460 0 #76 September 27, 2011 A question: Just a few years ago, some in the Louisiana state legislature proposed the death penalty for sex crimes, without the death of a victim. Is that justifiable? If so, what other crimes would you consider for capital punishment? Federally, espionage is punishable by the death penalty. Spies die. Perhaps so, since they have so much potential to destroy a country. But further assassins such as Oswald have used the Fuchs for example as martyrs to justify future political assassinations. On a side note, I have an acquaintance who was a public defender for death row cases. He said he believed the vast majority had committed their crime while pursuing exoneration for their crimes - were - guilty as hell. However, he said he encountered a few cases where that was not the case and he fully believed that innocent people were executed. He quit his profession because of this.Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #77 September 27, 2011 QuoteOn a side note, I have an acquaintance who was a public defender for death row cases. He said he believed the vast majority had committed their crime while pursuing exoneration for their crimes - were - guilty as hell.I used to have a friend who was a death penalty appeal lawyer. She said that the vast majority of her clients were, in fact, guilty. She also said that the vast majority had obvious and serious mental illness, or such awful backgrounds (i.e. child abuse, sexual abuse, abandonment -- as the start -- not the sum total of what happened), that had they had money for better representation, they'd've gotten off. But -- that didn't mean that she wanted them on the street. They were, by and large, sick fucks. Just that someone who, without any fault, has been raised in an environment that they never really had a significant chance to figure out right from wrong, it seems kind of unfair to them execute them for having lost in the parental sweepstakes. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #78 September 27, 2011 I just logged onto my dz.com account and noticed I had a message. I look and its a complete nasty gram cursing me out (basically from being from texas) and blaming me indicating I was the sole reason this person got banned. I was wondering why I was getting so much animosity out of the blue for no reason. But given the sourse I'm not suprised. I actually had some respect for this person because they had served our country honorably. So I guess the moral to the story is that NO MATTER what state you come from there are good people and bad ones. It whats on the inside that makes us human. Not where we reside at. You would be amazed at how many Obama stickers I see daily driving to work in Houston. There are many conservatives here to which I dont even agree with. Not that I am... my parents are, but even that doesnt comprise my political identity. But yet without knowing a single thing about me, I get blamed and called several bad names...just because Im from Texas. So to sum up I have just three words for my accusor. KARMA'S A BITCH!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #79 September 27, 2011 Dayum. I never have any fun, and not only am I from Texas, but I'm a liberal Texan -- everyone can hate me Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #80 September 27, 2011 QuoteWe have graduated punishments for a reason, because some crimes are more serious than others. If you treat the most heinous crimes as something less, then it sends the message to the criminals that they've got nothing to lose by behaving worse. And it insults the victim and his survivors by treating the attacker in a less serious manner than he deserves. If you sentenced murderers to the same weekend in prison that the above-mentioned pot smokers get, then I'm sure that a lot of people would take that as an opportunity to settle some scores. So now we are back to it being a deterrence. We have gone from deterrence, to justice, to deterrence. We have gone from trying to mix emotional arguments into data points. You are behaving exactly like many people you argue against on the gun side of things. Don't think Kerry flip flopped this much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #81 September 27, 2011 QuoteSo now we are back to it being a deterrence. We have gone from deterrence, to justice, to deterrence. We have gone from trying to mix emotional arguments into data points. You are behaving exactly like many people you argue against on the gun side of things. Don't think Kerry flip flopped this much. The inability to comprehend what I'm saying on your part, does not equate to flip-flopping on my part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #82 September 27, 2011 So is it about deterrence or is it about justice? