Fatality at Occupy Vancouver event

[Amazon 7]

So what you basically seem to feel is..... fit in with what you think is holy and good or else you are a worthless piece of shit not deserving of life....


Got it.

My point stands and thank you for illustrating it.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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>If you knew anything about Canada you would know that it was Harper's fault.

Fair enough. Next time I am in Canada I will blame all my woes on Harper.

BULLSHIT! Trudeau got a blowjob.

[Amazon 7]

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>If you knew anything about Canada you would know that it was Harper's fault.

Fair enough. Next time I am in Canada I will blame all my woes on Harper.

BULLSHIT! Trudeau got a blowjob.

Yeah... but since the conservatives here would give him a pass because Margaret Trudeau was hot... they would not hold it against him.

[lawrocket 3]

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Without compassion you will never have peace in your life or those around you.

Perhaps my experience is different. Compassion for my father was destroying me. There was no peace. There was nothing but worry. There was fear. I hated to see him on that path and trying to stop him was the compassionate thing to do.

Guess what? Compassion for him meant none for me. The more time I spent being compassionate for others who were fucking themselves meant less compassion for those who were victimized by them. I had no choice about who my father was. Neither did my brothers. As an adult I had a choice – continue trying to help my dad after a decade of ineffectiveness or focus my compassion on those who NEEDED is through no fault of their own.

Yes, it’s not compassionate to say I felt some relief when he died a year and a half ago. No longer did I have to worry that he would show up at my door and wreak havoc on my family. Sympathy for my father was, in fact, antipathy towards me and my brothers.

It’s why I think the “without compassion” term is poorly phrased. Is desert attorney without compassion? Hell no. Am I without compassion? No way. Are we without caring? No. People who know me know that I care very deeply about my kids. About my wife. About my job and my clients. About my friends.

My compassion is not without limit. I lack the fortitude to direct my compassion toward anyone and anything. It would be disrespectful of myself and my family to direct my sympathies to her. I will not condone her actions. I will not respect her actions. I will not sympathize with her. She did something that is deserving of my absolute disdain.

I gave up on feeling sorry for myself long ago. With that came my giving up on arbitrary sympathy. I feel sorry for those who suffer through no fault of their own and not for those who bring misfortune upon themselves.

Only by directing my compassion could I find peace.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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So what you basically seem to feel is..... fit in with what you think is holy and good or else you are a worthless piece of shit not deserving of life....

Got it.

My point stands and thank you for illustrating it.

Wherever did you get the idea that lawrocket was saying people were worthless pieces of shit not deserving of life. I suggest you go back and re-read what was written, but this time read it with an open mind. Yes there are people on the other side of the fence who also have closed minds, but lawrocket is not one of them. Good grief ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[wmw999 2,114]

No, just not going to get a job or handout from Lawrocket. But, ya know -- it's his right to deal with whom he chooses on an individual basis.

You can't discriminate based on many things in hiring, firing, membership in some clubs, etc.

But you can discriminate in whom you choose to associate with on your own time, and whom you choose to donate money to.

Of course, to me, intolerance is often a sign of not being willing to actually think about things.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lawrocket 3]

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So what you basically seem to feel is..... fit in with what you think is holy and good or else you are a worthless piece of shit not deserving of life....


Got it.

My point stands and thank you for illustrating it.

Jeanne - I valued her life more than she did.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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No, just not going to get a job or handout from Lawrocket. But, ya know -- it's his right to deal with whom he chooses on an individual basis.

You can't discriminate based on many things in hiring, firing, membership in some clubs, etc.

But you can discriminate in whom you choose to associate with on your own time, and whom you choose to donate money to.

Of course, to me, intolerance is often a sign of not being willing to actually think about things.

Wendy P.

I think I have said it before... that yes indeed I am VERY intolerant of those who exibit intolerance... and from the first post.. the intolerant have been on a rampage of intolerance....

So joke THEM since none of them deserve a fuck.

[lawrocket 3]

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Of course, to me, intolerance is often a sign of not being willing to actually think about things.

Of course! That’s where one views the reasons for the intolerance. I have things that I do not tolerate. Period. I have standards for myself and others. I see a person with a swastika tattooed on his face, I will have no tolerance for that individual. He’s not getting a job from me. He’s not even going to mow my lawn, fix my car, etc. It ain’t going to happen.

