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Ramifications of USPS going out of business

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Question: do you think nothing should change down at the USPS regardless of how much money they lose? $9.2 billion deficits are awfully large for an organization that is seeing it's revenues shrink exponentially with no hope of ever recovering the business it may have once had in the past. But since the union feels they are entitled to their entitlements, who cares how much money is lost right?

Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
For the union makes us strong


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Question: do you think nothing should change down at the USPS regardless of how much money they lose?



I believe that the US Government ought to FUND the promises made to the people that worked and spent entire lives working under those promises as part of their compensation packages.

I'm fairly certain you'd be pissed off if some jackass decided to fuck with your pension that had been negotiated in good faith as part of an entire compensation package.

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But since the union feels they are entitled to their entitlements . . .



They ARE. If I made a deal with you, to pay you later for services rendered today and then attempted to back out of paying you after you'd worked for me for decades, I'm fairly certain you'd want to hold me to it saying you were entitled to the compensation and you know what, you'd be right.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I believe that the US Government ought to FUND the promises made to the people that worked and spent entire lives working under those promises as part of their compensation packages.



Spend spend spend ... who gives a flying fuck about the debt you hand down to future generations right? Is there any wonder why Obama makes GWB look like a fiscal conservative and we all know GWB was NOT a fiscal conservative. You do not give a flying fuck about how much debt your Messiah racks up just as long as you get your entitlements.

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I'm fairly certain you'd be pissed off if some jackass decided to fuck with your pension



I did not have unions take money from me, I negotiated my own compensation with the organizations I worked for and I funded my own pension so I need not worry about government reneging on a deal. Is it enough to retire on? That will depend on inflation and how long I live. But you are right about one thing, I am pissed that there are jackasses who are fucking with my future retirement. These jackasses come in many forms. Some of these jackasses are central bankers, some of these jackasses are wall street scum. But most of these jackasses are corrupt politicians, lawyers and media moguls.

Are you one of those types who believe that elections are bought by Big Oil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-i9C4Ct4-s


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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The mailmen I know get 70K a year, better health care plan than God, insane pensions, 5 weeks of paid vacation and 12 sick days a year.



This made me curious, so I looked it up; and (at the risk of offending the OP) I think your figures may be high:

By salary: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Salary

By vacation weeks: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Vacation_Weeks



I'm not exactly sure and can't google it right now, but does USPS employees get COLA and other "monetary" benefits similar to most federal employees?

http://postalwork.net/pay_scales.htm

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The mailmen I know get 70K a year, better health care plan than God, insane pensions, 5 weeks of paid vacation and 12 sick days a year.



This made me curious, so I looked it up; and (at the risk of offending the OP) I think your figures may be high:

By salary: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Salary

By vacation weeks: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Vacation_Weeks



Yep. He is on the high end of the scale. The guy I know has been a city deliverer for 22 years, Brighton, Ma which is part of Boston. The numbers you have do not account for overtime, either, which city carriers make, although temps and rural carriers do not.

Yes, he works outside in bad weather, Big deal. So do a large number of other trades. In fact most of my friends do and so do I, None of them get over 50K and no one I knows get 5 weeks paid vacation, the killer benefits and the pension.

Plus he takes 1.5 hours for lunch a day, and he can't be fired for anything less than murder, as far as I can tell.



So ... become a postman. Why moan about something that you have no control over (anyone elses job) - but you do have control over yours - exercise it.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
For the union makes us strong



We can ALL go jobless together when the company goes bankrupt and folds!
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
For the union makes us strong



We can ALL go jobless together when the company goes bankrupt and folds!



Or rather, when the government bails the company out, we'll squeeze more money out of that.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
For the union makes us strong



We can ALL go jobless together when the company goes bankrupt and folds!



Or rather, when the government bails the company out, we'll squeeze more money out of that.



Or get paid ahead of the valid creditors AND get part ownership....GM, anyone?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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I don't see any reason for the USPS to be gov owned and run.


You mean except for that whole thing in the US Constitution. Right?


snarky much?



You do realize that the USPS is one of the very few government agencies specifically addressed in the US Constitution; right? Not an Amendment that came later. Not even in the Bill of Rights, but it actually predates the Constitution itself and then is formalized in Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution.

If you're going to say that's "snarky" of me to mention it, I kinda have to assume you didn't know that.

So, don't go all Tea Party crazy trying to get rid of it.



Wow, look at you. "Sounding" like a strict constructionist (conservative) under the Enumerated Powers clause. The "Power to Establish" is also the power to restrict and has been used by the Supreme Court at least twice from my memory (once for alcohol and once for guns).Face-to-face, you and I could have a long and wonderful debate about the USPS and more importantly its use and abuse of the First and Fourth amendments, the reason for the Ninth & Tenth Amendments and eventually wind up in the lap of the EPA HR 450... I'll leave you with a couple of ditties since we don't have time for a formal debate...

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_7s7.html
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-post-office-as-a-violation-of-constitutional-rights/
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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I see. YOU don't actually have anything intelligent to add to the conversation, so you've decided to link these lengthy tomes of opinion by people with god-only-knows-what as their agenda when, in fact, the only thing of any relevance at all is the Constitution itself.

Brilliant.

Be careful what you wish for.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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The mailmen I know get 70K a year, better health care plan than God, insane pensions, 5 weeks of paid vacation and 12 sick days a year.



This made me curious, so I looked it up; and (at the risk of offending the OP) I think your figures may be high:

By salary: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Salary

By vacation weeks: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Vacation_Weeks



-------------------------------------------------
You're not gonna offend me...I have no dog in this fight, I just wanted to get some unbiased opinions about if this country would be better off with or without a government regulated postal service.

