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dreamdancer

Most of the Unemployed No Longer Receive Unemployment Benefits

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the old multiplier...

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Government unemployment benefits weren't designed to sustain people for long stretches without work. They usually don't have to. In the recoveries from the previous three recessions, the longest average duration of unemployment was 21 weeks, in July 1983.

By contrast, in the wake of the Great Recession, the figure reached 41 weeks in September. That's the longest on records dating to 1948. The figure is now 39 weeks.

"It was a good safety net for a shorter recession," said Carl Van Horn, an economist at Rutgers University. It assumes "the economy will experience short interruptions and then go back to normal."

Weekly unemployment checks average about $300 nationwide. If the extended benefits aren't renewed, growth could slow by up to a half-percentage point next year, economists say.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that each $1 spent on unemployment benefits generates up to $1.90 in economic growth. The CBO has found that the program is the most effective government policy for increasing growth among 11 options it's analyzed.

Jon Polis lives in East Greenwich, R.I., one of the 20 states where 99 weeks of benefits are available. He used them all up after losing his job as a warehouse worker in 2008. His benefits paid for groceries, car maintenance and health insurance.

Now, Polis, 55, receives disability insurance payments, food stamps and lives in government-subsidized housing. He's been unable to find work because employers in his field want computer skills he doesn't have.

"Employers are crying that they can't find qualified help," he said. But the ones he interviewed with "weren't willing to train anybody.



http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/11/05-3
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"Employers are crying that they can't find qualified help," he said. But the ones he interviewed with "weren't willing to train anybody."



Yeah, that's sort of the difference between "qualified help" and "unqualified help".
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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"Employers are crying that they can't find qualified help," he said. But the ones he interviewed with "weren't willing to train anybody."



Yeah, that's sort of the difference between "qualified help" and "unqualified help".



Understand it's a buyers market when it comes to labor though.

Some employers (I'd actually wager most at this point) don't hire anyone they don't think is "perfect" which includes not just "qualified help" but FAR beyond that to include other factors. Sometimes those factors are actually legally protected, but now employers don't even have to ask the illegal questions in an interview. They can simply look the person up on Facebook and see whether or not he's over 50 or has a family (it's cheaper to hire young labor without families) and just not schedule him for the potentially dangerous (actionable) interview.

The entire HR process in this country is pretty fucked up.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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The entire HR process in this country is pretty fucked up.



I agree, one of my best friends has been doing A/C and appliance repair over twenty years, he is has all the certifications, and in many states. When he was 18, we were hanging out at a movie theater parking lot after it was closed with about 50 kids from school. Cops came, found beer in some cars, and make everyone call their parents for a ride, and made us leave our cars. My mom picked us up, let us drop her off and let me use her car to pick my car up, because neither of us were drinking and it was bullshit. Upon returning to the theater, we were arrested for tresspass after warning. My mom came to the jail, and the cops said we were arrested because they knew we were drinking before. Mom insisted I was breath alyzed. We both were and passed, they said I was stoned then. I was released to mom, my friend to his. The next day I was piss tested by mom after I offered, and passed. We were offered a plea, I declined and said Ill take court, my friends mom wouldnt let him and took the plea. They dropped my case, and he got probation. Now every time he applies for a job, they do a background check on him. Because of a bullshit tresspass charge when he was 18, he gets denied for every job. That is something I find rediculous!


Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

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In England getting an arrest gets you a criminal record even if you are not charged. You get your DNA and finger prints taken even if you have not been charged. It shows up on CRB checks and ECRB checks as well. So if you are arrested for anything even if you are found to be completely innocent or the charges dropped you still retain a criminal record.

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"Employers are crying that they can't find qualified help," he said. But the ones he interviewed with "weren't willing to train anybody."



Yeah, that's sort of the difference between "qualified help" and "unqualified help".



Yes and no.

There's unqualified in that they can't do basic work - failure of education or of the person to apply himself. Certainly there is a lot of that when only 70some percent of kids are getting their high school diploma.