He has his right to express himself. And I have my right to say, “his expressiveness just cost him my money.” I can philosophically applaud his bravery in stating his unpopular beliefs and fully support his right to do so. Meanwhile, I will privately – or even publicly – share my disgust at what he believes in.

I appreciate the moral courage of those who express themselves in ways that I don’t. I don’t have any piercings or tattoos but that’s mainly because I can’t see any personal benefit to myself for getting them. On top of that, I realize that there is a significant chance that I’d like them too much and have sleeves within a couple of years and find myself experiencing the lack of credibility that goes with it in my profession. I’m not willing to take that risk.

But this is the think about tolerance: who would argue that one should tolerate another person calling people niggers? I would argue that the person absolutely has the right to say it. I would also say that I have no tolerance for such a person being around me, my kids or my business. It’s not a matter of not thinking.

But Wendy makes a good point. Plenty of people are intolerant of others due to unfair stereotype and stigma. There are threads about the mentally ill that indicate a shocking degree of misinformation and an intolerance not only of the mentally ill but of their rights.

Thus I have two views of intolerance. Intolerance of a person’s actions is acceptable. Intolerance of a person’s viewpoints is likewise somewhat acceptable. But I view intolerance of a person’s rights to be intolerable.

Wendy - I always appreciate what you write.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

Gloria Allred is now involved.

Media circus checklist complete.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

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Rather, she shows that she is part of the one percent who has pieces of metal stuck in her face to express something.

You have no idea whether she was trying to express anything. An awful lot of people wear earrings just because they like the way they look. Maybe she liked the way these piercings looked...seems like the more logical assumption.

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Want to get a face tattoo? Fine! But don’t expect society to yield to you. You’ve demonstrated that you lack the ability to tolerate the status quo of society and chose to draw attention to yourself.

I choose to have tattoos on my arms. Does that mean I'm only partially incapable of conformity? Or rather, are traits such as personal tastes and inherent abilities about as related to each other as critical thinking skills are to flatulence? Because I don't think any jewelry or tattoos (or the lack thereof) indicate an sort of (in)abilities, except possibly the tolerance of pain. To suggest otherwise is pretty elitist, and counter-indicative of deductive ability.

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Also note: I don’t hand out spare change to anybody that has metal in their faces. If you’ve got a couple hundred dollars worth of precious metals in your face, then I think that you can hawk it. Don’t ask me for change when your face has more resale value than my business suit. Perhaps if you spent a less money on facial metal, hair coloring, tattoos and mind altering chemicals you would not only have more money for food and rent, but you could land a better job that paid you more money.

I've yet to come across a panhandler who wasn't at least partially responsible for their own economic situation. I see no reason to treat jewelry decisions as more repugnant than an unwillingness to leave a bottle corked. Simple solution, assume all panhandlers made dumb choices that render them unworthy of assistance.

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I have very little problem showing a person an amount of respect equal to the level of respect the person shows for him or herself. She did not seem to respect herself enough to not OD. Why the heck should I show her more respect and compassion than she showed herself.

To the best of my knowledge, she respected you enough to not publicly criticize your ridiculous fashion choices the day after you died. There's no way of knowing, but it's the logical assumption.

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Her family is deserving of compassion. Her loved ones. But I also cannot help but think that the culture of tolerance and compassion is the sort of hardcore enabling that allowed this woman to off herself.

If her family and loved ones found their way here, how much compassion and respect do you think they'd sense from your post? And what convoluted set of assumptions leads you to believe that a person dying (*possibly* by overdose) is a victim of a tolerant and compassionate society, as opposed to a simple mistake in dose or delivery?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,379]

>I don’t hand out spare change to anybody that has metal in their faces.

Would you hand out spare change to a mother that has earrings? A guy who has a wedding ring? A veteran who is wearing a clean shirt?

[christelsabine 1]

Holy Crab, guy!

Once I said, you're a *shister*. You are not even that.

With that kind of attitude you never would have even made it through 1st exam in my country.

No proof, only prejudice.... and endlessly talking about yourself - You are by far no lawyer.

BTW: You should look for some anger management.



edited for typo

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[billvon 2,379]

And your one warning. Cut it out.

[kallend 1,618]

I am quite sure that the vast majority of women in the USA have piercings, and many little girls too. I expect some of the females in your family do.

Pierced earlobes just don't seem to upset hypocrites quite so much.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

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________________________________________ In Reply To ________________________________________
Rather, she shows that she is part of the one percent who has pieces of metal stuck in her face to express something.
________________________________________

You have no idea whether she was trying to express anything. An awful lot of people wear earrings just because they like the way they look. Maybe she liked the way these piercings looked...seems like the more logical assumption.

