Question for cops, lawyers, Aggiedave

[DesertAttorney 0]

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I don't like cops. I've never even had a moving violation. But when I have been stopped, I've been courteous and honest.

Because a cop has power and I'd prefer he not exercise it. Piss off a cop and a Constitutional violation may ensue. Who knows, a few months and a few grand later and it might all be settled.

Naw. I'd rather just suck it up and let the cop see I haven't done anything. IT's why they let me go. I don't bitch or complain.

Pretty much. Being a wiseass towards a cop who's simply doing his job will increase the likelihood that he/she will find something you can be ticketed for.

While doing approximately 10 mph over the limit, I was pulled over in AZ. At the time I had my Glock in a holster on my left hip, pursuant to AZ's Concealed weapon law, later the state's Constitutional Carry law.

I promptly pulled over, turned the dome light on, put my hands on the top of the wheel, and did not move until the police officer was at the window (I drive a convertible).

I did only what the cop told me to, and told him "Officer, I have a concealed weapon on my left hip. It is a Glock, it has a full magazine, and I am a CCW permit holder."

The police officer had me open the door and exit the car with my hands in view at all times.

He removed the weapon from my person, ejected the magazine, cleared it, and took the slide off.

He ran my info, saw I had no warrants and a relatively clean driving record.

He asked me to step back into the car. He handed my license/rego/ins card, followed by the frame, slide, and magazine of my Glock, as well as the one loose round of ammunition.

He thanked me for the honesty, gave me a verbal warning, and sent me on my way with his card to contact him in case my boss busted my hump for being 15 minutes late.

A lot easier than being an arrogant little "fight the power" douche.

But then again, I didn't have drugs on me/in the car, and my license and registration were both current...

[DesertAttorney 0]

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Many "real criminals" have been stopped on traffic offenses.

That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh--he had no license plate on his car.

[rushmc 18]

hey Keith!

How are you doing
Interesting question and thread

Take care buddy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,121]

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Someone this summer actually called to complain that I was all sweaty looking while making a contact.

Did your eyes roll, or did the words "stupid MF" escape your lips when discussing this in-house at the station?

I sure hope so.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AggieDave 6]

As long as you've known me, have you ever seen me roll my eyes?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[biplane_dude 0]

Been watching this thread and I have to admit the answers have been extremely accurate and I understand those who have a cop/phobic or cop/dislike mentality. Unfortunately law enforcement is the parental unit of society and no one likes being told to go to the adult analogous of their room (jail).

Just to throw another variable into the mix....

The department I work for has a new video camera/computer system. The system has four cameras posted on the corners of the squad that search the surrounding enviornment and looks specifically for license plates. When the cam finds one, it sends the info to the computer and runs it through the registration, warrants, etc. If a "hit" pops, it alerts the officer who can make a traffic stop.

The system is fast enough that it can check a lines of vehicles parked along the roadway and in traffic while the officer drives by. The system is extremely expensive and the department wasn't interested in buying any until the manufacturer allowed them to borrow it for a couple of months. In the first month it found enough stolen vehicles (from virtually every state in the lower 48), suspended drivers, expired registrations, etc to virtually pay for the unit in about 2 months.

Needless to say the department bought one and is working on the financing for 2 more.

I can't say this is the end all of crime fighting though. This unit is extremely expensive and I don't see a small town making it worth their while. Our department happens to be in one of the top ten most dangerous cities in the US.

Life's the Pitts then you jump one.

[billvon 2,396]

>This unit is extremely expensive and I don't see a small town making it worth their while.

That sort of technology is going to get very cheap very fast, though - so it will be here before you know it.

[kallend 1,623]

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Many "real criminals" have been stopped on traffic offenses.

That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh--he had no license plate on his car.

And they took him into custody because he had a gun, not because of a traffic offense.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Many "real criminals" have been stopped on traffic offenses.

That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh--he had no license plate on his car.

