Should the Military Unionize?

[jgoose71 0]

Quote

Hell NO!

So What happens when the London police decide that they aren't getting paid enough to handle this shit and go on strike?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Skyrad 0]

They legally can not go on strike. The Police federation gets involved and sorts it out with the government.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

They legally can not go on strike. The Police federation gets involved and sorts it out with the government.

In fact, it has been considered at the highest levels of the UK govt:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8038086/Police-offered-right-to-strike.html

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Police would be given the right to strike for the first time in 90 years in return for sacrificing their lucrative overtime payments and bonuses

NO way they'll go for that. They'd be crazy to.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[lawrocket 3]

The surest possible way to increase the US defense budget is to allow collective bargaining. Could you imagine the Service Employees America Union? Imagine the money that the union could make getting dues from every enlisted.

Could you even imagine? There'd be a union for E-3 and below. There'd have to be another for E-4 through E-6. Then E-7. And another for E-8. This is because there is a conflict between representing the Platoon Sergeant and the squad leader. And between First Sergeant and the Pltoon Sergeant.

Article 15 of the UCMJ? Hahahaha! A union wouldn't be able to tolerate this.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[nanook 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

With all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits.

Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain.

Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize?

No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation?

Which goes back to my original point, why do the Police or firefighters need a union? There are a lot of retired people in other public sector jobs that "need" unions.

I'm looking for more than "well, they are military..."

They are hired by cities and counties. different rules and regulations for each area. I believe their total wages or retirements may be negotiable. We are hired by the Federal Govt. One single big organization under one single set of rules.

Maybe if the military was unionized, our retirement would be better protected and we would have some ability to negotiate before it gets cut.

Interesting thing about that. Our retirement is US code (title 10, sub title A, part 2). Theirs is something that is a contract. Ours is law, thiers is contracts. Either/or, it wouldn't matter. Contracts can be negotiated and laws can be changed by vote.

Also, we would not be able to strike.

When people enlist, they sign a contract. Don't you think they should have some say before someone comes in and just decides to change the terms of that deal?

You don't sign anything that ever locks you with a retirement. The US Code is the only guarantor. Unfortuneate since that can be repealed at any time. Now, everyone, at their 15 years gets a chance to take a "Redux" or the default "High 3". That contract is the only thing that you will ever sign in the Service that has your name and type of retirement on the same sheet of paper. When the time comes, and you decide to go with the "High 3", still sign the doc stating the "High 3". You don't have to and let the time expire and default to your High 3, but, you wouldn't have signed a guarantee of either.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[firemedic 7]

I was a firefighter in South Carolina for 25 years. South Carolina being a "Right to Work" state unions are powerless. I was paid a decent wage that allowed me so buy a home, drive a decent automobile, have a pension and savings. It also included health and life insurance benefits. i.e., It was a salary that afforded me a comfortable living. I've often wondered what differences a union would have made. I do know one thing though. The property tax on my home in 1995 was $875 on a home with assessed value of $86,000. One of the guys I worked with was from Buffalo, NY. His father had a home there that had an assessed value of $95,000 and his property tax bill was $3500 that year. I'm fairly certain more services were provided by his city than mine provided. The Fire Department in Buffalo was Unionized and consequently more expensive. It is what it is. The one thing I am absolutely opposed to is allowing emergency services personnel to go on strike. When your life and/or are in jeopardy, a strike is the last thing anyone needs. Same thing for the military. The last thing you need a soldier to do is lay down his weapons if you're at war or attacked because your contract has expired and an agreement on a new one hasn't been reached. I know I've been a bit long winded but unionizing the military and emergency services isn't without many drawbacks. It goes well beyond the sentiment of "we deserve to be paid what we're worth."

[nanook 1]

Agreed.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,393]

>Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the
>line be allowed to unionize?

Personally I think it should be up to them. Allow people to unionize who want to; ensure there are no penalties for those who want to do so (and ensure there are no penalties for those who do NOT want to do so.)

[DanJohnson 0]

Quote

Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize?

Defenitley those who don't realize who butters their bread should unionize !

