captain_stan 0 #51 October 26, 2011 QuoteSo what part of what I typed doesn't apply to you? Quotethey just don't want God to be there when they arrive. I don't expect to arrive anywhere when I die, nor do I have any reason to hope or fear that a god will be at any such destination. Although I don't have any reason to think a god exists, I have a particularly strong opinion that I need not fear it if indeed it does. "Christians" who try to incite us to live in fear of their god have ushered many otherwise open-minded folks into the ranks of atheism. But my observation of this behavior doesn't bias me against the existence of any god. Since you asked my opinion, let me put it this way: My opinion of your ideology is similar to your opinion of the Roman Catholic Church. QuoteIn the long war on the truth, the most formidable, relentless and deceptive enemy has been Roman Catholicism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #52 October 26, 2011 Have you ever told a lie? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #53 October 26, 2011 Quote Have you ever told a lie? Is that a rhetorical question? How can I have a meaningful dialog with someone who insists he knows what "everyone wants?" Let me make this easier for both of us--I can't interest myself in hearing the standard "Christian" dogma yet another time. Nor can I think of a good reason to debate your issues. This thread is about agnosticism, not Christianity. Be a good sport and have a go at the atheists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #54 October 27, 2011 . This thread is about agnosticism, not Christianity. Be a good sport and have a go at the atheists. Agnosticism is just a luke warm philosophy for those who have arrested their spiritual development. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodhisattva420 0 #55 October 27, 2011 An agnostic is just an atheist that doesn't want to offend anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #56 October 27, 2011 Quote An agnostic is just an atheist that doesn't want to offend anyone. An agnostic is a believer with commitment issues. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #58 October 27, 2011 Quote that doesn't want to offend anyone. You're gonna have a hard time selling that idea here. There's good evidence to the contrary in my case. It would be more correct to say we're just less interested in arguing or trying to convince others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #59 October 27, 2011 Quote Quote that doesn't want to offend anyone. You're gonna have a hard time selling that idea here. There's good evidence to the contrary in my case. It would be more correct to say we're just less interested in arguing or trying to convince others. Well, at least less argumentative about the nature of god, clearly just as argumentative about the nature of what you think it means to be agnostic. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #60 October 27, 2011 Quote Quote that doesn't want to offend anyone. You're gonna have a hard time selling that idea here. There's good evidence to the contrary in my case. It would be more correct to say we're just less interested in arguing or trying to convince others. But see I could say that about myself as an atheist. I disbelieve what I disbelieve, but I have zero interest in arguing about it or trying to convince others to think the same way. This stereotype that atheists are the proselytizers of the non-believing world is just as broad and inaccurate a brush (IMHO) as saying "All Christians are evangelicals" or "All Muslims are terrorists." When it comes to my atheism, I'm really fucking passive."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlie5 0 #61 October 27, 2011 QuoteAn agnostic is just an atheist that doesn't want to offend anyone. that's bullshit. I'm an agnostic, I think organized religion is fucking horseshit and nothing more than using fear to get their respective flocks in line. You can take that religious dogma and blow it up your ass. Offensive enough? I'm agnostic because I don't for a second think that we can ever 100% prove the existence or lack thereof of a "god" whatever that may be. I'll openly admit that a part of me really hopes that there's more to our existence than our quick blip on the timeline, but I'm not going to live my life around that hope. If there is great, if there isn't, well we'll never know lol. Life's too short to worry about a vindictive god, I'm also of the mindset that if there's something up there it's not a petulant child god that Christians make it out to be, otherwise it's a mega douche. That's my honest take on it. As I've said before, atheist and religious proselytizers can suck a fat one. Keep your beliefs to yourself and leave me the fuck alone.The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #62 October 27, 2011 Atheists are agnostic attention whores Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #63 October 27, 2011 Most agnostics I've met, I wouldn't even call them agnostic. They were just atheists who were thought the fence felt nice and offered them some safety. Many of them use the phrases relating to choosing agnosticism which imply that they are agnostic because you can't disprove God and therefore you can't be 100% sure of it and thus are not atheist. Though I find this pattern of thought flawed, because when you ask most of them if they believe in unicorns or faeries they will say a straight up no, despite the fact that the same rules apply, and if you can't disprove them, then you can't not believe in them if that's your stance for deities.