But then there is unqualified in the sense that they have been doing like work for many years, but not the exact same ones. A computer tech that worked on dell, not HP. An HR person that used SAP, not Peoplesoft (or whatever Oracle renamed it to). Many times these are mere dialects of the same language and it would be more appropriate to measure on quality of work and ability to understand the bigger picture.

In the tech world, this sort of practice was long done to defend hiring H1Bs at lower salaries, despite that a local candidate could be brought up to speed in a few months as part of the usual in house training in the company environment. These people are qualified, but not as cheap as the employer would like.

In our current economy where the employers are generally in the drivers seat, it's based on the notion that if you wait long enough, the perfect candidate will come along. Meanwhile your current group works extra hours to make up for the gap. It's not like they're going to quit, right?

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>The entire HR process in this country is pretty fucked up.

I disagree...Boeing is looking to HIRE 1,000 or more employees to feel positions in their North Carolina facilities. The administration has done a very good job at shutting those jobs down, as well as Nancy Pelosi stating that the National Labor Board should be allowed to shut down the Boeing plant if they want hire Union Labor.
What a SHIT HEAD for a Congress Women.

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It's nutty out there. If you have a job odds are the pay will not go up any time soon. If you don't have a job expect your next one to pay a solid 25% less.

At my local university job fair, I walked in to collect business cars, toys and see what was up.

One of the job openings has assistent head of HR for a parma division in NYC.

10 years of HR experience.
MBA, 3.5 GPA
Willing to travel 50% of the time
Pay?
$75k

So let's say you were an MBA at say 18! You would be 28 now with the experience making $75k in NYC...not bad! But odds are the average person was well over 40.

It's called "empty nesting" it's how these companies fulfill their obligations so they keep the right to come to the university year in and year out to recruit. They set up a job where by the criteria is so nutty no one can or would apply for it!

I recall in 02 the same thing at my university. IBM had ONE job.
5 years experience.
PhD
US citizen! (how many comps sci guys you know who have a PhD and are Us Citizens!)
$45k.


Boys, girls....it's going to be a very bad 10 years! Expect to see your pay as a middle class prick to stay the same or go down. Expect 4% increase in true inflation and well.....I hate to say it but expect those making $250K+ to see greater pay and a better life for their bonuses are based on how much more they can get from the given HR resource they have at hand.

But what can you do? Protest?
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

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So let's say you were an MBA at say 18!

Who has an MBA at 18? At that age most people are just out of high school, freshmen at best. They have to complete an undergraduate degree, then the MBA, so 25-26 is really the earliest you could expect to have an MBA in your pocket. Many people go to work for a while before coming back for the MBA, so they would be even older. Add in the requirement for 10 years experience, and 40 seems perfectly reasonable.

But then perhaps you had your engineering degree at 12?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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Don,
That was sarcasm.
As in WHO has an MBA by 18?
So then you add 10 years of expereince and ....

Now you get it?
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

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Don,
That was sarcasm.
As in WHO has an MBA by 18?
So then you add 10 years of expereince and ....

Now you get it?



You've got a bit of a problem, there... the ad as you wrote it says 10 years HR experience, not 10 years post-MBA.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Some of what the Shah says is correct. Wages in the private sector are stagnant. They have remained the same for the last decade while the cost of living continues to rise. Plus when someone does find themselves out of work, they may need to accept a pay cut to do the same job only to get back into the game. As unfortunate as this is, this is what happens in a tight labor market when the employers get to pick the cream of litter when they are considering new hires. But the Shah also seems to think that someone who has not even hit their 30s yet should be a top income earner. I know when I was in my 20s I was no where near being a top income earner in my profession. Never in our history have people in their 20s ever been top income earners (not counting pro athletes, entertainers and entrepreneurs), so why does the present generation of 20 something year old people think they are entitled to be top income earners in their professions? I am all for getting people in North America and Europe back to work, but we must stop this "I am entitled to my entitlements" nonsense.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Don,
That was sarcasm.
As in WHO has an MBA by 18?
So then you add 10 years of expereince and ....

Now you get it?



You've got a bit of a problem, there... the ad as you wrote it says 10 years HR experience, not 10 years post-MBA.


