Alabama loses workers as immagration law passes

[tkhayes 125]

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Doesn't someone have to break the law first before you can be arrested? Unless you are suggesting some massive conspiracy between police officers and those who run the prisons.

you're right, the system is infallible.....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hduSAjtNhXUnEMkNtRK9qTX42cYQ

all works great until someone gets greedy - which is usually what happens inevitably when capitalism is introduced to the equation.

No of course it is not 'all' like that, but it gives the prison owners a great incentive to MAINTAIN a prison population. If the government is running the prisons, their goal is to 'empty' the prisons.

The motivation for prisons should not be profit - it is a social equation

oh there I go again, talking about the good of mankind over the economy - what was I thinking.....

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Doesn't someone have to break the law first before you can be arrested?

No - being arrested does not mean that you've broken any laws - It's up to the courts to decided that.

Your right, lets amend that to say that you have to have been adjudged to have broken the law to end up in prisons. Because of course that was my main point.

Whoops still NO - you can be held in prison (on Remand) pending the trial

Nope, you can be held in jail. You only go to prison after being convicted.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Doesn't someone have to break the law first before you can be arrested? Unless you are suggesting some massive conspiracy between police officers and those who run the prisons.

you're right, the system is infallible.....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hduSAjtNhXUnEMkNtRK9qTX42cYQ

all works great until someone gets greedy - which is usually what happens inevitably when capitalism is introduced to the equation.

No of course it is not 'all' like that, but it gives the prison owners a great incentive to MAINTAIN a prison population. If the government is running the prisons, their goal is to 'empty' the prisons.

The motivation for prisons should not be profit - it is a social equation

oh there I go again, talking about the good of mankind over the economy - what was I thinking.....

I'm pretty sure a lot more people have been unjustly imprisoned under left-wing ideology (communism) than have ever been under Capitalism.

[masterrig 1]

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Xenophobia in Alabama. Who'd-a thunk it?

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Xena-phobia

She was HOT!!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Or are you OK with people identified with the drug and kidnapping rackets Mexico freely going across our borders?

Yes: those are exactly the same people who work on farms picking lettuce for 10 hours a day and in factories.

Nice strawman..

And they do a great job building or fixing homes. When I had my roof redone via Home Depot, the contractor had a team of Mexicans. Did my entire roof in one day, over 2500 sq ft. Looks awesome. They are usually more dependable than other races, plus even if they are paid below minimum wages, it's still more money than they could ever earn IN Mexico, so they are happy to earn it.

I would prefer, however, that they become legal immigrants and pay their fucking taxes like we do, because a lot of our tax money goes into covering social services for them.

On the other side... I've seen new homes built in subdivisions in my area, by illegal alien labor and in six months, they were falling apart. I'm tired of my tax dollars giving free breakfasts and lunches to illegal kids at our schools and free medical services to illegals. You're absolutely correct... it WOULD be nice to see illegals paying for services you and I have to pay for. What really gets me is, they drive new Escalades, pick-ups and you name it. Then too, why shouldn't they... as long as we're sucker enough to keep the hand-outs flowing in their direction.


Chuck

[tkhayes 125]

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Or are you OK with people identified with the drug and kidnapping rackets Mexico freely going across our borders?

Are u assuming that this immigration bill will stop or even 'slow down' that?

[tkhayes 125]

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I'm pretty sure a lot more people have been unjustly imprisoned under left-wing ideology (communism) than have ever been under Capitalism.

I'm pretty sure that unjustly imprisoning people in any ideology is still WRONG.

Not to mention that you have offered no statistics to back your claim. You actually have no idea, but I am equally as sure as you are that privatizing prisons will INCREASE the number of people unjustly imprisoned.

[mnealtx 0]

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Not to mention that you have offered no statistics to back your claim.

Given that your screed against Alabama, Arizona, Texas and Florida uses 'proof' from California, Pennsylvania and a contract with the Feds, you might want to re-think the use of 'no statistics to back your claim' bit, don't you think?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm pretty sure a lot more people have been unjustly imprisoned under left-wing ideology (communism) than have ever been under Capitalism.

I'm pretty sure that unjustly imprisoning people in any ideology is still WRONG.

Not to mention that you have offered no statistics to back your claim. You actually have no idea, but I am equally as sure as you are that privatizing prisons will INCREASE the number of people unjustly imprisoned.