Riddle me this Batman:

When the union decides to go on strike .., and members of this union are deployed in hostile territory..,
just exactly who do you expect would come to extract union members?

Here is something else to consider; I can walk into any ghetto today and find hundreds of men who would love to get a gov't check to ride around in a hummer in the opium belt going on drive by shootings. Your skill just isn't all that rare.
You can easily be replaced and will be if you die or are seriously injured.

" OK strike. We found men to take your position.

You'll have to find your own way home and give us our weapons, our boots,our canteens, and our uniforms. You are on your own."

Still think unionizing is a good idea for military men?


"Military men are dumb ,stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" - Henry Kissinger

[nanook 1]

Quote

Here is something else to consider; I can walk into any ghetto today and find hundreds of men who would love to get a gov't check to ride around in a hummer in the opium belt going on drive by shootings. Your skill just isn't all that rare.
You can easily be replaced and will be if you die or are seriously injured.

We can easily be replaced because of the fact we train our replacements. Truth be told. . .most people cannot Serve. They usually are not healthy enough. We actually get college graduates we turn away because they cannot pass simple tests. You make huge assumptions about the Military because you don't know anything about it. I am positive you cannot survive our qualifications, tests, emotional or stamina requirements. You are not strong enough.

Tell me the true context of Kissenger's quote and where it is documented outside of rumor.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[grimmie 173]

Quote

I was a firefighter in South Carolina for 25 years. South Carolina being a "Right to Work" state unions are powerless. I was paid a decent wage that allowed me so buy a home, drive a decent automobile, have a pension and savings. It also included health and life insurance benefits. i.e., It was a salary that afforded me a comfortable living. I've often wondered what differences a union would have made. I do know one thing though. The property tax on my home in 1995 was $875 on a home with assessed value of $86,000. One of the guys I worked with was from Buffalo, NY. His father had a home there that had an assessed value of $95,000 and his property tax bill was $3500 that year. I'm fairly certain more services were provided by his city than mine provided. The Fire Department in Buffalo was Unionized and consequently more expensive. It is what it is. The one thing I am absolutely opposed to is allowing emergency services personnel to go on strike. When your life and/or are in jeopardy, a strike is the last thing anyone needs. Same thing for the military. The last thing you need a soldier to do is lay down his weapons if you're at war or attacked because your contract has expired and an agreement on a new one hasn't been reached. I know I've been a bit long winded but unionizing the military and emergency services isn't without many drawbacks. It goes well beyond the sentiment of "we deserve to be paid what we're worth."

Did you belong to the state's association?
http://www.scfirefighters.org/
You know you have greatly benefited over the years from the IAFF's work, even if you weren't a member.

Property taxes aren't high in Buffalo, NY because the firefighters are IAFF members. Have you ever been to that city?

I have worked as a union firefighter without a current contract. No one shirked their duties or went on strike. We even gave up 4% when the city wasted $136,000,000 on a new sports arena.

http://www.iaff.org/
I belonged to the IAFF for 31 years. The work they do for firefighter health,safety and education is outstanding.

A city has three jobs. Put out the fires, put the bad guys in jail and pick up the trash. Lots of cities, states, counties and towns have gone bust trying to do business deals. It's easy to blame lots on the employees.

[DanJohnson 0]

***Tell me the true context of Kissenger's quote and where it is documented outside of rumor.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

***Tell me the true context of Kissenger's quote and where it is documented outside of rumor.

Read "The Final Days" by Bernstein and Woodward

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Quote

Here is something else to consider; I can walk into any ghetto today and find hundreds of men who would love to get a gov't check to ride around in a hummer in the opium belt going on drive by shootings.

So why don't they?

Quote

Your skill just isn't all that rare.

The skill sets are rare, people just don't join the military and magicially know how to shoot, work on nuclear reactors, work in a stack, splice fiber and work on diesel engines.

Quote

You can easily be replaced and will be if you die or are seriously injured.

You are correct, but only after tens of thousands to millions of dollars are spent on training.

[grimmie 173]

You mean some gang banger just can't show up and drive a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. Who knew?

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Quote

You mean some gang banger just can't show up and drive a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. Who knew?

Depends, blue might not be his color 'n shit