????

Bush didn't just make or attempt a strike against Saddam now, did he?

Teeny bit more difference between the two actions than A = citizen and B = not citizen.

No more difference, not for the intents of this discussion.
But, if you really want to go there, ok.
Saddam, who was not a US citizen, was killing his own people by the hundreds and thousands. Entire villages at a time by testing chemical weapons on them. An Amazon has a problem with that because it was a Republican president who was in office.
Anwar al Awlaki was a US citizen who was engaged in ations against his own country. Though an asshole who needed killing, he had rights as a US citizen that Saddam did not. And Amazon is just fine with those rights being pushed aside.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,396]

>Well then, I guess the feds can take away any of your rights they want as well.

Opinions from right wingers on this topic back when Bush was president:

"In the future it is prudent to beat the information out of him and then put a cap in his head and move on. That way we can continue our peaceful lives, and not have to hear from those wishing to give confort to those whom wish to kill us. Jose Padilla is intitled to nothing more than a quick trial and a firing squad."

"it was and would be perfectly appropriate to jail indefinitely any members of the communist party? . . . .If they had a similar history as Padilla then yes. "

"I, unlike you, have at least a moderate amount of faith in our government and trust that they have enough evidence to prove those charges. . . . I have the comfort of knowing Padilla's little bomb never got built and used."

"Padilla being held this long . . . There is plenty of evidence to prove he was involved in a plot to harm large numbers of people. I don't feel a bit sorry for him."

"I for one am not inclined to shed a tear for Inmate Padilla, nor am I inclined to take up his cause."

"Most likely, President Lincoln or President Roosevelt would have already executed this guy."

"I feel the government has done the right thing and I will not apologize for feeling that way."

"Wow..You think this guy is INNOCENT?"

"Leave the rest of it to the people who are tasked with the nearly impossible job of protecting US soil from people whose sole purpose is your death. I'd have to say they're doing just fine. "

"have a person running around free as a bird who had spent years training to kill people using terrorist methods and was known to be plotting such an act?"

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

...Anwar al Awlaki was a US citizen who was engaged in ations against his own country. Though an asshole who needed killing, he had rights as a US citizen that Saddam did not. And Amazon is just fine with those rights being pushed aside.

What difference is there between the rights of US citizens and non-citizens? I always thought the rights laid out in the Constitution applied to all in the US.

That's why the "enemy combatants" were interred at Gitmo. It's not US soil, so they didn't have any US rights there.

And I'm not aware of any special rights US citizens have when overseas, as far as being targeted by the US.
I could be wrong on this, but I don't know of any difference in the rights of citizens or non-citizens for this sort of targeted killing.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You think Bush is an asshole for going after a sadistic tyrant dictator who is engaged in genocide against his own people, yet you support Obama giving the ok to kill a US citizen without benefit of trial.
How the FUCK can you claim to support the Constitution when you defend a terrorist like Saddam over a US citizen? HOW?????

Bush didn't just make or attempt a strike against Saddam now, did he?

Teeny bit more difference between the two actions than A = citizen and B = not citizen.

No more difference, not for the intents of this discussion.
But, if you really want to go there, ok.
Saddam, who was not a US citizen, was killing his own people by the hundreds and thousands. Entire villages at a time by testing chemical weapons on them. An Amazon has a problem with that because it was a Republican president who was in office.
Anwar al Awlaki was a US citizen who was engaged in ations against his own country. Though an asshole who needed killing, he had rights as a US citizen that Saddam did not. And Amazon is just fine with those rights being pushed aside.

Jesus H Christ do ANY of you people actually listen to yourselves... or do you get every one of your ideas from the FUCKING RETARDS at FAUX NEWS.

An accurate history of what occured in Iraq is instrumental to not sounding like a complete and utter fucking...........

Which FUCKING RETARDS were in power when he gassed the KURDS...oh and from where did he get the GAS???( Hint.. look for a picture of Donald Rumsfeld with Sadamm making nice nice.

Which FUCKING RETARD was it that was in power after GUlf War one.. who would not help the Kurds and Shiites while Sadaam butchered thousands after the FUCKING MORON encouraged them to revolt????

And there is the other FUCKING RETARD TEXICAN that decided to swing his miniture little dick because he wanted to be a WAR PRESIDENTand invade Iraq.. instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan.. Talk about the Gang that can't shoot straight

Oh.. and how many Americans were killed because of Mini-dicks macho bullshit adventure into the history books... and here you are whinging on and on about a fucking traitor who was not only aiding and abetting the enemy... HE FUCKING JOINED THEM


All brought to us by the FUCKING RETARDS that put them there in the first place

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You think Bush is an asshole for going after a sadistic tyrant dictator who is engaged in genocide against his own people, yet you support Obama giving the ok to kill a US citizen without benefit of trial.
How the FUCK can you claim to support the Constitution when you defend a terrorist like Saddam over a US citizen? HOW?????

Bush didn't just make or attempt a strike against Saddam now, did he?

Teeny bit more difference between the two actions than A = citizen and B = not citizen.

No more difference, not for the intents of this discussion.

Yes, for the purposes of this discussion. Support or opposition to X Y or Z invasion does not need to have anything to do with defending (seriously?) a tyrant, or supporting the Constitution.

For example, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan but not the invasion of Iraq. Not for Constitutional reasons, not for reasons of international law, not because I like Saddam and not because my feelings towards Bush had changed.

Quote

But, if you really want to go there, ok.
Saddam, who was not a US citizen, was killing his own people by the hundreds and thousands. Entire villages at a time by testing chemical weapons on them.

Chemical weapons testing? For the 2003 invasion that horse had well and truly bolted.

Quote

Anwar al Awlaki was a US citizen who was engaged in ations against his own country. Though an asshole who needed killing, he had rights as a US citizen that Saddam did not.

What are they, exactly?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?