Well, lets go ahead and add the number of people put to death under communist regimes vs Conservative ones. I'm pretty sure there's no comparison. I'm also pretty sure the number of people falsely imprisoned by you communists has a direct relation to the tens of million your ilk has put to death.

Serious, to claim more people have been imprisoned and/or put to death by conservative regimes as opposed to communist ones is pretty laughable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

I tried to find some stats about the number of people put to death unders consrvative regimes to try and be fair but.....I couldn't find any.

[tkhayes 125]

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Serious, to claim more people have been imprisoned and/or put to death by conservative regimes as opposed to communist ones....

I made no such claim. you inferred it.

So I will infer that you assume that as long as we are just slightly better than 'communism,', then it must be OK.

It is still wrong.

I am not talking about communist regimes. I am talking about American society and the problem with privatizing the prison system.

So honestly - stop trying to find the stats, they are useless in the argument. I am not interested in death penalty, not communism. I am looking into why we somehow need to privatize the prison system and thus perhaps open the door to corruption and greed driving he prison system instead of rehab and punishment.

[tkhayes 125]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/deaths-of-8-children-put-hillsborough-kids-inc-in-limbo/1195717

While we are at it, let's continue to privatize child welfare as well.

Hell we have pretty much 'privatized' the legislative system anyway....

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/15/alec_exposed_state_legislative_bills_drafted

[Gravitymaster 0]

Sorry, I just thought it was pretty interesting that someone who subscribes to a Death-Cult ideology that has been responsible for the deaths of over 100 million innocent people would have so much fear of a prison system run for profit.

Unless you think our current prison system, run by the government, is a shining example of non-corruption and efficiency, then why not try a different approach? Perhaps setting goals and rewarding based on acheiving them can reduce the amount of violence, rape, drug addiction, gang activity etc. that goes on in our current system. What we have now could definitely be improved.

[tkhayes 125]

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then why not try a different approach?

We are already trying the different approach (privatization) and I am arguing that it is no better, and possibly worse.

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Perhaps setting goals and rewarding based on acheiving them can reduce the amount of violence, rape, drug addiction, gang activity etc. that goes on in our current system. What we have now could definitely be improved.

no argument from me, but we are not. Plenty of models out there that work better but as Americans, we refuse to believe that any other country could show us how to do it better and we continue to do it 'our way' despite the obvious failures.

And we continue to move in directions that no one else is moving in despite their lower crime & incarceration rates. Also terribly 'American'.

If private prisons are publicly traded, then the reward is profit, not a reduction in crime or the other admirable goals that you mention. period.

Un-list them from the stock exchange and you might be able to legislate some goals for them. But then they do not necessarily become a profit center anymore, they become a government contractor or subsidiary or 'institution'....not based on profit - oh wait - that is what I am advocating anyway, that prisons should be a government entity. also period.

Yes what we have could be improved. What we will have if we privatize the majority of it will be a cluster fuck that we cannot afford to buy our way out of when it becomes unmanageable and the cost goes through the roof, both financially and the cost to society in the human damage.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I've always thought that prisons should be self supporting institutions. I think inmates should not have the time to be involved in drugs, gang activities etc. I think prisons should be microcasms of a world that would have been more conducive to developing the need to be productive and foster a willingness to contribute to society, as opposed to the parasitic pathology that many of the incarcerated grew up with. In short, fix what went wrong and show them a different path. Perhaps some type of an indentured arrangement after release, relocation and some hope for a better life.

[BillyVance 34]

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And they do a great job building or fixing homes. When I had my roof redone via Home Depot, the contractor had a team of Mexicans. Did my entire roof in one day, over 2500 sq ft. Looks awesome. They are usually more dependable than other races, plus even if they are paid below minimum wages, it's still more money than they could ever earn IN Mexico, so they are happy to earn it.

I would prefer, however, that they become legal immigrants and pay their fucking taxes like we do, because a lot of our tax money goes into covering social services for them.

On the other side... I've seen new homes built in subdivisions in my area, by illegal alien labor and in six months, they were falling apart.
Chuck

Hmmm, I guess the correct assessment would be, a construction team of illegals is only as good as the foreman or boss makes them be! I got lucky.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[masterrig 1]

I'm glad you did get lucky... fewer headaches!

I guess, they are no different from other workers... some are good... some aren't. Personally, I won't hire them or any crew with illegal labor, if, I can do it myself.