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #83 September 27, 2011 QuoteSo is it about deterrence or is it about justice? Yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #84 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo is it about deterrence or is it about justice? Yes. Then I guess this part was just a lie: QuoteIt's not about deterrence, in my opinion, it's about justice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #85 September 27, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quoting a handful of states is NOT a statistical analysis. If you want to make a claim about correlation... Strawman argument. I made no such claim "There are exceptions all over the place, which means that there is no correlation." Sweet Jesus You're both comparing a "handful of states" to "exceptions all over the place". Two different things. And yet you brought up that handful of states as a direct reply to criticism of your statement that there was no correlation. I wonder why you did that if you thought the two points had nothing at all to do with each other? Quote Just two more people who like to sit around twiddling their thumbs and criticizing others, while offering nothing of their own. Sweet Jesus. Once again John, please feel free to come out and state that my position on this topic is not crystal clear. Go on, grow a pair and say it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #86 September 27, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quoting a handful of states is NOT a statistical analysis. If you want to make a claim about correlation... Strawman argument. I made no such claim "There are exceptions all over the place, which means that there is no correlation." Sweet Jesus You're both comparing a "handful of states" to "exceptions all over the place". Two different things. A few examples does not equal a statitical analysis, as claimed. They were just examples to illustrate the point, as stated. Data points that are shotgun pattern all over the place, do not make a correlation. Just two more people who like to sit around twiddling their thumbs and criticizing others, while offering nothing of their own. Sweet Jesus. You directly contradicted yourself in this thread; everyone can read it. Now you've adding weaseling.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #87 September 27, 2011 If you are a fiscal conservative, you would never want to be in a state with the death penalty. Kevin Cooper committed one of the most heinous crimes in California in 1983. He is still on death row after numerous very expensive appeals. What the states pay on a death penalty case would house the inmate for life, usually. There is also the ever so slight chance that the states could execute an innocent person. If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? The death penalty is not a deterent to anything. IMHO It's just a very expensive ordeal and a burden on the legal system. Most prosecuters don't want to try a DP case either. Our friend convicted Kevin Cooper. He has been in court for years at each appeal. I think the death penalty is a waste of time. Give them life. It also puts us in a third world mentality of executions. No matter what state you live in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #88 September 27, 2011 Quote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #89 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? Death for masturbating. Death for screwing your wife during her period. or any of the following: Adultery (Lev 20:10-12, (man and woman). Lying about virginity. Applies to girls who are still in their fathers' homes, who lie about their virginity, and are presented to their husband as a virgin. The accused is guilty until proved innocent. (Deut 22:20-21). Making love to a virgin pledged to be married to another. Applies to man who deflowers virgin pledged to be married, and to the virgin if she does not call for help. (Deut 22:23-24). The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire) (Lev 21:9). Rape of someone who is engaged. If she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels. No mention is made of the girl’s opinion. (Deut 22:25). Men practicing bestiality. (Both man and animal die). (Lev 20:15)[4] Women practicing bestiality (Both woman and animal die). (Lev 20:16) [4] Having sex with your father’s wife, as distinct from "your mother", as it was common practice for men at the time to have several wives. (both die). (Lev 20:20). Having sex with your daughter in law. (Lev 20:30) Incest. (Lev 20:17)[5] Male homosexuality. The girls seem to get a free... errrr ...ride on this one. (Lev 20:13). Marrying a woman and her daughter. They are all burnt to death (Lev 20:14) A couple of these demand that the "sinners" be burned to death rather than stoned — which was the more usual form of capital punishment. One can wonder why these crimes in particular merit this especially horrible fate. Worshiping idols (Ex 22:20, Lev 20:1-5, Deut 17:2-7). Blasphemy (Lev 24:14-16,23). Breaking the Sabbath (Ex 31:14, Numb 15:32-36). Practicing magic (Ex 22:18). Being a medium or spiritualist. (Stoning) (Lev 20:27). Trying to convert people to another religion. (stoning) (Deut 13:1-11, 18:20). Apostasy - If most people in a town come to believe in a different god. (Kill everybody, including animals, and burn the town.) (Deut 13:12-15) Giving one of your descents to Molech. Probably refers to human sacrifice and is not now commonly practiced in the west. (Lev 20:2) Non-priests going near the tabernacle when it is being moved. (Numb 1:51) Being a false prophet. (Deut 132:5, Deut 18:20, Zech 13:2-3) Striking your