And they took him into custody because he had a gun, not because of a traffic offense.

Which is immaterial if he hadn't been stopped in the first place.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,623]

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The solution is to not be a dumbfuck and break the law.

Nothing to worry about if you've done nothing wrong. Didn't Stalin use that logic? Or was it Mao? Or the Stasi? Or all three, maybe.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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Many "real criminals" have been stopped on traffic offenses.

That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh--he had no license plate on his car.

And they took him into custody because he had a gun, not because of a traffic offense.

Which is immaterial if he hadn't been stopped in the first place.

And he wouldn't have been arrested if he hadn't had a gun.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AndyBoyd 0]

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I've done nothing wrong, the cops have no business stopping me. Go find some criminals. Leave me alone.

Driving a car with expired plates/tags whatever is doing something wrong. Seems unreasonable to expect to be left alone.

I agree. I was talking about the specific situation mentioned by the OP -- where individual A is driving a car and not violating any laws, but A is pulled over because he is driving individual B's car and B has a suspended driver's license. In that case, A is pulled over having done nothing wrong. In the situation you describe I agree that it would be unreasonable not to expect to get pulled over, because it is clear there is a violation of the law. In the OP's case, where the cop is not sure who is driving, it is much less clear there has been a violation. And yes, I know that cops can have probable cause without being 100% certain a crime has occurred. I just think that in the OP's case, giving cops PC in that situation gives them too much freedom to pull folks over. That kind of power can easily lead to abuse.

[mnealtx 0]

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Many "real criminals" have been stopped on traffic offenses.

That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh--he had no license plate on his car.

And they took him into custody because he had a gun, not because of a traffic offense.

Which is immaterial if he hadn't been stopped in the first place.

And he wouldn't have been arrested if he hadn't had a gun.

Which is STILL immaterial if he hadn't been stopped in the first place.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Elite_Marksman 0]

In the grand scheme, allowing police to pull you over because the registered owner's license is expire is insignificant. If an officer really wanted to stop that particular vehicle, he just has to follow it for a mile or two, the driver will do SOMETHING wrong. Maybe you put your turn signal on 50 feet before a turn instead of 100, or you're doing 29 in a 25, you roll through a stop sign at .001 mph...

[DesertAttorney 0]

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Many "real criminals" have been stopped on traffic offenses.

That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh--he had no license plate on his car.

And they took him into custody because he had a gun, not because of a traffic offense.

Which is immaterial if he hadn't been stopped in the first place.

And he wouldn't have been arrested if he hadn't had a gun.

And?

[champu 1]

When I was in undergrad in Illinois I was pulled over after proceeding when the light turned green at a traffic signal because, "my license plate frame was partially obscuring my registration sticker"

[AndyBoyd 0]

I agree that cops can pretty much pull over anyone for the slightest infraction. And that kind of power can lead to abuse as well. I guess all I'm saying is that we don't need to make it easier than it already is for cops to pull people over. At least in your scenario, the driver has clearly violated the law somehow. In the OP's scenario, the driver may or may not have violated the law, and the cop won't know for sure until he pulls the vehicle over. I'm not convinced there should be PC in that situation, but I realize the law says otherwise. I get it, I just don't agree.

[Amazon 7]

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In the grand scheme, allowing police to pull you over because the registered owner's license is expire is insignificant. If an officer really wanted to stop that particular vehicle, he just has to follow it for a mile or two, the driver will do SOMETHING wrong. Maybe you put your turn signal on 50 feet before a turn instead of 100, or you're doing 29 in a 25, you roll through a stop sign at .001 mph...

Welcome to America.. Not really the Land of the Free and now home of the brave face in our police state.

[AggieDave 6]

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In the grand scheme, allowing police to pull you over because the registered owner's license is expire is insignificant. If an officer really wanted to stop that particular vehicle, he just has to follow it for a mile or two, the driver will do SOMETHING wrong. Maybe you put your turn signal on 50 feet before a turn instead of 100, or you're doing 29 in a 25, you roll through a stop sign at .001 mph...