Chuck

[BillyVance 34]

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I'm glad you did get lucky... fewer headaches!

I guess, they are no different from other workers... some are good... some aren't. Personally, I won't hire them or any crew with illegal labor, if, I can do it myself.


Chuck

Exactly. If you want it done just the way you want it, and you can do it yourself, that's the way to go. I have taken a wall out (made sure it was not load-bearing), filled in a window opening, built a new wall, installed new windows and doors and laid down flooring and tiles. There's not much I haven't done.

The only things I don't mess with is water copper piping and electrical wiring where I need to add on or need a circuit breaker upgraded or added because I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[masterrig 1]

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I'm glad you did get lucky... fewer headaches!

I guess, they are no different from other workers... some are good... some aren't. Personally, I won't hire them or any crew with illegal labor, if, I can do it myself.


Chuck

Exactly. If you want it done just the way you want it, and you can do it yourself, that's the way to go. I have taken a wall out (made sure it was not load-bearing), filled in a window opening, built a new wall, installed new windows and doors and laid down flooring and tiles. There's not much I haven't done.

The only things I don't mess with is water copper piping and electrical wiring where I need to add on or need a circuit breaker upgraded or added because I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.

You too? I will not mess with electricity or plumbing. For one thing, there's so much 'code' involved and well... I know just enough to probably burn my danned house down! I did turn a back deck into a 'sun room'! Framed it, sided it and put in all the windows and panneling. I did have to get my neighbor to help me with the ceiling. I learned a lot as a kid, helping my mom and dad build our house when I was growing-up.


Chuck

[BillyVance 34]

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I'm glad you did get lucky... fewer headaches!

I guess, they are no different from other workers... some are good... some aren't. Personally, I won't hire them or any crew with illegal labor, if, I can do it myself.


Chuck

Exactly. If you want it done just the way you want it, and you can do it yourself, that's the way to go. I have taken a wall out (made sure it was not load-bearing), filled in a window opening, built a new wall, installed new windows and doors and laid down flooring and tiles. There's not much I haven't done.

The only things I don't mess with is water copper piping and electrical wiring where I need to add on or need a circuit breaker upgraded or added because I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.

You too? I will not mess with electricity or plumbing. For one thing, there's so much 'code' involved and well... I know just enough to probably burn my danned house down! I did turn a back deck into a 'sun room'! Framed it, sided it and put in all the windows and panneling. I did have to get my neighbor to help me with the ceiling. I learned a lot as a kid, helping my mom and dad build our house when I was growing-up.


Chuck

I have relocated electrical wiring when I needed to move a switch or ceiling mounted light, and replaced outlets/switches. That's it. I know to shut off the circuit breakers too. My wife on the other hand.... Thank fuck the screwdriver she was holding had a thick insulated handle!

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[masterrig 1]

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I'm glad you did get lucky... fewer headaches!

I guess, they are no different from other workers... some are good... some aren't. Personally, I won't hire them or any crew with illegal labor, if, I can do it myself.


Chuck

Exactly. If you want it done just the way you want it, and you can do it yourself, that's the way to go. I have taken a wall out (made sure it was not load-bearing), filled in a window opening, built a new wall, installed new windows and doors and laid down flooring and tiles. There's not much I haven't done.

The only things I don't mess with is water copper piping and electrical wiring where I need to add on or need a circuit breaker upgraded or added because I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.

You too? I will not mess with electricity or plumbing. For one thing, there's so much 'code' involved and well... I know just enough to probably burn my danned house down! I did turn a back deck into a 'sun room'! Framed it, sided it and put in all the windows and panneling. I did have to get my neighbor to help me with the ceiling. I learned a lot as a kid, helping my mom and dad build our house when I was growing-up.


Chuck

I have relocated electrical wiring when I needed to move a switch or ceiling mounted light, and replaced outlets/switches. That's it. I know to shut off the circuit breakers too. My wife on the other hand.... Thank fuck the screwdriver she was holding had a thick insulated handle!

Same here! When I added the 'sun room'. I extended the wiring from what had been an outdoor porch light. I ran the wiring after the room was finished and installed a ceiling fan. I ran the wiring to the ceiling fan through a conduit that is fastened to the ceiling. That's the extent of my electrical work. Yes, I turned-off the breaker!
The room is panelled in rough-cut wood panelling and rough-cut cedar trim. My wife loves it!


Chuck