parents (Ex 21:15). Cursing your parents (Ex 21:17, Lev 20:9). Being a stubborn and rebellious son. And being a profligate and a drunkard. (stoning) (Quite a few of us might have a problem with this one)(Deut 21:18-21) [ Murder. However if a slave is beaten to death the owner is “punished” — not necessarily killed. If the slave survives the beating then there is no punishment. (Gen 9:6, Ex 21:12, Numb 35:16-21). This is part of a wide range of slavery laws in the Old and New Testament. Kidnapping and selling a man. This is really a law against making an Israelite a slave against his will. (Ex 21:16). Perjury (in certain cases) (Deut 19:15 - 21). Deut 19:20 explicitly identifies that the purpose of this is deterrence. "The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing (malicious and false testimony by one man against another) be done among you." Presumably all the other death penalties are assumed to be for deterrence as well. Ignoring the verdict of a judge – (or a priest!) (Deut 17:8-13). Not penning up a known dangerous bull, if the bull subsequently kills a man or a woman. (Ex 21:29) Both the animal and the reckless owner of the dangerous bull are to be put to death.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #90 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? I know that the 'ham' part of 'hamburger' confuses you, but hamburger is beef and not pork.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #91 September 27, 2011 >Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the >defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill. Matthew 5:38 - You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #92 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? I know that the 'ham' part of 'hamburger' confuses you, but hamburger is beef and not pork. Mixing dairy (cheese) and meat is not allowed. I realize that you may not know that cheese is a dairy product and that you are therefore confused.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #93 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? I know that the 'ham' part of 'hamburger' confuses you, but hamburger is beef and not pork. Instead of snipes at someone confusion, you should re-read yourself: he said cheeseburger. You know, the dairy/meat combo. Evil devil stuff.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #94 September 27, 2011 QuoteExodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill. Actually, the original wording was "Thou shalt not murder". Nice try. QuoteMatthew 5:38 - You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. Luke 22:36: He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Ezekiel 33:4: then if anyone hears the trumpet but does not take warning and the sword comes and takes his life, his blood will be on his own head. Psalms 144:1: Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalms 82:4: Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #95 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? I know that the 'ham' part of 'hamburger' confuses you, but hamburger is beef and not pork. Mixing dairy (cheese) and meat is not allowed. I realize that you may not know that cheese is a dairy product and that you are therefore confused. If I were Jewish, you might have a point - as it is... nope.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #96 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? I know that the 'ham' part of 'hamburger' confuses you, but hamburger is beef and not pork. Instead of snipes at someone confusion, you should re-read yourself: he said cheeseburger. You know, the dairy/meat combo. Evil devil stuff. He just picks and chooses which biblical verses to quote and which to ignore, based on his personal biases.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #97 September 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote If you are a christian, you are against the death penalty. Right? Wrong: Exodus 22:2: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Does that mean Christians also support selling their daughters into slavery and the death penalty for eating shrimp or a cheeseburger? I know that the 'ham' part of 'hamburger' confuses you, but hamburger is beef and not pork. Mixing dairy (cheese) and meat is not allowed. I realize that you may not know that cheese is a dairy product and that you are therefore confused. If I were Jewish, you might have a point - as it is... nope. SO quoting Exodus 22:2 to validate your position means that you, mnealtx, are Jewish?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #98 September 27, 2011 What the fuck does any of this stupid bantering back and forth have to do with Texas or its residents? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #99 September 27, 2011 QuoteWhat the fuck does any of this stupid bantering back and forth have to do with Texas or its residents? Ask the Texan who started quoting biblical verses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #100 September 27, 2011 Quote What the fuck does any of this stupid bantering back and forth have to do with Texas or its residents? That all you cheeseburger eating texans are going straight to hell.. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
