For the atheists...

[shropshire 0]

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But don't bother - they never listen

+

Of course one wouldn't start such a discussion to get anywhere, one would starts such a discussion for he ensuing shit storm.

+ 1 and We do that job SOooooo well

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

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Yes. I have told lies and God used to see me as a liar. The Bible says that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. However, Jesus Christ stood in my "law place" 2000 years ago and took the eternal punishment for my countless lies upon Himself. That's the point. Now I can be seen as righteous not because of anything I've done or could do but because of what Jesus did in my place. He paid an infinite price for my infinite obligation. Now, it's not that I can't lie anymore but that I try and never lie because of what He has done for me. Repentance and trust in Jesus Christ are needed to appropriate that forgiveness. Until then, you not only stand guilty in the eyes of God but are in fact rebellious enemies. But it doesn't have to end that way. Just some thoughts.!

The big con : christians get a pass from past (and any future) lies because Jesus carries the guilt [shakes head] - Excellent control mechanism!! - bet that's how the priest child molesters get away with it too!!

The bible is full of untruths (lies?) too ...
so how old was Noah ? 950 years old - nonsense
Jesus turned water into wine - nonsense
Jesus walked on water - nonsense
etc.... etc....

oh but these aren't s'posed to be REAL Stories they are just parables so that All of the believers can understand the true meaning behind them - What a crock THAT is - It makes NO SENSE to convey your message to a wider audience in such terms.. the fastest, safest way to get something across to the WHOLE audience is to be literal - to tell it how it is... not wrap the message in riddles. That's THE most ridiculous part of this ridiculous subject.


Another example :
So the story is being told to a peasant nearly 2000 years ago - (so not too bright but average for the time i.e the primary audience) ....
"Um .. this Jesus made a blind man see again "
"wow ...really?"
"Yes"
"wow - so now he can see the beauty in the wold... his wife ... kids.. his sheep and goats ... etc..."
"Oh, well No ... what he did is he made him see the truth in the world.."
"What the fuck are you talking about ?"
"It's a parable"
"A what?"
"A parable... it's a story that I get to tell that helps you understand how brilliant Jesus and god is"
"You're fucking kidding me right?"
"No this is the way to do it.... it's gonna work for 2000 years........ Can't you understand?"
"No ... now fuck off I've got better things to do with my time"

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Coreece 189]

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When challenged you've scurried away from the evidence that addresses your own question refusing to look at it and hiding behind the same crap because you dont like a word I used.

You are the one who failed to admit you were wrong about Jay when called out and you continue to put him on a moral high horse just so you can knock him down.

You can use whatever words you want to describe what it is you think I believe, just try to be more accurate. Saying I believe in zombies is like saying you believe people evolved from a pile of dung. They are both innaccurate and get us nowhere...tho I must admit, a pile of dung is certainly more closely related to primordial soup than a christian is to a zombie...zombies have no spiritual life, they're more closely representative to the spiritually dead living in hell, most likely the result of having evolved from dung.

Zombie

Jesus

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Just who are you kidding? Go watch the video, it answers the very question YOU POSTED.

My question was related to moral/spiritual perfection...I didn't hear Dick talk about that in the video.

I go to science to understand the physical and go to christianity to understand spiritual truth.

I suppose I'm one of those weirdos that can seperate the two.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[StreetScooby 5]

Just my two cents...

I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian church. When I was 16, my goal was to be a preacher. College introduced me to thermodynamics, and then I discovered beer in grad school. After much effort, I managed to reconcile my understanding of thermodynamics with what I still view as personal experiences with God.

I do not see God as a noun, as some being that looks out over me. It makes much more sense to me to see God as a verb; that which is, of which you are a part, whether you want to be or not. Make the most of it, and keep it as positive as you can. Your actions count, both in this life, and any others that may come.

Be happy, try not to worry to much. Be a good person. Be a responsible person. Whether God is a noun, or God is a verb, or neither, it still matters in the here and now.

We are all engines of karma

[JeanJeanie 0]

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"...often...on occasion."

One can only guess on what occasions you do it often.

special occasions

~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK

[JeanJeanie 0]

You are such a troll!
Handsome one at that!

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How did you arrive at the conclusion that there is no god? Was it a sudden thing or was it a slow process? How was it recieved by those closest to you?
Thanks in advance for sharing...