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I see. YOU don't actually have anything intelligent to add to the conversation, so you've decided to link these lengthy tomes of opinion by people with god-only-knows-what as their agenda when, in fact, the only thing of any relevance at all is the Constitution itself.

Brilliant.

Be careful what you wish for.



No I guess I don't. I thought I was engaging in some satirical banter and proposition that a debate with you at length rather than snippets on the Internet would be enjoyable for us both.

RE: [the only thing of any relevance at all is the Constitution itself].
I _think_ Mr. Story's tome of opinion and "God-only knows-what" agenda WAS the US Constitution while he was on SCOTUS and why he wrote the first link I posted.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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The mailmen I know get 70K a year, better health care plan than God, insane pensions, 5 weeks of paid vacation and 12 sick days a year.



This made me curious, so I looked it up; and (at the risk of offending the OP) I think your figures may be high:

By salary: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Salary

By vacation weeks: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=United_States_Postal_Worker_%28Carrier%29/Vacation_Weeks



Yep. He is on the high end of the scale. The guy I know has been a city deliverer for 22 years, Brighton, Ma which is part of Boston. The numbers you have do not account for overtime, either, which city carriers make, although temps and rural carriers do not.

Yes, he works outside in bad weather, Big deal. So do a large number of other trades. In fact most of my friends do and so do I, None of them get over 50K and no one I knows get 5 weeks paid vacation, the killer benefits and the pension.

Plus he takes 1.5 hours for lunch a day, and he can't be fired for anything less than murder, as far as I can tell.



So ... become a postman. Why moan about something that you have no control over (anyone elses job) - but you do have control over yours - exercise it.




I'm, not moaning at all. I'm telling you how much someone makes and why I think it's unsustainable. I don't think you can overpay a group of people for decades and then borrow billions from the federal government to pay off these promises.

And I would never, under any circumstances, work for a union.

One of the companies I worked for switched over to union, I told them to fuck off and started my own business.

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The post office is symbolic of whats wrong with the government as a whole. They charge more money every year and the basic service gets worse and worse. Frankly when I have a package to mail I use FEDEX or UPS....



Could have been talking about the one in the U.K too.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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The post office is symbolic of whats wrong with the government as a whole. They charge more money every year and the basic service gets worse and worse. Frankly when I have a package to mail I use FEDEX or UPS....



+1

Barring some catastrophic accident where there may be a plane crash on some remote tropical island where the lone survivor builds a personal relationship with a volleyball he finds, you know your package you sent through FedEx or UPS will also get to it's destination on time and it will not be lost.

Let's face it. Postal Services such as the USPS is losing revenue because it is losing business because people are either evolving with how their communicate with each other and conduct commerce, or losing business because people are losing confidence in the service. Postal Services such as the USPS can NOT continue on with the status quo. Eliminated Saturday delivery should be a no brainer. Heck here in the frozen north there is talk of 3 day delivery (which is meeting huge resistance by the union that controls our public Postal Service). But that is not enough. The USPS can not afford the work force that it has with it's generous public pension. It is just not sustainable.

It is really hilarious listening to Leftists make fun of the religious Right concerning not believing in evolution while at the same time these same Leftists ignore the way society is evolving right in front of their own eyes and refuse to adapt to an ever changing world. The world is changing and it is changing very fast. If you refuse to adapt to these changes, you will be left behind. Gone are the days where you get out of school, land a job for life complete with a fully indexed pension that you did not fund yourself. Start saving for that rainy day people and stop relying on someone else to give you your golden parachute at the end of the rainbow. Because it's not going to be there. The publicly funded golden parachute pensions are not sustainable.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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What about remote areas? The idea of a national postal system is to allow for relatively low rates throughout the country.

Sending a letter/small package weighing 250 grams from Toronto to Resolute Bay is $70.40 with Fedex and $3.22 with Canada Post.

I agree that the postal services around the world are due for some major changes. However, I do see some merit in a national mail delivery system that maintains a managable cost for all Canadians.

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What about remote areas?



Did I say anything about eliminating Postal Services? I don't think I did. If you have evidence of myself claiming Postal Services should be eliminated then please show me where I said this. I am human, I do make mistakes and my memory and my eye sight is not as good as it once was when I was younger.

I did however state that Postal Services need to adapt to an ever changing world, that they can not continue they way they are with the status quo. Cutting back on the days mail is delivered isn't going to kill anyone who is expecting mail. Cutting back on door to door delivery service for able bodied people in cities and suburbs is not going to kill anyone. In fact I do not get door to door mail delivery at my house. My mail is delivered to a super mail box around the corner from where I live. I don't even check my mail everyday. I usually only pick it up at the end of the week. Besides the only thing that is sent to me are bills, plenty of junk mail fliers and the occasional Christmas card from friends or relatives. During our recent mail strike I was proactive, I went on the websites of all the organizations that would send me bills, determined how much money I owed them, went online and paid my bill. I could even take it a step further in the future and have these companies send me my invoices online. Everyday door to door postal delivery for urban centers for able bodied people is not necessary in our modern ever changing world. It's inefficient and requires a much larger labour force than is needed. But you know unions will damn well fight to keep their dinosaur entitlements.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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I have a difficult time understanding the problem. If you are operating a business and you are not even making enough money to cover your costs you have 2 choices, raise prices or go out of business.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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I'm, not moaning at all. I'm telling you how much someone makes and why I think it's unsustainable. I don't think you can overpay a group of people for decades and then borrow billions from the federal government to pay off these promises.

.



Kind of like the bankers who made huge $(multi-million) bonuses while their banks were being bailed out by the Federal Govt.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I have a difficult time understanding the problem. If you are operating a business and you are not even making enough money to cover your costs you have 2 choices, raise prices or go out of business.



Or get bailed out like AIG.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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