Further Sarcasm.
You graduated with yout MBA @18 and landed the job in HR!

What the kids in China are graduating with MBA's at 18!

As for income and younger people....two words...Student Loans!

People are graduating with student loans that stick them with $1k / month in payments.

So at $75k, $1k/month for student loan, a place to live in or around NYC....and oh boy...welcome to the working poor! Aren't you glad you got that MBA and worked your ass off like that kid in China!
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

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So at $75k, $1k/month for student loan, a place to live in or around NYC....and oh boy



For sure $75k in NYC (or the Bay Area) will land you in poverty if you do not have some place to stay where your rent is basically free.

In 1989 I interviewed for an IT job at Morgan Stanley/Dean Witter in one of the World Trade Center towers. I was young and naive thinking oh how cool would it be to move from Montreal (where I was at the time) to life in the Big Apple. In retrospective I am glad I did not get the job. No if you have to live in the Big Apple to be a player, you better be making the big bucks. But not everyone needs to work in the Big Apple.

Things at not good right now, arguably things are even worse than the early 1980s. But there are still a few jurisdictions where companies are having a hard time finding qualified workers. Problem is, you need to have experience in the fields they need help in and you need to be willing to relocate. Right now there are jobs in Saskatchewan and Alberta that are not being filled. But be warned, winters in Saskatchewan and Alberta can be a little harsh for those who's head does not split in two when they talk. :ph34r:


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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The job I saw was in NYC.

I know the further out you go from NYC the lower the pay.

It is what it is. The companies are making due with very little staff and there is no reason to hire more or to pay more for anyone who is middle management and lower.

If some one gives you lip....fire their ass...hire a new guy for 25% less and take 5% bonus.

If you do loose your job, be willing to work for 25% less. But if you have a home and bills.....

Well no clue how that would work? I mean you could always return the keys to the bank right?

It's not a good market right now, people are PISSED and they want blood. Be it Obamas or some CEO of some bank.
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

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I mean you could always return the keys to the bank right?



If push comes to shove at some point in time you may be better off doing this. Relocation is not easy and there are no guarantees that the area who needs workers today will need workers tomorrow. But people need to keep all their cards on the table. Canada and the USA have something called a Free Trade agreement (even though Obama continues to violate this agreement) and it is not just goods that supposedly cross the border with limited to no trade restrictions. People who are qualified workers can also cross the border. I had 8 absolutely fantastic years working in Colorado as a temporary NAFTA worker and there is no reason why Americans with similar experience/education can not live and work in a part of Canada that needs workers. There may or may not be a job for you in Saskatchewan or Alberta right now, but these two provinces need skilled workers and you have to think some of the people with similar skills in places like Texas could easily come up here to fill some of these jobs, just as long as they can handle the harsh winters and handle living among people who's head splits in two when they talk. :ph34r:


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Don,
That was sarcasm.
As in WHO has an MBA by 18?
So then you add 10 years of expereince and ....

Now you get it?

Generally I'm pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, even despite the lack of a sarcasm emoticon. In this case, no I still don't see the sarcasm. If you're starting with the assumption that $75k is a reasonable salary for a 28-year-old, and are reasoning backward to conclude they would then need to have their MBA by the age of 18, then you're not talking sarcasm, you're talking "in your dreams", "you're so removed from reality it would be funny if it wasn't so delusional" fantasy. Much like your ideas about women.

Here's a reality check for you. You bust your ass to get an education. Then you start at an entry level position and prove your worth. Maybe if you're really good eventually you'll be able to provide $75,000 worth of service to your employer, or to your company if you're the owner/CEO, by mid career at the earliest, or maybe before you retire if you're like most people (for whom $75,000 would be a wet dream). What inexperienced, just out of school, hardly any experience 28-year-old brings $75,000 of value to anyone? Where did you get your sense of entitlement?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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>Here's a reality check for you. You bust your ass to get an education. Then you start at an entry level position and prove your worth. Maybe if you're really good eventually you'll be able to provide $75,000 worth of service to your employer, or to your company if you're the owner/CEO, by mid career at the earliest

I'm not really sticking up for Shah but he lives in the NE and doesnt seem to be out of line with his salary expectations. I'm not sure if you have lived in the NYC area but 75k is not alot.

to give you some perspective. In my town, metro NYC, the DPW pays 80k after 3 yrs. Police make 150k after 5yrs. Easily done by 28. Pharma sales, 75k by 28 is easily done. Same in advertising. Do you want to guess what a 28yr old VP at an Inv Bank makes? If he has made senior trader or PM, could range from multiple 6 figs to million.