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #64 October 27, 2011 Quote [This stereotype that atheists are the proselytizers of the non-believing world is just as broad and inaccurate a brush .... Well, there is foundation for that stereotyping. We have some really good examples right here in DZ.com. I find the thread title to be a leading one. Will there be a similar thread titled, "Agnostics, why don't you choose to believe?"My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #65 October 27, 2011 Quote that's bullshit. I'm an agnostic, . . . . That's my honest take on it. "Nobody right, nobody wrong...just the way I feel." Your post, sir, is awesome! Holy taters and pass the peas...somebody tellin' it! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #66 October 27, 2011 Quote . This thread is about agnosticism, not Christianity. Be a good sport and have a go at the atheists. Agnosticism is just a luke warm philosophy for those who have arrested their spiritual development. You know how funny that statement is coming from someone who follows blind belief without questioning?Anyway it is nice to see a couple of threads not following the normal religion lines (yet)Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #67 October 27, 2011 You live in an absolute world, don't you? There are many more colors out here than just black and white. "Many of them use the phrases....." So you condemn them all. Great. It's OK....you have a long life ahead of you. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #68 October 27, 2011 Quote You know how funny that statement is coming from someone who follows blind belief without questioning? Uhhhhh, Nigel...I know Max. You may want to re-think that.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #69 October 27, 2011 QuoteThere are many more colors out here than just black and white. Whether or not god exists is a binary question; either he does or doesn't. There are no colors in between.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #70 October 27, 2011 Quote They were just atheists who were thought the fence felt nice and offered them some safety. I already start to dislike all the atheists that use "agnostic(ism)" and "fence" in the same sentence Other then that it's rather strange to assume that a stance that's almost by definition insecure ("I don't know") offers safety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #71 October 27, 2011 It offers them safety in that they still have both options wide open, and unfortunately there are things that happen completely unrelated to the evidence of a God that makes people switch positions quickly. Agnosticism is totally fence sitting, as I mentioned above, people don't have these 1/2 and 1/2 thoughts about other magical or mythological creatures that may exist. You don't see many people saying they're completely open to the existence of unicorns and are just waiting for evidence to prove or disprove before making a decision. No atheist is 100% that there is no God, therefore are all atheists actually agnostic? There is just a different attitude in people when it comes to belief in religion and not religious things. People tend to be far quicker to say "no that doesn't exist" to non-religious things, that hold the same evidence as a deity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #72 October 27, 2011 QuoteIt offers them safety in that they still have both options wide open, BS, an agnostic doesn't have to keep both options WIDE open. An agnostic that thinks there's probably no god, doesn't keep the option "wide" open. Quoteand unfortunately there are things that happen completely unrelated to the evidence of a God that makes people switch positions quickly. ? Quote Agnosticism is totally fence sitting, You call agnosticism fence-sitting, and that's because you don't really understand what agnosticism is. Or even more precise, you're talking about one of the many forms of agnosticism and assume that's the only form. Quotepeople don't have these 1/2 and 1/2 thoughts about other magical or mythological creatures that may exist. You don't see many people saying they're completely open to the existence of unicorns and are just waiting for evidence to prove or disprove before making a decision. a) Apparently you think all agnostics think there's about 50% chance god exists, thus proving my point that you don't really understand what agnosticism is. b) I don't know if somewhere in the universe horselike creatures with a single horn on the head exist, so yes, I'm agnostic towards unicorns. etc. I'm not "completely open" to the possibility, and I'm not waiting for evidence/deem it necessary to decide about it, because I couldn't care less whether unicorns (or deities for that matter) exist or not. QuoteNo atheist is 100% that there is no God, therefore are all atheists actually agnostic? Wrong: strong atheists are completely sure that there isn't a God, weak atheists admit that they can't be 100% sure. Weak atheism can (rightfully) be explained as a form of agnosticism. It's pretty much a tomato tomato issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #73 October 27, 2011 I also figured out what the difference between European and US atheists is: European atheists don't believe in God. US atheists don't believe in God and want to have a fucking medal for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #74 October 27, 2011 QuoteWhether or not god exists is a binary question; either he does or doesn't. There are no colors in between. So is the question of whether Casey Anthony deliberately killed her daughter. Both of these questions have been argued, and some people feel compelled to make an emotional decision to accept an absolute, yes-or-no answer, even though they may never know the truth. To admit that one doesn't have enough information to reach an absolute conclusion is more rational than clinging to an answer that makes us feel good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #75 October 27, 2011 Quote I also figured out what the difference between European and US atheists is: European atheists don't believe in God. US atheists don't believe in God and want to have a fucking medal for it. You'll go far (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