Absolutely I am assuming. But I know that society generally views it as more of the deviant side. And whether it is right or wrong, society does not look fondly upon it.


________________________________________

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In Reply To ________________________________________
Want to get a face tattoo? Fine! But don’t expect society to yield to you. You’ve demonstrated that you lack the ability to tolerate the status quo of society and chose to draw attention to yourself.
________________________________________

I choose to have tattoos on my arms. Does that mean I'm only partially incapable of conformity? Or rather, are traits such as personal tastes and inherent abilities about as related to each other as critical thinking skills are to flatulence? Because I don't think any jewelry or tattoos (or the lack thereof) indicate an sort of (in)abilities, except possibly the tolerance of pain. To suggest otherwise is pretty elitist, and counter-indicative of deductive ability.

Understood. I’ve got fellow lawyers with tattoos, piercings, etc. They exist all over. BUT – they generally do so in places that can be concealed. You’ve got them on your arms. Why not your face? Dave – you’re a good guy and a smart guy, and you know that regardless of what a person’s intelligence, etc., are, a tattoo on the face creates an impression on those who first see the person. Piercings on the lips, eyebrows and septum generally create a first impression of what a person is.

As I said, whether it is right or wrong, correct or incorrect, is not the point. The point is that we all KNOW that there are certain forms of appearance that will leave a person out of the running for “mainstream” success. Trust me – I was the guy without tattoos and piercings playing metal guitar. It became somewhat of a comedy bit in and of itself. “Who the hell is that guy?”

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I've yet to come across a panhandler who wasn't at least partially responsible for their own economic situation. I see no reason to treat jewelry decisions as more repugnant than an unwillingness to leave a bottle corked. Simple solution, assume all panhandlers made dumb choices that render them unworthy of assistance.

I don’t. The ones I help are the mentally ill ones who in a large number of circumstances had no choice but were born with an illness. You can tell who they are because: (1) they’ve got all their shit in a shopping cart; (2) they are unkempt and have nothing with regards to putting any effort into their appearance; (3) they generally don’t ask for help; and (4) they smile at the interaction.

The youths sitting on a sidewalk, freshly colored hair, fresh ink (don’t tell me you can’t tell the difference), several piercings, doc marten boots, smoking cigarettes and asking for money? No. If they are wearing more expensive clothes than I am (which is highly likely because I’m a cheap SOB) then I see little reason to help them out.

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To the best of my knowledge, she respected you enough to not publicly criticize your ridiculous fashion choices the day after you died. There's no way of knowing, but it's the logical assumption.

Absolutely. And if I were to die doing something stupid or selfish then I would expect to be called out on it. Like it or not, a person is often defined by how he/she died. Kenneth Pinyan was a smart guy – an engineer and Boeing who was generally a pretty successful and low-key guy. But he’ll always be remembered as the guy who died after being but fucked by a horse. Like it or not, it is not disrespectful to point out that he got killed doing something really stupid.

My criticism was not limited to her fashion choices. That was the minor portion of it. My criticism was mainly at how she offed herself.

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________________________________________ In Reply To ________________________________________
Her family is deserving of compassion. Her loved ones. But I also cannot help but think that the culture of tolerance and compassion is the sort of hardcore enabling that allowed this woman to off herself.
________________________________________

If her family and loved ones found their way here, how much compassion and respect do you think they'd sense from your post?

Not much. Any more than the incidents column is not intended to be a celebration of a person’s life. How respectful is it to write, “He was warned repeatedly about progressing too rapidly.” Etc. Ours is a sport where there is plenty of tough love that is intended to save people’s lives.

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And what convoluted set of assumptions leads you to believe that a person dying (*possibly* by overdose) is a victim of a tolerant and compassionate society, as opposed to a simple mistake in dose or delivery?

You’re correct. Probably not a society so much as a subculture. Had she just been some gal from the suburbs who OD’d (assuming she OD’d) then she would simply be just another lost soul. It’s her apparently self-inflicted death at a political rally that creates the infamy.

Perhaps the two are not related. Perhaps they are. But it’s too bad that I’ve seen so many people like this with my own eyes. A mother who ends up in the hospital because she OD’d at a rave and the grandparents need a guardianship. Or the daughter who ended up arrested for possession of meth (this one I represented). The other one who was arrested for being under the influence of meth. Or the one who asked her parents to take the kids because she wanted to go with her friends to Nevada for Burning Man.