Welcome to America.. Not really the Land of the Free and now home of the brave face in our police state.

Yup, since Peace Officers write the laws...

They don't? Well, we have no say in how those laws get passed, right?

Oh, we do.

Ok, well there has to be someone we can blame, right?

Its ourselves? Damn.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Amazon 7]

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In the grand scheme, allowing police to pull you over because the registered owner's license is expire is insignificant. If an officer really wanted to stop that particular vehicle, he just has to follow it for a mile or two, the driver will do SOMETHING wrong. Maybe you put your turn signal on 50 feet before a turn instead of 100, or you're doing 29 in a 25, you roll through a stop sign at .001 mph...

Welcome to America.. Not really the Land of the Free and now home of the brave face in our police state.

Yup, since Peace Officers write the laws...

They don't? Well, we have no say in how those laws get passed, right?

Oh, we do.

Ok, well there has to be someone we can blame, right?

Its ourselves? Damn.

Policework.. became a revenue generation device long ago Dave..

[AggieDave 6]

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Policework.. became a revenue generation device long ago Dave..

I'll remember that if I ever have to cut the body of a 17 year old girl out of her car and tell her parents she is dead because she rolled a stop sign while on her phone.

Wait, that happened....

Ok, I'll remember that it is about money if I ever have to finger print a dead body to find out the identity because another driver was going a little over the speed limit.

Wait, that happened too...

Ok, then I'll think about writing more tickets to generate revenue that the police department doesn't get (the state gets the majority of the fines gathered and the city gets the rest, the police department receives no direct funds) if I ever work an accident where a someone with an expired vehicle inspection due to not passing for worn brakes, can't stop and bounces a person through their windshield.

Wait, that also happened...

Yup, money is obviously the motivating factor behind Peace Officers writing tickets...except that it isn't.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Elite_Marksman 0]

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In the grand scheme, allowing police to pull you over because the registered owner's license is expire is insignificant. If an officer really wanted to stop that particular vehicle, he just has to follow it for a mile or two, the driver will do SOMETHING wrong. Maybe you put your turn signal on 50 feet before a turn instead of 100, or you're doing 29 in a 25, you roll through a stop sign at .001 mph...

Welcome to America.. Not really the Land of the Free and now home of the brave face in our police state.

I wouldn't exactly call being obligated to follow basic traffic regulations in order to have the continued PRIVILEGE to drive a police state.

Just because everybody does 5-10 over the speed limit doesn't mean it's right. The speed limit is exactly that, the MAXIMUM permitted speed. People that don't use their turn signals or activate them too late are a common cause of accidents, and the line has to be drawn somewhere. In most places, that line is 100 feet, unless you want to give police even more leeway and have the laws say that the signal must be given with "appropriate warning" and let the officers decide what appropriate is.

As for the stop sign, is getting a ticket for rolling through a stop stupid? Yes, but it's not a yield sign, its a STOP sign, therefore you must STOP.

That said, I had to recently fight a red light camera because I made a right on red. The camera thankfully provided video and it was quite obvious that my wheels were not turning at some point before I entered the intersection. The PD told me that you have to "stop for 5 seconds." I called his BS and contested the ticket in court, since nowhere in NJSA Title 39 does it say I have to stop for 5 seconds, it says I need to come to a complete stop and yield to any traffic. There was no traffic, I did stop, judge dismissed the cite.

[Amazon 7]

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In the grand scheme, allowing police to pull you over because the registered owner's license is expire is insignificant. If an officer really wanted to stop that particular vehicle, he just has to follow it for a mile or two, the driver will do SOMETHING wrong. Maybe you put your turn signal on 50 feet before a turn instead of 100, or you're doing 29 in a 25, you roll through a stop sign at .001 mph...

Welcome to America.. Not really the Land of the Free and now home of the brave face in our police state.

