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Kennedy

Gotta Love Those Judges

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Helena shooting victim had just filed for divorce, sought protection from wife

HELENA - A Helena man who was shot to death Thursday morning was denied an order of protection last month and filed for divorce two days before his estranged wife was charged with killing him.

The Independent Record reports 48-year-old Joseph Andrew Gable asked District Judge Dorothy McCarter for a temporary order of protection from Michelle Coller Gable on Sept. 20, alleging she was stalking him.

He said Michelle Gable had entered his apartment and started a confrontation in which she threw a laptop computer down the stairs.

McCarter denied the request, writing: "No personal danger or threat involved."

Michelle Gable is charged with two counts of deliberate homicide in the death of her husband and his female acquaintance at his apartment.


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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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Meanwhile, I had a judge explain to me, "Well, I won't ever read about myself in the paper after an incident that I declined a TRO."

No use even defending TRO's with most judges...



I blame the double standard of society that generally speaking only the woman is deserving of protection.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Helena shooting victim had just filed for divorce, sought protection from wife

HELENA - A Helena man who was shot to death Thursday morning was denied an order of protection last month and filed for divorce two days before his estranged wife was charged with killing him.

The Independent Record reports 48-year-old Joseph Andrew Gable asked District Judge Dorothy McCarter for a temporary order of protection from Michelle Coller Gable on Sept. 20, alleging she was stalking him.

He said Michelle Gable had entered his apartment and started a confrontation in which she threw a laptop computer down the stairs.

McCarter denied the request, writing: "No personal danger or threat involved."

Michelle Gable is charged with two counts of deliberate homicide in the death of her husband and his female acquaintance at his apartment.



Common sense says that since she was willing and able to commit a premeditated double murder, violating a TRO would mean very little to her.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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Helena shooting victim had just filed for divorce, sought protection from wife

HELENA - A Helena man who was shot to death Thursday morning was denied an order of protection last month and filed for divorce two days before his estranged wife was charged with killing him.

The Independent Record reports 48-year-old Joseph Andrew Gable asked District Judge Dorothy McCarter for a temporary order of protection from Michelle Coller Gable on Sept. 20, alleging she was stalking him.

He said Michelle Gable had entered his apartment and started a confrontation in which she threw a laptop computer down the stairs.

McCarter denied the request, writing: "No personal danger or threat involved."

Michelle Gable is charged with two counts of deliberate homicide in the death of her husband and his female acquaintance at his apartment.



Common sense says that since she was willing and able to commit a premeditated double murder, violating a TRO would mean very little to her.



The article doesn't really give us enough detail to know whether it was premeditated or not. There's nothing in the article that says HOW the murder was committed, like with a weapon she carried to the scene.

It's entirely possible the chick showed up to just talk to the guy, maybe try to have reconciliation sex with him and only flipped out when she discovered he already had a reserve packed, grabbed one of HIS guns and started shooting.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but there's no way of knowing what actually did happen from reading that article.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Helena shooting victim had just filed for divorce, sought protection from wife

HELENA - A Helena man who was shot to death Thursday morning was denied an order of protection last month and filed for divorce two days before his estranged wife was charged with killing him.

The Independent Record reports 48-year-old Joseph Andrew Gable asked District Judge Dorothy McCarter for a temporary order of protection from Michelle Coller Gable on Sept. 20, alleging she was stalking him.

He said Michelle Gable had entered his apartment and started a confrontation in which she threw a laptop computer down the stairs.

McCarter denied the request, writing: "No personal danger or threat involved."

Michelle Gable is charged with two counts of deliberate homicide in the death of her husband and his female acquaintance at his apartment.



Common sense says that since she was willing and able to commit a premeditated double murder, violating a TRO would mean very little to her.



The article doesn't really give us enough detail to know whether it was premeditated or not. There's nothing in the article that says HOW the murder was committed, like with a weapon she carried to the scene.

It's entirely possible the chick showed up to just talk to the guy, maybe try to have reconciliation sex with him and only flipped out when she discovered he already had a reserve packed, grabbed one of HIS guns and started shooting.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but there's no way of knowing what actually did happen from reading that article.



Well, since they were shot to death it is highly doubtful she shot them with a knife from the kitchen.
Just as unlikely she picked the gun up at his place. Far more likely she took it with her, hence, premeditation.
Of course, they may have been practicing a three-way when she flipped out, ran to the kitchen, grabbed the first Ginsu knife she found and shot them with it. But I doubt it.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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well probably the local judicial, like everything else has had their budget slashed, so no one to enforce such an order.

I am sure that the Judge realizes that too and is probably under a lot of pressures daily to make these decisions. Topeka KS for example.

All the money that could be paying for local safety, security and such is being spent daily fighting wars instead. 'Homeland Security' has no meaning at 'home' apparently.