I dont think its odd to expect 75k with an MBA and some experience. Not in certain parts of the country.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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to give you some perspective. In my town, metro NYC, the DPW pays 80k after 3 yrs. Police make 150k after 5yrs. Easily done by 28. Pharma sales, 75k by 28 is easily done. Same in advertising. Do you want to guess what a 28yr old VP at an Inv Bank makes? If he has made senior trader or PM, could range from multiple 6 figs to million.


Yeah but all but the Inv Banker are doing well now.
All the others are taking big pay cuts or not getting anything or worse...loosing their jobs.

And you got it! If you want that same job at another company get ready to make 25% less.

Why? Well you see that investment banker has to make his money.
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

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I'm not really sticking up for Shah but he lives in the NE and doesnt seem to be out of line with his salary expectations. I'm not sure if you have lived in the NYC area but 75k is not alot.



legal secretaries in San Francisco make that sort of coin.


Did or do?

Know two ladies who are looking for a gig, experience and all....no way can they pull that here in NJ/NYC.
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

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to give you some perspective. In my town, metro NYC, the DPW pays 80k after 3 yrs. Police make 150k after 5yrs. Easily done by 28. Pharma sales, 75k by 28 is easily done. Same in advertising. Do you want to guess what a 28yr old VP at an Inv Bank makes? If he has made senior trader or PM, could range from multiple 6 figs to million.

Thanks for the perspective. I've never lived anywhere close to NYC, and to be honest have no desire to do so, as I don't enjoy big cities. How can those sort of salaries be sustainable? Does NYC pay teachers six-figure salaries? How can the city government afford to attract and keep workers to provide necessary services?

In my neck of the woods a PhD in molecular biology and six years of postdoctoral experience may buy you a job with a starting salary of $55-65,000. On the other hand you could easily (even before the foreclosure crisis) find a fairly new 4 bedroom/3 full bathroom house on a large lot (with lots of trees if you want) for $200-250,000. What will $250,000 buy you in NYC? I just built a new house on 18 acres, about 17 miles from my work. Even with "rush hour" traffic, I can be in my lab within 30 minutes of leaving the house. I doubt many NYC bankers have 18 acres and a 1/2 hr commute, even with their million dollar salaries.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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In my neck of the woods a PhD in molecular biology and six years of postdoctoral experience may buy you a job with a starting salary of $55-65,000. On the other hand you could easily (even before the foreclosure crisis) find a fairly new 4 bedroom/3 full bathroom house on a large lot (with lots of trees if you want) for $200-250,000. What will $250,000 buy you in NYC? I just built a new house on 18 acres, about 17 miles from my work. Even with "rush hour" traffic, I can be in my lab within 30 minutes of leaving the house. I doubt many NYC bankers have 18 acres and a 1/2 hr commute, even with their million dollar salaries.



acreage, no. Short commute, maybe. I can bicycle to my office at the far end of downtown SF, in about 20 minutes. Much better food, too. Pick your lifestyle.

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>Thanks for the perspective. I've never lived anywhere close to NYC, and to be honest have no desire to do so, as I don't enjoy big cities. How can those sort of salaries be sustainable? Does NYC pay teachers six-figure salaries? How can the city government afford to attract and keep workers to provide necessary services?

Public school teachers in my area make about 80k and in the nicer towns close to 100k after about 5 years. administrators make multiple six figures. We have some of the highest taxes in the country. so we can afford it but complain alot. to be fair, our public schools are also some of the best in the nation. in NYC teachers make about 70-80k, regular teacher not an admin person. not bad considering its not a full time job.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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