~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK

[dorbie 0]

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Zombie

Jesus

Pages of your crap and it could all have been settled with a google search for man made art. OK, here:

Zombie Jesus

Your objection has shifted from the semantic to the aesthetic, it is stil invalid.

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I suppose I'm one of those weirdos that can seperate the two.

No you just stick a label on bullshit and delude yourself like many others, it's not weird, just flawed thinking.

[Coreece 189]

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No you just stick a label on bullshit and delude yourself like many others, it's not weird, just flawed thinking.

Meh, you should've seen me when I was an athiest...

Any who, I hope your perfect thinking takes you very far in life...godspeed.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[dorbie 0]

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No you just stick a label on bullshit and delude yourself like many others, it's not weird, just flawed thinking.

Meh, you should've seen me when I was an athiest...

Any who, I hope your perfect thinking takes you very far in life...godspeed.

It is because I understand how flawed people are at thinking that I choose science.

Belief without evidence is faith, not reason.

[beowulf 1]

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No you just stick a label on bullshit and delude yourself like many others, it's not weird, just flawed thinking.

Meh, you should've seen me when I was an athiest...

Any who, I hope your perfect thinking takes you very far in life...godspeed.

I am not all that convinced that you were really an atheist.

Atheism is about reasoning. Religions are about faith.

[Coreece 189]

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No you just stick a label on bullshit and delude yourself like many others, it's not weird, just flawed thinking.

Meh, you should've seen me when I was an athiest...

Any who, I hope your perfect thinking takes you very far in life...godspeed.

It is because I understand how flawed people are at thinking that I choose science.

Belief without evidence is faith, not reason.

Well then, apparently you have faith in your perfection...good luck with that.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 189]

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No you just stick a label on bullshit and delude yourself like many others, it's not weird, just flawed thinking.

Meh, you should've seen me when I was an athiest...

Any who, I hope your perfect thinking takes you very far in life...godspeed.

I am not all that convinced that you were really and atheist.

Atheism is about reasoning. Religions are about faith.

No, you're not being reasonable...atheism is about not believing in God.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[beowulf 1]

Ah yes the old semantics argument, rather then trying to understand what I meant.

With any religion when you continually ask how do you know, eventually you arrive at faith. Christianity always claims to have answers when all they really have is faith, belief with out evidence. And there is no evidence to support the existence of any deity. Atheists use reason to discount the existence of any deity.

[Coreece 189]

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Christianity always claims to have answers when all they really have is faith

We understand it's faith, that's why we call it faith...
Through faith we have received personal evidences of it's truth in our own life...

Christianity provides answers to those seeking spiritual life through God where science has failed with it's limitations.

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Atheists use reason to discount the existence of any deity.

Well I don't have the need to discount and supress the natural spiritual desires of my heart, but rather to understand them and apply their meaning in my life.

I'm sorry you have such a problem with that...maybe Ambien will help.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[beowulf 1]

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Through faith we have received personal evidences of it's truth in our own life...

Christianity provides answers to those seeking spiritual life through God where science has failed with it's limitations.

Faith is belief with out evidence.

How do you know there is even a such thing as a "spiritual life"?
How do you know the "answers" are real or even correct if there is no evidence. If there were evidence then you wouldn't need faith.

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Well I don't have the need to discount and supress the natural spiritual desires of my heart, but rather to understand them and apply their meaning in my life.

I'm sorry you have such a problem with that...maybe Ambien will help.

What "natural spiritual desires"? I don't experience that "natural spiritual desires". How do you know it's real?

[Coreece 189]

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If there were evidence then you wouldn't need faith.

The evidence is personal not scientific...in my experience it has been used to strengthen and sustain my faith.

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What "natural spiritual desires"? I don't experience that "natural spiritual desires".

Perhaps someday you will, then you'll know where to go.

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How do you know it's real?

I don't know, it's called faith...that's what we've been talking about, where were you?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[beowulf 1]

No evidence is not personal. If it's only believable by one person then it can't be verified or trusted. The whole point of evidence is so that you can test it and validate it with others to know it's real and valid.

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Perhaps someday you will, then you'll know where to go.

This is a pretty meaningless response. If you can't come up with more then that how do you know that what you believe in is real?

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I don't know, it's called faith...that's what we've been talking about, where were you?

Faith is the same as wishful thinking.

I think deitys were made up by primitive man to explain what they didn't understand. The human mind can come up with all kinds of delusions to support this belief. That is why the scientific process was developed so that we can deal with the minds delusions. Just because you think it's real doesn't mean it is.