I wouldn't exactly call being obligated to follow basic traffic regulations in order to have the continued PRIVILEGE to drive a police state.

Just because everybody does 5-10 over the speed limit doesn't mean it's right. The speed limit is exactly that, the MAXIMUM permitted speed. People that don't use their turn signals or activate them too late are a common cause of accidents, and the line has to be drawn somewhere. In most places, that line is 100 feet, unless you want to give police even more leeway and have the laws say that the signal must be given with "appropriate warning" and let the officers decide what appropriate is.

As for the stop sign, is getting a ticket for rolling through a stop stupid? Yes, but it's not a yield sign, its a STOP sign, therefore you must STOP.

That said, I had to recently fight a red light camera because I made a right on red. The camera thankfully provided video and it was quite obvious that my wheels were not turning at some point before I entered the intersection. The PD told me that you have to "stop for 5 seconds." I called his BS and contested the ticket in court, since nowhere in NJSA Title 39 does it say I have to stop for 5 seconds, it says I need to come to a complete stop and yield to any traffic. There was no traffic, I did stop, judge dismissed the cite.

BULLSHIT... I think we need a website... of video's of COPS breaking every fucking traffic law on a daily basis... They are special.. they get to be some of the worst drivers on the damn road.. DAILY... and doing it.. because they can.

Face it.. abuse of police powers in our police state is rampant. Too many of them are adrenaline junkies that get off on the power of the fights they in many cases.. as seen on youtube... instigate.. because they can. a BULLY is a BULLY is a BULLY.

They need to be reigned in.. the supposedly 90% of good cops... BULLSHIT.. I think its more like 50% that need to be fucking locked up for crimes against the peoople they were hired to SERVE and PROTECT.

[jgoose71 0]

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BULLSHIT... I think we need a website... of video's of COPS breaking every fucking traffic law on a daily basis... They are special.. they get to be some of the worst drivers on the damn road.. DAILY... and doing it.. because they can.

Face it.. abuse of police powers in our police state is rampant. Too many of them are adrenaline junkies that get off on the power of the fights they in many cases.. as seen on youtube... instigate.. because they can. a BULLY is a BULLY is a BULLY.

They need to be reigned in.. the supposedly 90% of good cops... BULLSHIT.. I think its more like 50% that need to be fucking locked up for crimes against the peoople they were hired to SERVE and PROTECT.

Well, a lot of us would like to, but as long as they have strong union lawyers and an unfair advantage in the legal system with there making of their own rules because of collective bargaining rights, that will never happen.

Just ask Palin, you can't fire bad cops, oh, wait, if it happened to Palin it was justified. Carry on, nothing to see here

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Kennedy 0]

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You are missing the point of Iowa's question. You could be following the law entirely and get pulled over if, for example, you are driving your buddy's car and his license is suspended. Your buddy is the "dumbfuck" who broke the law, but you, who are not breaking the law, get pulled over. Most people don't like to be stopped by the police when they have done nothing wrong.

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We are veering into SC territory here, and the mo
ds may move this thread. Which is not such a bad thing. It's an interesting issue.

I personally don't want the police stopping me if I've done nothing wrong. I don't want a "have a nice day" from a cop after being pulled over and having to show my license and insurance card. I'd rather the cop left me alone if I was doing nothing wrong. My guess is that most people feel the same way. But the law as it stands is that there is PC in such a situation. And maybe you are OK with being stopped by the police when you haven't done anything wrong. The usual idea, though, is that we don't allow cops to hassle people who haven't broken the law. I concede that there is PC here, I just don't like it.

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If I've done nothing wrong, I don't want to have to deal with the cops. And, more importantly, if I've done nothing wrong, the cops have no business stopping me. Go find some criminals. Leave me alone.

Do you want law enforcement officers to investigate possible violations of the law? Or would you rather they take no action whatsoever until they are certain beyond a reasonable doubt that they are seeing a violation?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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