Each of these women had the same things: (1) Under 25; (2) facial piercings; (3) tattoos; and (4) use of illicit drugs. Three of them had hair dyed either jet black (1) or a bright color (2).

Thus, when I saw the picture of that woman I saw a picture of four women I’d seen before. Yes, it is presumptuous of me to make this presumption but I’ve seen it before. And my client let me down and lost her kids because she popped up hot for a urinalysis (meth) three months later.

I DO base my opinion of people based a lot on their looks. Tattoos not so much – it seems most people have them now. But WHERE are the tattoos? Yeah – that says something. (Note – I saw no tattoos on the woman).

Again, like it or not, the way a person presents him or herself is important in society. Stereotyping happens. I do it. We all do it. Right or wrong that’s it. Maybe in the near term, people with facial piercings and/or tattoos will be a more significant portion of the population. But right now, we all know that for a large number of industries, you won’t be taken seriously with that outward appearance.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DesertAttorney 0]

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Holy Crab, guy!

Once I said, you're a *shister*. You are not even that.

With that kind of attitude you never would have even made it through 1st exam in my country.

No proof, only prejudice.... and endlessly talking about yourself - You are by far no lawyer.

BTW: You should look for some anger management.



edited for typo

We have Attorneys in our country. They fight for their clients.

You seem to want Attorneys to be Social Workers. these are two distinct professions...

[lawrocket 3]

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Would you hand out spare change to a mother that has earrings?

Depends. I'd be more likely to find some help for the kid.

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A guy who has a wedding ring?

Depends. What's the rest of the guy look like. I'd consider a 30 year old with a wedding ring differently from a 19 year old with piercings. You know those all came recently.

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A veteran who is wearing a clean shirt?

Again, depends.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[christelsabine 1]

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Holy Crab, guy!

Once I said, you're a *shister*. You are not even that.

With that kind of attitude you never would have even made it through 1st exam in my country.

No proof, only prejudice.... and endlessly talking about yourself - You are by far no lawyer.

BTW: You should look for some anger management.



edited for typo

We have Attorneys in our country. They fight for their clients.

You seem to want Attorneys to be Social Workers. these are two distinct professions...

You do not know what I *seem to want*. I do not know you, even your posts do sound a bit familiar

So just stop assuming something.

We also have attorneys here. They work for their money

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[billvon 2,379]

>>Would you hand out spare change to a mother that has earrings?

>Depends.

Doesn't the fact that she has a couple hundred dollars worth of precious metals stuck in her ears mean that he can just hawk it?

>>A guy who has a wedding ring?

>Depends. What's the rest of the guy look like.

Depends? Doesn't the fact that he has a couple hundred dollars worth of precious metals on his hand mean that he can just hawk it? Why do you make a distinction based on where those precious metals are?

[lawrocket 3]

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I am quite sure that the vast majority of women in the USA have piercings, and many little girls too. I expect some of the females in your family do.

Pierced earlobes just don't seem to upset hypocrites quite so much.

There is little hypocritical about what is generally accepted in society and what isn't. I'm simply saying what society views in general.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

Truth be told, I don't really care about this death one way or another. A LOT of people died this weekend, many of them due to their own choices. My trouble with this thread has been the vigor with which her jewelry has been singled out...who cares? She died. At a protest or not isn't really relevent, but ok, if someone wants to use her as a poster child for the protest, fine. But to jump on her jewelry as if that had something to do with her death? Lame.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kallend 1,618]

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I am quite sure that the vast majority of women in the USA have piercings, and many little girls too. I expect some of the females in your family do.

Pierced earlobes just don't seem to upset hypocrites quite so much.

There is little hypocritical about what is generally accepted in society and what isn't. I'm simply saying what society views in general.

Piercings in general seem quite well accepted by much of American society, and piercings of one gender in two specific places are pretty much accepted by all.

You are really just exhibiting your own prejudices here.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

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Depends? Doesn't the fact that he has a couple hundred dollars worth of precious metals on his hand mean that he can just hawk it? Why do you make a distinction based on where those precious metals are?

As my post explained - how recent it is. If there has been enough recent money for those piercings, tattoos, and hair coloring then I think it's a reasonable inference that he/she is not so badly off.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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But to jump on her jewelry as if that had something to do with her death? Lame.

I see your point. And perhaps I was a bit too rough on her in that regard...

My wife is hotter than your wife.