[Coreece 189]

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The whole point of evidence is so that you can test it and validate it with others to know it's real and valid.

Well call it what you want, this isn't a matter of science on science terms...It's a personal matter. I already said this evidence wasn't scientific...it doesn't matter. There is evidence that I have faith and that faith has been tested. My personal experience of faith has been shared and validated by many people with striking similarities...and don't throw that agumentum ad populum crap at me...I don't care, this isn't about proving God...and certainly not by your standards.

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What "natural spiritual desires"? I don't experience that "natural spiritual desires". How do you know it's real?

Perhaps someday you will, then you'll know where to go.

This is a pretty meaningless response. If you can't come up with more then that how do you know that what you believe in is real?

I don't need to know...the undeniable desire in my heart to seek the God I see in creation and beyond is real enough...It's all I need.

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I don't know, it's called faith...that's what we've been talking about, where were you?

Faith is the same as wishful thinking.

Well wishful thinking never really worked for me...

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I think deitys were made up by primitive man to explain what they didn't understand.

Ya, people think a lot...they say alot, especially people that shove the idea of irrefutable proof down everyones throat. They say things like faith is a physiological ailment, while others will say it's an evolutionary benefit...well how about taking your own advice and prove it? How do you know?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[beowulf 1]

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Ya, people think a lot...they say alot, especially people that shove the idea of irrefutable proof down everyones throat. They say things like faith is a physiological ailment, while others will say it's an evolutionary benefit...well how about taking your own advice and prove it? How do you know?

There isn't any way to "know", but it makes much more logical sense then does the existence of deitys of which there is no evidence.

[popsjumper 2]

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And there is no evidence to support the existence of any deity. Atheists use reason to discount the existence of any deity.

Ahhhh, yes. The old show me the proof trick.

You are not alone. Look around, there's a lot of...ummmm...misguided people, out there with you on that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[beowulf 1]

What is misguided about that?

[popsjumper 2]

Evicdently, you got into the game in the late innings and missed the first half. During the break in between periods, it was shown that asking for physical proof of a non-physical anything is just plain stooopid.

Limiting your faith to the physical world is just that....limiting.

Do you really think that scientists have never made an advancement without having some intangible faith that there was something else to be discovered?

Do you really think that all scientific discoveries we accomplished purely by chance?

If you did not have advanced proof that something exists, what in the world would make you go search for it? You don't believe in it so why would you go seek it?

There was a memo.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[beowulf 1]

There is a difference between believing in something and working to validate your belief and believing in something and not looking to validate it in any way.

Religion and deitys fall into the second one. They just believe with out any evidence and are not looking for any evidence. That is faith.

Your apparent belief that deitys are simply a discovery waiting to happen is highly unlikely since no one is searching for any evidence because it would negate the need for faith.

I am open to any evidence of any deity and to date there is none that can be tested or reproduced. Not asking for evidence before basing your whole life on something is in my opinion insane.

[popsjumper 2]

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There is a difference between believing in something and working to validate your belief and believing in something and not looking to validate it in any way.

Religion and deitys fall into the second one. They just believe with out any evidence and are not looking for any evidence. That is faith.

Are you now saying that your criteria is based on whether or not someone is "looking for evidence"?

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Your apparent belief that deitys are simply a discovery waiting to happen

Apparently you extrapolated incorrectly.

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I am open to any evidence of any deity and to date there is none that can be tested or reproduced.

You don't get it yet?
To repeat: Asking for physical proof of a non-physical anything is stooopid.

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Not asking for evidence before basing your whole life on something is in my opinion insane.

IMO, depending on evidence beforehand is extremely limiting.

Surely, you are not really all that black and white, are you? You've never acted on faith alone? Really?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[beowulf 1]

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Are you now saying that your criteria is based on whether or not someone is "looking for evidence"?

No

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Asking for physical proof of a non-physical anything is stooopid.

I disagree. Deitys need to have evidence to even suggest that they might exist before I will even consider basing my life around them. The religious use very poor reasoning and often down right lies to support their beliefs. Just go to the Answers in Genesis to see the many lies and misdirection that is put out there by the religious.

There is no non-physical anything. Spiritualism or super natural are just things that people made up. It's just silly to believe these things with out any evidence to even suggest they are real. Show me some evidence to suggest their real. Use proper critical thinking. Otherwise I will laugh off your beliefs.