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Meanwhile, I had a judge explain to me, "Well, I won't ever read about myself in the paper after an incident that I declined a TRO."

No use even defending TRO's with most judges...



Agreed re challenging an OoP-less than a 50% success rate is the norm.

Not so much on getting them in the first place. Most judges I have argued in front of consistently err on the side of granting the OoP, lest their name be splashed on the Morning News after someone kills the party previously denied an OoP...

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well probably the local judicial, like everything else has had their budget slashed, so no one to enforce such an order.

I am sure that the Judge realizes that too and is probably under a lot of pressures daily to make these decisions. Topeka KS for example.

All the money that could be paying for local safety, security and such is being spent daily fighting wars instead. 'Homeland Security' has no meaning at 'home' apparently.



Throw more money at the problem and it will go away is the typical liberal solution to everything.

How would more money have helped here? Would it have allowed more police officers so they could follow this woman around24 hours a day to make sure she didn't kill her husband? Please explain.

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well probably the local judicial, like everything else has had their budget slashed,



Don't hide behind probably. If their budget was slashed say so. If it wasn't, then you're lying. If you're to lazy to check, then just don't fling it out there and hope it sticks.

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so no one to enforce such an order



What has the court got to do with enforcing an order, that's what law enforcement is for.

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I am sure that the Judge realizes that too and is probably under a lot of pressures daily to make these decisions. Topeka KS for example.



You really are a master at rationalizing away anyone's shortcomings, unless you think their decisions are guided by principles you don't share. The judge was wrong. Don't make excuses for him when you don't know what was in his head. It could be as simple as sexism or a faulty grasp of the law. Or it could be very complex and justified. But I doubt the latter.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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You really are a master at rationalizing away anyone's shortcomings, unless you think their decisions are guided by principles you don't share. The judge was wrong.

Don't make excuses for him when you don't know what was in his head.

It could be as simple as sexism or a faulty grasp of the law. Or it could be very complex and justified. But I doubt the latter.



Ironic that you would hammer him and then do the same.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I was not making excuses for the judge or his decision. The TRO should have been issued, maybe I should clarify that. I was however most definitely expressing some possible other cause/effect relationships as to why society makes such decisions, in support of your

"gotta love those judges" original post.

chill the fuck out. If you think everything is black and white, then you are naive as you assume me to be.....

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It could be as simple as sexism or a faulty grasp of the law.



Don't hide behind probably could. If their budget was slashed it was sexism or a faulty grasp of the law say so. If it wasn't, then you're lying. If you're to lazy to check, then just don't fling it out there and hope it sticks.

thanks for helping me make my point.

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The judge was wrong.



We don't know this. Was there evidence sufficient for the TRO at the initial hearing? Was there a failure to issue the TRO ex parte? Or was the TRO dismissed because of a lack of evidence or failure to appear at a noticed hearing?

We don't know. This is where it gets tricky, and second-guessing a judge due to hindsight is something that even I have problems with.

Note: The Castle Rock case said that police departments don't have to enforce TROs.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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I am sure that the Judge realizes that too and is probably under a lot of pressures daily to make these decisions. Topeka KS for example.

All the money that could be paying for local safety, security and such is being spent daily fighting wars instead



Topeka KS is fighting a war? Where?
We are all engines of karma

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Most OOPs are issued ex parte. It's just easier. AZ allows for a hearing within 10 days of requesting one.

Again, put yourself in the Judge's seat--you really want your name in the paper when the Plaintiff who was denied an OOP gets killed after you turn it down?

Hell, even admitting to snatching something out of the Plaintiff's hands is enough to uphold it.

The trick is getting it thrown out as to the minor child in common that one parent usually includes on it. That way they don't stack the deck in the ensuing custody battle by being the sole parent for months...

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Throw more money at the problem and it will go away is the typical liberal solution to everything.



That's not even sequitur to the comment you were responding to. Seriously: your constant lowbrow cheap-shots at liberals, at every excuse, are a sorry advertisement for your level of intelligence.

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Topeka does not have the money to prosecute spousal abuse cases, so they stopped doing it. i.e. an example of budgetary issues influencing 'right and wrong'



(A) Judges and prosecutors are not the same thing. A decision by prosecutors has no effect on decisions by judges. Enforcement of the order is also separate from the court. Do not mix them together as "the system". Easch is responsible for their own part.

(B) Budgets have nothing to do with right and wrong.

(C) This was not a budget issue. The man brought his case to court. The courts time and resources were already used. The judge made a piss-poor decision.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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Throw more money at the problem and it will go away is the typical liberal solution to everything.



That's not even sequitur to the comment you were responding to. Seriously: your constant lowbrow cheap-shots at liberals, at every excuse, are a sorry advertisement for your level of intelligence.



I'm pretty sure the irony of your personal attack is lost on you.

And don't blame me if you are easily influenced.

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